Article: Qantas Pleased with Classic Plus Uptake

[levelnine]

How is that any different to fighting on day 353 which was the old system?

My wager would be that, in sum, the batch releases amount to far fewer seats than the old 12 month release system. It should be remembered that not all batch releases include all routes. While there might be 1-3 per year, only 1 might include the most in-demand locations.

As I said, I think some of that is being made up by release requests, but impossible to say to what extent.

Post automatically merged: Jul 17, 2024

Except that you have a $100k gift card valid for that store only. So you'll probably sleep on it then come back the next day and but it anyway.

To continue to torture this metaphor, the real question is whether consumers are going to continue buying gift cards in the program after experiencing that bad taste.

That's the true test of the CR+ program.

 

[sudoer]

How is that any different to fighting on day 353 which was the old system?

Day 353 was only available to QFF SG and higher which is a small slice of the QFF pie.

A batch release 4 months prior to departure gets released to all QFFs simultaneously.

 

[justinbrett]

Day 353 was only available to QFF SG and higher which is a small slice of the QFF pie.

A batch release 4 months prior to departure gets released to all QFFs simultaneously.

But it does get released, which is my point.

It's just conjecture that CR+ has lead to fewer seats being released, and IMO it's a flawed argument since the seat release pattern changed years before CR+ was even floated.

 

[Neil64]

including a breakdown of being on Qantas metal versus OneWorld and other partners such as China

Trouble is everyone wants seats on prime routes and if any are available they get snapped up quickly. As I posted the other day there is award availability nearly every day on UL out of Australia and onwards plus plenty on BA, EK, CX etc from Asia or Europe but those routes obviously don’t interest people

Spin that would make Qantas Marketing shed a tear of joy.

For anyone interested in the truth, here is SYD-LAX J availability on Qantas for the next year.

A more accurate figure would be 11/365.

There is no point to this argument. Those who are deemed to have the burden of proof instantly lose because no one has access to definitive data on how many CR

I think people would still complain even if they released this information

To be honest, I suspect it's more than likely the amount of long-haul business seats being released hasn't decreased. It's the growth in QFF members, and probably just as importantly, more and more people being into "point hacking" and actually spending their points on high-value redemptions, such as business seats.

It's hard to have any hard numbers for the latter point, but anecdotally from my friends and colleagues it looks like a lot more people are churning credit cards etc. to get that elusive business class redemption now vs. pre-covid or even before that. Previously people would be members of QFF, but would likely just redeem a few economy flights and/or toasters. And no, it's not me introducing them to this world (I don't talk about it that much), it's them coming across it on social media (e.g. TikTok influencers peddling credit cards) and then coming to me for advice since they know I fly a lot and know the FF programs well.

Of course, the end outcome is the same for us regardless, but it certainly matters for Qantas Loyalty's bottom line. If you're getting a lot more points being purchased by banks for credit cards etc. but aren't increasing availability of your most expensive* redemption (Classic Rewards), then that's an easy path to Loyalty's current growth... well, until people catch on that the availability doesn't match their expectations.

*expensive as in the cost to Qantas Loyalty

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As for the original article, I think it would be good to have a section on the general feelings of AFF members towards CR

I think people would still complain even if they released this information

To be honest, I suspect it's more than likely the amount of long-haul business seats being released hasn't decreased. It's the growth in QFF members, and probably just as importantly, more and more people being into "point hacking" and actually spending their points on high-value redemptions, such as business seats.

It's hard to have any hard numbers for the latter point, but anecdotally from my friends and colleagues it looks like a lot more people are churning credit cards etc. to get that elusive business class redemption now vs. pre-covid or even before that. Previously people would be members of QFF, but would likely just redeem a few economy flights and/or toasters. And no, it's not me introducing them to this world (I don't talk about it that much), it's them coming across it on social media (e.g. TikTok influencers peddling credit cards) and then coming to me for advice since they know I fly a lot and know the FF programs well.

Of course, the end outcome is the same for us regardless, but it certainly matters for Qantas Loyalty's bottom line. If you're getting a lot more points being purchased by banks for credit cards etc. but aren't increasing availability of your most expensive* redemption (Classic Rewards), then that's an easy path to Loyalty's current growth... well, until people catch on that the availability doesn't match their expectations.

