Article: Why Keep Booking with Airlines that Screw You Over?

[MEL_Traveller]

I think the article hits the nail on the head… salt and pepper squid seems to trump anything QF and QFFF throws at its members. The extreme example is that pre covid both Singapore and Cathay were offering up to quadruple daily frequencies to their hubs with guaranteed flat beds, yet QFFFers would rather take the single QF service with angled beds. It’s not like QF makes up for any shortcomings because of price. (Compare to BA which also gets a lot of flack… but you can have a weekend away flying club europe for $300 with all the perks and tier credits that come with that!)

Some won’t set foot on Garuda, but will not think twice about Malaysia Airlines because well, the latter is part of oneworld… with the associated first class lounge.

There is an argument, or perception, that Qantas is safer. I can understand wanting to restrict choice of carrier on that basis. But question whether it is statistically valid.

 

[oz_mark]

Booking over and over is one thing. But some go the extra mile, and will almost defend until death their chosen airline.

 

[Anna]

Qantas was discriminating against me because of the disability I had

You could try writing to the Equal Opportunity Commission in your state to see if they agree. If they do, they may take up your complaint, if it is recent and not years ago.

 

[Daver6]

Lack of Legroom for tall people is my biggest grip. It is not a matter of comfort when your knees are jammed into the back of the seat in front, even if the person in front has not even reclined their seat.. It becomes painful.

And of course you then read about the exercises you are supposed to do to stop deep vein thromboses , which is impossible. And these days if you want a seat with enough legroom so it is not painful and damaging to you knees, airlines like Qantas now make you pay for the privilege.
I have even been assaulted after a Qantas flight when the person in front tried to recline their seat and my knees went into their back, which they took offense at.

Should short people get the front row seats at a concern, theatre etc for the same price because if they're further back their view is blocked by taller people?

 

[VPS]

Should short people get the front row seats at a concern, theatre etc for the same price because if they're further back their view is blocked by taller people?

Yes please

 

[aikman]

Should short people get the front row seats at a concern, theatre etc for the same price because if they're further back their view is blocked by taller people?

But that discriminates against tall people with poor eyesight who can't see that well from the back.

 

[flyingfan]

Some might say a lack of choice, especially in certain cities - then again some people are motivated enough to position elsewhere to avoid a hated airline.

One of the only other good reasons I can think of to keep booking with an airline you despise is to burn points. Otherwise, coming on here to rail against their service, call centre, network, a lack of alternatives etc doesn't achieve anything and is very tiresome to read (yes I know I'm not forced to read anything but it doesn't advance discourse). As has been said - use another airline that better suits your needs!

 

[pomona]

Totally agree with a QF flight boycott, &, anything connected to QF such as WW & credit cards etc.

My question is, "How can I claim redress for both financial ($7700) & mental distress (have never seen our son in DXB & 2year old Grandaughter since she was born) due to QF unilaterally cancelling my points booking, 1X2Y3Z*, with EK A7B8C9* ? This booking was made & top up paid for via Amex on Dec 24 2021. A tax invoice was promised within 24hours, that arrived 19th Jan. 2022 !

I have raised a dispute with Amex for that payment & await any outcome.

I am wondering if the QLD Office for Fair Trading or ACCC could take action, or, if there are many who have suffered the same treatment interested in a Class Action ? Surely this must be at least a breach of contract, any suggestions welcome.

The only reason we were made aware of the issue was when I logged onto my EK booking to check the PCR discount code & a pop up stated there was a problem ! Zero contact from QF or EK to alert me to the issue.

As we are all aware trying to call QF is impossible, as is EK (also emails) so there is no way to make contact.

I therefore enlisted some local assistance with the issue & show below transcript of telco with EK.

