Article: No Compensation for Qantas Catering Failures

[jase05]

Gate Gourmet is not owned by a foreign government, so yes, they were eligible if they met the financial requirements.

I think most flights are going out catered now - I've flown every week since Easter and all were catered. Seems to be MEL is a trouble spot for the catering issues, which is not surprising as didn't Victoria decrease in population over Covid? Something like that.

It's not like Qantas contracted this out to the cheapest bidder here - it's Emirates. QF could be forgiven for assuming that EK knows how to run an airline support business. If I were AJ I'd be having some closed door chats with Gate Gourmet right now, as surely DNATA have breached the contract by now.

Absolutely agree. Surely QF are due some compensation or are looking at a breach of contract termination clause

 

[jrfsp]

Gate Gourmet is not owned by a foreign government, so yes, they were eligible if they met the financial requirements.

I think most flights are going out catered now - I've flown every week since Easter and all were catered. Seems to be MEL is a trouble spot for the catering issues, which is not surprising as didn't Victoria decrease in population over Covid? Something like that.

It's not like Qantas contracted this out to the cheapest bidder here - it's Emirates. QF could be forgiven for assuming that EK knows how to run an airline support business. If I were AJ I'd be having some closed door chats with Gate Gourmet right now, as surely DNATA have breached the contract by now.

Same as why there are no ground staff.

Made permanent employees redundant, now during a labour shortage turns out no one wants to work for minimum wage on a zero hour contract - who'd have thought it!

 

[justinbrett]

Same as why there are no ground staff.

Made permanent employees redundant, now during a labour shortage turns out no one wants to work for minimum wage on a zero hour contract - who'd have thought it!

It's not the same at all.

They never outsourced catering. They sold their business as a package (like they sold QBT years ago). And it was running fine from when they sold it up until Covid. I'd hazard a guess most people didn't even notice. I didn't (I knew it happened, but I never noticed a change).

There is an argument to be had about ground handling, as this was a decision taken during covid - so QF owns some of the blame for the mess it was in (though apparently there's no shortage of staff, it's just that staff were calling in sick - I guess we'll see long term).

But then again this isn't just a QF problem - noticed it everywhere when I was in the US earlier this year - not enough workers anywhere. I saw a Burger King offering US$17/hour. A TGI Fridays advertised job guaranteed if you turned up to the interview. The great resignation as they say.

 

[stm1sydney]

C'mon man, no-one gives a toss whether it was technically an outsourcing or not. We just know that QF has stuffed up catering and its pax, particularly its premium pax, are not being fed. We also know that QF is ignoring complaints and not offering compensation, which in the opinion of many, is another symptom of QF treating its pax with contempt.

 

[justinbrett]

C'mon man, no-one gives a toss whether it was technically an outsourcing or not. We just know that QF has stuffed up catering and its pax, particularly its premium pax, are not being fed. We also know that QF is ignoring complaints and not offering compensation, which in the opinion of many, is another symptom of QF treating its pax with contempt.

How did Qantas "stuff up catering"? DNATA stuffed up catering.

How many flights are going out without catering?

 

[RooFlyer]

How would QF know if they were AFF members?

Do'h! Edited - thanks

It's not like Qantas contracted this out to the cheapest bidder here - it's Emirates. QF could be forgiven for assuming that EK knows how to run an airline support business. If I were AJ I'd be having some closed door chats with Gate Gourmet right now, as surely DNATA have breached the contract by now.

I agree ... and hopefully AJ, or someone is trying to climb out of the shermozzle. But the point is, its now obvious that EK either doesn't know how to run an airline support business, or doesn't care or hasn't the wit to anticipate covid-related issues (on foot for ... 2 years now; 'post covid open borders, 5 months) - but given that, its up to Qantas management to look after its interests in the face of the dire performance of the other mob by putting contingencies in - which, I reckon any airline should have some sort of contingency plan in place, at least at major hubs, at any time. But, even if they can't do that, after this length of time, its not unreasonable to think that they cold just put balnket compo in for affected flights.

 

[RooFlyer]

Absolutely agree. Surely QF are due some compensation or are looking at a breach of contract termination clause

I raised that up-thread. Damage to reputation too. If they do get compo, be sure Qantas will trouser it and the affected passengers will be still be stiffed.

 

[justinbrett]

I agree ... and hopefully AJ, or someone is trying to climb out of the shermozzle. But the point is, its now obvious that EK either doesn't know how to run an airline support business, or doesn't care or hasn't the wit to anticipate covid-related issues (on foot for ... 2 years now; 'post covid open borders, 5 months) - but given that, its up to Qantas management to look after its interestes in the face of the dire performance of the other mob by putting contingencies in - which, I reckon any airline should have some sort of contingency plan in place, at least at major hubs, at any time. But, even if they can't do that, after this length of time, its not unreasonable to think that they cold just put balnket compo in for affected flights.