*expensive as in the cost to Qantas Loyalty

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As for the original article, I think it would be good to have a section on the general feelings of AFF members towards CR+

I agree with most of what you’ve said but beg to differ with the premise that the rise in QFF membership and greater awareness of the benefits could be the reason why premium long haul CR seats are more difficult, if not impossible, to come by. Assuming most people posting comments here are experienced frequent flyers, one would think that we would be far more skilled at snagging those holy grail seats than newcomers. And yet, despite using all the tricks in the book, it’s virtually impossible to find long haul premium CR seats unless you’ve woken up this morning thinking you fancy flying to Europe next week.

 

[Gold Member]

And yet, despite using all the tricks in the book, it’s virtually impossible to find long haul premium CR seats unless you’ve woken up this morning thinking you fancy flying to Europe next week.

If you are Chairman’s Lounge (don’t get me started on the merits of that legalised political corruption scheme), Platinum One, or even just a lowly Platinum, you have a good chance of securing a CR via an unpublished status “REQUEST” benefit. But what percentage of the QFF membership base do these status tiers represent? Maybe 1%? Surely some of us who like to defend Qantas using published facts and BITRE stats can enlighten us.

Anecdotal evidence from hundreds of AFF members (and across many other social forums) have observed that Classic Rewards are now even more difficult since the inception of Classic Plus. Want to debate that using facts provided by Qantas? Well, we can’t, because Qantas don’t want us to know the truth and won’t publish a clear breakdown because they know it will show them up. Why not claim there are cheap CRs to NZ on select days instead? Surely that will appease every QFF member and fix everything, right? Still don’t believe Qantas is taking us for a ride (assuming the flight wasn’t cancelled)? Just remember, this is the very same National Carrier that our sponsored AFF accounts laud despite their proven corrupt and deceitful behaviour over many years.

For the rest of us mere mortals representing 99% of QFF members, good luck finding those long haul Business Classic Rewards to Europe. With the ever growing Corporate greed of C-Suite and Directors to line their pockets with incentive bonuses and grow profits via Customer disLoyalty (all in the name of fulfilling Shareholder obligations), the future for Qantas Classic Rewards and QFF overall looks bleak.

 

[encryptededdy]

Assuming most people posting comments here are experienced frequent flyers, one would think that we would be far more skilled at snagging those holy grail seats than newcomers. And yet, despite using all the tricks in the book, it’s virtually impossible to find long haul premium CR seats unless you’ve woken up this morning thinking you fancy flying to Europe next week.

I think the move to random releases vs. fixed 3xx days out does actually make it easier for newcomers and worse for those more experienced as it's now an even playing ground - you can't plan for the release, and also the benefit for Gold and Silver members having early access is eroded. The only thing you need to "know" is remain subscribed to the emails of point hacks / ET etc. or be a member of one of the many QFF facebook groups, and you'll be notified as soon as a new batch of CRs drop. Also the availability/ease of use of award search alerting tools have become a lot more widespread compared to years ago.

I also think it's important to differentiate between seats released by Qantas and seats made available to QFFers. Absolutely the latter has decreased especially on popular routes like Europe due to changes by other carriers such as QR & CX pulling most of their availability and EK introducing extremely high carrier charges. I get the impression that even 5 years ago, a lot of QFF bookings to Europe in premium class would be on non-QF aircraft.

Of course as noted the end result is the same for us, but I suspect it will cost QF(F) a lot more to release more seats on these routes to their own customers to plug this gap in terms of lost potential revenue seats vs. however much they paid their partners for these seats.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If I was buying a car worth $50k and the car dealer said I’ll sell it to you for $100k I’d walk out without purchasing it. Classic Plus Rewards leave a similar bad taste.

But award seats are seats the airline was never going to sell. These days, those are rare.

CR+ is allowing us, at a reasonable rate - compared to points plus pay - to access a whole bunch more seats.

Perhaps the name shouldn’t be associated with ‘awards’, because i think they are quite separate products.

 

[SydneySwan]

But award seats are seats the airline was never going to sell. These days, those are rare.

