Article: Qantas Points “The Envy of the World”? Absolutely Not!

[Jo145]

Did you use QFF points or AA points to make the booking? If you used QFF points, can you see the booking on your QFF profile? (I'm confused why you would expect to see a booking made with your QFF number appearing under your AA number? If that's what you're expecting).

Thanks for responding. I made it with QFF points and later contacted AA for their record locator but I have an AAdvantage account and thought it should show on that. Must be wrong... definitely have the QF itinerary. As I mentioned, I'm currently not a FF due to the pandemic. This will be my first trip OS in a long time and given all the issues people are having with Qantas I was just checking my options.

 

[AshM]

Spot on - and kudos to you for calling it like it is, Matt.

Even in the rare event that you can redeem points for seats you want in a premium cabin, the chances of those flights going ahead as planned are very hit and miss. And God help you if you need to deal with the call centre on any changes to reward bookings, let alone complex ones, regardless of whether those changes are initiated by you or by Qantas.

I write this from a business seat on a twice-rescheduled flight from NYC to London purchased with Qantas points. Fortunately the NYC to London route is well served, with loads of reward seats, but even then I had to plead my case very assertively to a clueless call centre representative who initially said no alternative flights were available when my flight was cancelled barely a week ago.

And this was the easy bit! Don’t get me started on the real dramas with this ticket over many many months…

 

[kiplingrob]

Couldn't agree more with this article. Tried searching for availability to Europe at the 353 day mark, as a Platinum, and found zero availability on any Qantas or Emirates flights, and virtually nothing on Oneworld partners. Plenty on Krisflyer, so I'm directing my spending and flying in that direction from now on.

Great article. I switched my flying to other airlines sometime ago, mainly to SIA and CX which have a much better business class product and Krisflyer a better award availability. Have also switched points cards away from Qantas. 800000 plus Qantas points and never managed to find a business class award seat.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Good article @AFF Editor and many valid points raised.

From my own perspective QFF is a good program for me due to my own set of circumstances and my ability to use my points.

In the past 12 months I have redeemed points/miles for long haul premium cabin travel with QF, BA, AA and SQ.
KF/SQ has been the easiest in terms of finding the seats and easy online booking process.
BA/AA have similar issues to QF due to availability and AA has multiple phantom awards etc. But in general they are cheaper to redeem with less Avios/ Miles and co-pay than the identical equivalent award using QFF.

The reason QFF works for me is that living in Australia it’s by far the easiest points currency to obtain.
I also earn a reasonable proportion of my points through flying so it makes sense for me to consolidate the flying and on the ground points to the same program.
I do also warehouse points in Amex for SQ etc and transfer as necessary.

I don’t have the phone issues because as P1 I have a different number and access to the VIP team.
I can access Award seat releases. In the past 6 months I have had LHR-SYD and a SYD-LAX J return released as Classic Awards when there was no availability on any airline rewards program.
I have used my points for Y-J long haul upgrades for family members.
I booked a last minute MEL-SYD Y seat for 8K and $40. The revenue fare at the time was $440. Anyone could have booked that fare though it wasn’t a seat release for me.

I suppose I’m likely one of the golden handcuffs QFF.
There is no doubt that QFF is a massive earner for QF and why it would be getting talked up at a Business meeting by the CEO.

But it isn’t all bad news for all customers. Certainly not me or my family.

 

[cbreeze]

The part about the call centre being a joke is what really resonated with me in this article.

I got routed to the Cape Town call centre and their blatant incorrect answers are unbelievable. I asked about upgrading my flight (domestic in AU, granted) from economy to business by doing a points upgrade. They told me my upgrade has hit a manual queue and I will receive an email within a week. That was 3 months ago.

After doing some googling around I realised that my economy upgrade on Qantas will only be confirmed as a points upgrade a few days before the flight (and only if others at a higher status level, etc don't book them first).

I am not upset at not being able to get an upgrade - that is ok. It is a risk that it might not happen and I know that's fine if others booked ahead of me, all good.

But the lack of knowledge that call centre staff have that they're either not trained properly or reading from incorrect information or just saying anything to get you off the phone quickly, perhaps? That is not cool.

 

[mviy]

QF blaming call centre problems on COVID when they existed prior to COVID is infuriating. It would be nice if they would have the courtesy to be honest about their problems.

I am chasing LTG so I am locked in to QF at the moment, but if/when I reach LTG I will then reassess.

I guess I might try and request seat releases to/from LHR in J/F as a WP. I do have plenty of points. I guess I could get them to try several dates and then several more different dates if those don't work out and keep going.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The part about the call centre being a joke is what really resonated with me in this article.