We don't know what's happening in the boardrooms. It might be that QF is waiting for compensation from EK before deciding if/how it will compensate pax. I'm sure they've been having stern words if nothing else.

I think it's unfair to say nothing has changed - certainly it hit the fan at Easter (but even then wasn't universal) - but a month on we're seeing fewer and fewer reports. The one about the lost driver today is kind of a separate issue - could have happened to any airline at any airport - more a reflection of the new staff they've just hired.

I would say DNATA are working pretty hard to fix because surely their contract is at risk otherwise.

It also does appear that QF is prioritising J catering at the expense of Y - which I guess they can do when VA don't offer free meals in Y.

 

[dajop]

How did Qantas "stuff up catering"? DNATA stuffed up catering.

As far as the customer goes, Qantas stuffed up the catering. The customer doesn't, and shouldn't , care that it was DNATA that actually provided the catering service. The company I work for outsources a lot of production to toll manufacturers, or partners, but if the wrong thing ends up in customers hands we're not going to publicly point the finger at the toll manufacturer and say "oh look it's all their fault" (Privately, of course we'll either sack the manufacturer, seek compensation from them and/or work with them to make sure it can't happen again, depending on how important they are).

That sort of blame shifting only works for politicians.

 

[justinbrett]

As far as the customer goes, Qantas stuffed up the catering. The customer doesn't, and shouldn't , care that it was DNATA that actually provided the catering service. The company I work for outsources a lot of production to toll manufacturers, or partners, but if the wrong thing ends up in customers hands we're not going to publicly point the finger at the toll manufacturer and say "oh look it's all their fault" (Privately, of course we'll either sack the manufacturer, seek compensation from them and/or work with them to make sure it can't happen again, depending on how important they are).

That sort of blame shifting only works for politicians.

But I don't think QF have blamed DNATA/EK publicly. I'm not even sure the catering issue has made the mainstream news - baggage has, I haven't seen much on catering - maybe a passing comment.

However, we are educated frequent flyers here, we can apportion the blame where its deserved.

QF did (wrongly IMO) take responsibility for the security queues when they should have just blamed the airports (as it equally effected other airlines). I guess you don't want to burn your supplier when they're the only one available.

 

[Melburnian1]

QF did (wrongly IMO) take responsibility for the security queues when they should have just blamed the airports (as it equally effected other airlines). I guess you don't want to burn your supplier when they're the only one available.

You're rewriting history: the QF CEO blamed passengers for not being 'match fit', at least initially.

With airline catering: we all appreciate it's high volume, but outside of operations like DNATA's, there are specialist event caterers (the likes of Peter Rowland) who (provided they have or can find the staff) would be only too happy to churn out many meals, and a variety of bakeries can easily provide snacks, although like most manufacturers they need notice.

If non-aviation caterers can meet demand for 1000 multi-course, high value and complex meals at a function hosted at Crown Casino, it's highly likely they can meet airline demands (although one might need to engage more than one caterer).

You were correct re Victoria: in the last measured six months, Melbourne lost 60000 residents, of whom around 15000 moved to country Victoria and 45000 either interstate (principally to Qld) or overseas.

 

[dajop]

You were correct re Victoria: in the last measured six months, Melbourne lost 60000 residents, of whom around 15000 moved to country Victoria and 45000 either interstate (principally to Qld) or overseas.

Although this is being/has been mirrored in Sydney too, so can't be the sole explanation as to why MEL catering has been plagued with more problems than SYD.

Victoria and New South Wales to lose people to other states after COVID lockdowns

New population data forecasts that Victoria and New South Wales will be the only states not to benefit from interstate migration over the next year, as Queensland and other states welcome more new residents.

www.abc.net.au

Regional internal migration estimates, provisional, March 2021

Provisional statistics on internal migration at state/territory and capital city levels

www.abs.gov.au

 

[justinbrett]

You're rewriting history: the QF CEO blamed passengers for not being 'match fit', at least initially.

He made an observation, which I can verify to be true. He also said he himself was not match fit, having left his passport in a safe. There was no malice in the comments, it was a perfectly valid observation. The other day I was boarding and someone got to the front of the queue and didn't even have their mobile phone in hand. We had to wait for her to get it out of her pocket, unlock, then open up the BP.

But he definitely apologised to QF passengers on behalf of the airports for the security delays.

With airline catering: we all appreciate it's high volume, but outside of operations like DNATA's, there are specialist event caterers (the likes of Peter Rowland) who (provided they have or can find the staff) would be only too happy to churn out many meals, and a variety of bakeries can easily provide snacks, although like most manufacturers they need notice.

I'm sure the contract would have something to say about using an additional catering company. I think it's already on the way up. I got my spirits back so I'm happy (and have had a hot meal on every flight). But I have not flown through MEL. I will be next weekend, let's see what happens...