CR+ is allowing us, at a reasonable rate - compared to points plus pay - to access a whole bunch more seats.

Perhaps the name should be associated with ‘awards’, because i think they are quite separate products.

Perhaps Qantas should have just said they are revamping 'Points plus Pay' providing better value than the previous iteration. That would have been a marketing winner and we wouldn't be debating the devaluation of CR into CR+.

 

[encryptededdy]

Perhaps Qantas should have just said they are revamping 'Points plus Pay' providing better value than the previous iteration. That would have been a marketing winner and we wouldn't be debating the devaluation of CR into CR+.

I guess the complexity is that CR+ is only supported on certain fare classes and has a cash payment component, which would complicate Points plus Pay.

Speaking of which, I wonder why they added these to CR+. I can only assume it's to show a lower points number, but I'm not sure about the fare class restriction. Surely if someone wants to redeem 500k+ points on Flex J then let them do it?

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I would love transparency from Qantas, but alas that would, no doubt, be an own goal. I would also love transparency from other large corporations turning hundreds of millions to billions in profit each year. Highly unlikely we will ever be privy to that information. What we need is a Qantas whistleblower. Assange is back in country, they can hand the info over to him to publish

Other airlines guarantee reward seats on their flights, why can't Qantas? BA award seat guarantee. Qantas is so damned stingy. Why is it you have more likelihood of using QFF points for a reward seat on a partner airline internationally than using them with the airline you earn them with. There is a really big problem there and I'm surprised Qantas can't see the issue themselves. It must be cheaper for Qantas to buy you a seat on another carrier and give it away to you via points than it is losing the revenue they would get selling a cash seat on their own flight. Make money lose goodwill, but who needs goodwill when you made $2.5B profit right!

I won't go into detail on a public forum but I believe QF when they say they are releasing more award seats than ever before.

The reason you can't find those seats is a combination of:
- Increased organic demand for award seats
- Mileage brokers
- Bots
- Global economy
- Unlimited miles creation in some markets
- Intra-airline loyalty profit sharing
- High-status holders with unlimited points
- QF not knowing how to control some or all of the above

There are plenty of biz class award seats on key routes available right now.
But you'd never know it, and they don't show up in the search engines.

QF knows this is happening (folks not being able to find availability or book anything) by the type of requests hitting the IBE and other APIs.
As others have pointed out in this thread, some airlines get hit harder than others (eg: QR, AY). Fraud, which plays part of the issue at hand, is at a record high and airlines, including QF, sadly, are always behind trying to play catch up.

What this ultimately means for you and me and millions of Australians is that HOW you look for award flights in 2024 is vastly different to HOW you looked for redemptions a few years ago.

So don't blame QF for 'not releasing seats'.
They are releasing those seats.

You aint fast enough to snag them.

 

[Neil64]

I won't go into detail on a public forum but I believe QF when they say they are releasing more award seats than ever before.

The reason you can't find those seats is a combination of:
- Increased organic demand for award seats
- Mileage brokers
- Bots
- Global economy
- Unlimited miles creation in some markets
- Intra-airline loyalty profit sharing
- High-status holders with unlimited points
- QF not knowing how to control some or all of the above

There are plenty of biz class award seats on key routes available right now.
But you'd never know it, and they don't show up in the search engines.

QF knows this is happening (folks not being able to find availability or book anything) by the type of requests hitting the IBE and other APIs.
As others have pointed out in this thread, some airlines get hit harder than others (eg: QR, AY). Fraud, which plays part of the issue at hand, is at a record high and airlines, including QF, sadly, are always behind trying to play catch up.

What this ultimately means for you and me and millions of Australians is that HOW you look for award flights in 2024 is vastly different to HOW you looked for redemptions a few years ago.

So don't blame QF for 'not releasing seats'.
They are releasing those seats.

You aint fast enough to snag them.

I won't go into detail on a public forum but I don’t believe QF when they say they are releasing more award seats than ever before. Especially not in business class on long haul flights, which was the main point of one of the comments that triggered this thread. But in the end it doesn’t really matter what anyone says. If QFF members are finding it increasingly hard to find premium long-haul seats, for whatever reason, then there’s very little that can be done about it other than preference a different FF program, which is what I’ve chosen to do.