I got routed to the Cape Town call centre and their blatant incorrect answers are unbelievable. I asked about upgrading my flight (domestic in AU, granted) from economy to business by doing a points upgrade. They told me my upgrade has hit a manual queue and I will receive an email within a week. That was 3 months ago.

After doing some googling around I realised that my economy upgrade on Qantas will only be confirmed as a points upgrade a few days before the flight (and only if others at a higher status level, etc don't book them first).

I am not upset at not being able to get an upgrade - that is ok. It is a risk that it might not happen and I know that's fine if others booked ahead of me, all good.

But the lack of knowledge that call centre staff have that they're either not trained properly or reading from incorrect information or just saying anything to get you off the phone quickly, perhaps? That is not cool.

That’s not correct. Domestic upgrades clear immediately on request if there is availability.
There may have been an issue with ticketing your flight and that’s what the CS was referring to as a manual queue.

If there are no upgrades left on the domestic flight then they may get released later according to status etc as you have outlined.

 

[Guvner]

This from the Qantas website:

 

[Princess Fiona]

This from the Qantas website:

View attachment 288291

For International
The OP was requesting a Domestic upgrade and there is only a waitlist for these if no Classic Awards in J available at time of booking. Anyone can upgrade instantly if there is regardless of QFF status.

 

[Guvner]

So this is incorrect? I'm confused, not for the first time.

For International

 

[coyote25]

So this is incorrect? I'm confused, not for the first time.



View attachment 288295

The table is right but for domestic flights this table only comes into play if there isn’t an award J seat available when requested.

For example I’ve had a domestic upgrade done immediately and I’m waiting for one this week that I submitted 6 months ago but couldn’t be immediately confirmed as no J award spots on the flight.

So you are both right, there is an immediate upgrade process and if that doesn’t work the above table for QF yield management systems to consider if the request can be actioned.

 

[Princess Fiona]

So this is incorrect? I'm confused, not for the first time.



View attachment 288295

See my edited reply. It explains better what I’m trying to say.

 

[Guvner]

See my edited reply. It explains better what I’m trying to say.

Thanks!

 

[The Astronomer]

Although not related to award bookings, the issue of fights not being correctly ticketed reminds me of my experiences on a trip to Thailand in January-February 2020. Qantas issued an 081 ticket that included two flights on Bangkok Airways (one of which was booked under a QF flight number) and one on Singapore airlines. In all three cases, check-in staff said that they did not have my booking on the system. Fortunately, in each case after several phone calls by them, and supervisor assistance, they ‘found’ the booking. It turns out – and indeed, Qantas confirmed this with me later – that Qantas had failed to confirm the bookings with PG and SQ in time, so the bookings dropped out of their system, but fortunately there were seats still available on all the flights. Hats off to the PG and SQ staff who were eventually able to sort out the mess, but they had to go to quite some trouble to do so.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I wouldn't say Qantas Frequent Flyer points are the most valuable travel currency out there. One only look at Air Canada, Air France/KLM FlyingBlue and American's AAdvantage points if you want to see competitive award charts. For instance, with Air Canada's Aeroplan points I can consistently book long haul J awards from Australia to North America for 80,000 miles and round the world J tickets for 220,000 points. Indeed, it is so competitive that it often makes sense to go out and buy the points when they are running a promotion.

That being said, there can be good uses for QF points aside from toasters. For instance, flying to regional Australia like Lord Howe Island or Longreach where the cash ticket prices are sky high but the classic rewards are minuscule (i.e. 16,000 return for SYD > LDH + $180 in taxes & fees versus $1200 return cash fare) can be especially good use of QF points. Upgrades can be a particularly good award especially for short haul domestic hops like SYD > MEL on a $99 red e-deal fare, especially when the route uses a wide body aircraft like the A330. Indeed, this very feature of upgrading flights using points to upgrade revenue flights is something that is absent from Air Canada's Aeroplan program.

What I strongly disagree with from the article is this notion that it's impossible to find classic award flights on QF. Nothing can be further from the truth! If you come into any frequent flyer program assuming you will be able to find a J award on a specific date for a specific destination you will be sorely disappointed. Every FFP I've used to book award flights be it BA or AC requires some creativity to find the award be it flying into a different airport, different date or different routing. Indeed, that is part of the appeal for these programs, hiding away the gems from casual travellers so those who really enjoy travelling can snap them up.