 

[CMA222]

Same. I was on a flight from Brisbane to Sydney and no meal or even drink was served

So a QF flight at a QF price, with OneStar (JQ) service. [Ignore the oxymoron OneStar and Service]

 

[Cheatah]

How did Qantas "stuff up catering"? DNATA stuffed up catering.

How many flights are going out without catering?

How do you know its DNATA? They may have supplier issues of their own (ie labour hire companies) so it could be those DNATA suppliers we should be blaming...

..,of course in the real world Qantas is responsible. How they fulfil their service proposition is entirely up to them, including any outsourcing of delivery.

The idea that Qantas has not outsourced its catering is incorrect - yes they sold QF Catering and in turn have contracted the new owner to deliver catering services. The fact they did a "sell and buy back" type deal doesnt mean its not outsourced - its still not being sourced by QF, its being sourced from "out"side the organisation.

 

[justinbrett]

How do you know its DNATA? They may have supplier issues of their own (ie labour hire companies) so it could be those DNATA suppliers we should be blaming...

..,of course in the real world Qantas is responsible. How they fulfil their service proposition is entirely up to them, including any outsourcing of delivery.

I take your point and yes it's up to QF to fix it now - which may involve changing contractors if this drags on (I don't think it will - I think it's already largely resolved, still seems to be issues specific to MEL) but if we as frequent flyers want to have an accurate debate about the situation, ranting that Qantas is a cough airline because the catering company can't deliver is a pretty inaccurate way to view it. It could have just as easily have happened to VA if the contracts were reversed - although the effects would be far less for VA as they don't do free food in Y.

The idea that Qantas has not outsourced its catering is incorrect - yes they sold QF Catering and in turn have contracted the new owner to deliver catering services. The fact they did a "sell and buy back" type deal doesnt mean its not outsourced - its still not being sourced by QF, its being sourced from "out"side the organisation.

OK that's semantically correct but out of context in that the business was operating fine independently of QF before covid. The act of separation from QF did not cause these issues especially because functionally it was the same people doing the same jobs for the same company, just owned by a different stakeholder.

That's quite different to what happened with the ground handling contract.

Yes in the long term the end result is the same, but there's far less risk in the way they transitioned the catering services vs the ground handling.

 

[sudoer]

A friend flew SYD-MQL vv this week, no catering whatsoever (inc tea & coffee), just water in a plastic cup. Dash 8 so Y only but still pretty weak for a 2 hour flight.

 

[N860CR]

Same as why there are no ground staff.

Made permanent employees redundant, now during a labour shortage turns out no one wants to work for minimum wage on a zero hour contract - who'd have thought it!

If only the government had the foresight to put some kind of support plan in place where workers were paid a small amount to remain on the books. I bet AJ is clutching the blanket like a boomer during 2020 and crying “Why scomo why!!!! You could have prevented all of this by giving us some kind of support, yet you left us to wither and die like during the days of no potatoes!”

I digress… I was qantas platinum for many years. And virgin for that matter. While the first lounge was nice, having to roll the dice on the standard of qantas flight I’d walk onto wasn’t by worth it. A few too many QF horror crews and then having some major customer service stuff ups made me come to a realization; The best way to travel is to go to Skyscanner, put in my origin and destination and select the airline that has the best fare and most suitable travel time. Haven’t looked back, and other than the occasional visit to the F Lounge, not having status means SFA.

 

[Anna]

I recently experienced a QF flight in J with no food loaded. Luckily it was only ADL MEL. So I had low expectations on my Y flights ADL PER SIN, but as it turned out I was quite happy with the food. On the 6.15am flight to PER we got something in a box that was a bit eggy, a bit cheesy, served with baked beans, was hot and really hit the spot for that time on a Sunday after 4 hours sleep.

On PER SIN, there was a drinks service before the meal and I could have had a gin and tonic if I'd wanted. I thought they'd abolished the drinks service in Y long ago so this was a welcome surprise. Then there were 3 food choices, red curry chicken, beef noodles or a veg option which I think was pasta. I had the chicken and it was quite nice, served with warm garlic bread. Small portion but adequate. Then we got a chocolate paddle pop, then with tea or coffee there was a TimTam each.

That was it, there was nothing offered in Y before landing and I was a bit peckish so I ate the sandwich I'd packed in case of QF catering failures. (Was glad I did, because there were no taxis on arrival in SIN so I elected to take the MRT which involved a schlep with bags to a different terminal and then took 45 mins on the MRT itself, and I'd have been starving by the time I got to the hotel otherwise).

But all in all I had no real complaints about the food in int Y. It seems like it may be MEL catering which is the basket case?

 

[Miksmith]

As a data point, our family of 5 on a Mel to Lax Qf flight in Y a few years ago received 5K pts each as they could not serve a hot breakfast before landing as the refrigerator had broken and the crew were advised not to serve the food. I think I did email Qf customer service for the compensation. I was very happy with the 25K points compensation. I guess times have indeed changed...

I flew the reverse on 18 July this year and the refrigeration is still broken.