-RooFlyer88

 

[justin23]

That being said, there can be good uses for QF points aside from toasters. For instance, flying to regional Australia like Lord Howe Island or Longreach where the cash ticket prices are sky high but the classic rewards are minuscule

Even flying to Perth on points is good value. I did Norfolk Island, but Horn island, Lord Howe island, Broome, Perth, Kangaroo Island etc are all usually not cheap to buy, so if you can find even award economy seats its good use of points. But there is a bit of a perfect storm going on IMO, Qantas sold a lot of FF points during covid and QFF made a lot of money and now people are trying to use them and all the advice is of course to not buy toasters and that premium awards are best use of points. The demand for award seats is just very high right now.

It doesn't help Qantas has forgotten how to run an airline the past few years either, but for now they really can't afford to release more award seats, i fully expect to see a lot more deals tempting people to use points on things like hotels and in the store, or discounts on economy awards.

 

[Berlin]

i fully expect to see a lot more deals tempting people to use points on things like hotels and in the store, or discounts on economy awards.

More? My inbox has already been getting spammed with that nonsense prior to Covid and it has already gotten worse…

 

[Anna]

Thanks for responding. I made it with QFF points and later contacted AA for their record locator but I have an AAdvantage account and thought it should show on that. Must be wrong... definitely have the QF itinerary. As I mentioned, I'm currently not a FF due to the pandemic. This will be my first trip OS in a long time and given all the issues people are having with Qantas I was just checking my options.

Using the AA record locator and your name, you could look up your booking on the AA website. But a booking that is linked to your QFF number won't link to your AA account, only to your QFF account.

 

[Happy Dude]

What I strongly disagree with from the article is this notion that it's impossible to find classic award flights on QF. Nothing can be further from the truth! If you come into any frequent flyer program assuming you will be able to find a J award on a specific date for a specific destination you will be sorely disappointed. Every FFP I've used to book award flights be it BA or AC requires some creativity to find the award be it flying into a different airport, different date or different routing. Indeed, that is part of the appeal for these programs, hiding away the gems from casual travellers so those who really enjoy travelling can snap them up.

-RooFlyer88

It shouldn't take an advanced degree in the comprehension of airline FFPs and route maps, the flexibility of an unemployed gymnast and/or Lucasfilm-level creativity just to have the possibility of finding a leprechaun's pot of gold before someone else. That's the point of the article.

People here in Aus accumulate QF points expecting, not unreasonably, to use them to fly from here to somewhere else. They shouldn't have to plan to travel to god knows where to fly some other airline to some place hopefully within the same hemisphere as where they'd like to go all within the same season when they'd like to be there.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I wouldn't say Qantas Frequent Flyer points are the most valuable travel currency out there. One only look at Air Canada, Air France/KLM FlyingBlue and American's AAdvantage points if you want to see competitive award charts. For instance, with Air Canada's Aeroplan points I can consistently book long haul J awards from Australia to North America for 80,000 miles and round the world J tickets for 220,000 points. Indeed, it is so competitive that it often makes sense to go out and buy the points when they are running a promotion.

That being said, there can be good uses for QF points aside from toasters. For instance, flying to regional Australia like Lord Howe Island or Longreach where the cash ticket prices are sky high but the classic rewards are minuscule (i.e. 16,000 return for SYD > LDH + $180 in taxes & fees versus $1200 return cash fare) can be especially good use of QF points. Upgrades can be a particularly good award especially for short haul domestic hops like SYD > MEL on a $99 red e-deal fare, especially when the route uses a wide body aircraft like the A330. Indeed, this very feature of upgrading flights using points to upgrade revenue flights is something that is absent from Air Canada's Aeroplan program.

What I strongly disagree with from the article is this notion that it's impossible to find classic award flights on QF. Nothing can be further from the truth! If you come into any frequent flyer program assuming you will be able to find a J award on a specific date for a specific destination you will be sorely disappointed. Every FFP I've used to book award flights be it BA or AC requires some creativity to find the award be it flying into a different airport, different date or different routing. Indeed, that is part of the appeal for these programs, hiding away the gems from casual travellers so those who really enjoy travelling can snap them up.

-RooFlyer88

I can find creative routings to europe with pretty good availability on Aeroplan. I cannot do the same on qantas. The problem is that premium awards on qantas metal to places in asia is virtually non existent. Where’s with aeroplan i can use Virgin or Singapore Airlines for the short hops to asia, then have a choice of a half dozen or so carriers onwards.

With QFFF that only becomes more realistic if willing to fly in the economic cabin Au-Asia.