00:07:58 S : This booking was done by the travel agency. And this booking is cancelled.
00:08:10 S : Booking is cancelled as no tickets issued
00:08:13 a : hey so I made this booking through Qantas using my points
00:08:19 a : any ideas what is going on
00:09:02 S : You will be using Qantas points ?
00:09:14 a : yes I already used my points
00:09:22 a : and got charged by Qantas for the relevant taxes
00:09:26 S : Then, you will have to contact Qantas for the booking as points come from Qantas membership

Recently received this info :

"Possible reason for Qantas dog act

I suspect I might have a reason as to the whole Qantas cancelled flight debacle.

Emirates have just substantially increased the amount of points required for Business class redemptions.

I suspect your booking was caught up in the middle of this transition which meant it was easier for Qantas to cancel rather than do the admin required to change the booking".

I had to look up the dog act expression, but treachery certainly sums it up.

* Dummy PNR's

 

[Berlin]

I complain about Qantas A LOT- that Platinum member getting hung up on which is mentioned in this article was me and you can find many a disappointed meal report from me in the Qantas J class meal thread.

However. There's also this: Many AMAZING First class upgrades or miles redemptions on both Qantas and Emirates, definitely many of the best flights in my entire life. Having lived in NZ for almost 3 years recently has also changed my perception a little- Air NZ's Economy only Domestic flights are just awful for the most of it and how they have dealt with not refunding for any of their canceled flights makes Qantas' 10 weeks wait look like good customer service (almost).

Plus, and I know many will disagree: I personally cannot stand Virgin so that's not an option for me. Whenever I think to test them out again hoping they would have "matured" by now, I end up with a clowny crew and sloppy service which is EXACTLY how I have always seen the airline- closer to Ryanair than to Qantas. Just not my thing.

 

[Matt_01]

@pomona what type of booking did you make through QF using EK was it a classic rewards, straight out revenue or points+ pay for the later 2 were they on the code share. I get you are frustrated I was just not following all your comments, was the EK flight cancelled. If EK cancelled the flight this is not QFs doing however if you were on a QF code share then the onus should be on QF to get you to DXB maybe on a different carrier, whether they do or not is another matter and you ever receive a ticket number from QF. The point you make around EK increasing the number of points is also a little confusing, the number of points required for a Classic Flight reward with EK has not recently gone up and redemption rate managed by QF. I do not use the points+ pay and never will, if I understand points+ pay correctly the number of points required is set at an arbitrary value that QF sets and the number of points required is based on the price of the commercial fare and if EK has put the price up or the fare bucket you originally purchased is no longer available this may explain why you now need more points.

 

[justinbrett]

I'm not defending QF in any way - but there seems to be an anti-QF agenda in the AFF editorial team lately....

At very least, these "articles" should probably start with the word OPINION in bold, as is standard elsewhere.

 

[Guvner]

Isn’t that what an Editorial means? An opinion?.

 

[harvyk]

Love Qantas the airline, hate Qantas the company, and have golden hundcuffs to keep me going back for more.

 

[sydney slug]

Singapore not covering itself in glory either. Cancelled a First Class equipped flight so I cancelled a redemption trip. They refunded the points but then expired the points due to run off in November despite making a song and dance about extending them. Emailed before Christmas but no response yet and not joy following up on socials. Points came from Amex, the replacement value about 7k AUD. Not sure what I can do, happy for your thoughts….

 

[sydney slug]

Some might say a lack of choice, especially in certain cities - then again some people are motivated enough to position elsewhere to avoid a hated airline.

One of the only other good reasons I can think of to keep booking with an airline you despise is to burn points. Otherwise, coming on here to rail against their service, call centre, network, a lack of alternatives etc doesn't achieve anything and is very tiresome to read (yes I know I'm not forced to read anything but it doesn't advance discourse). As has been said - use another airline that better suits your needs!

Presumably the airlines are aware of the socials and that the members and readers here have deep pockets and have travelled many miles. If they are ignoring these pages then we really are buggered, if not then backing up editorial with personal stories is very worthwhile.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Singapore not covering itself in glory either. Cancelled a First Class equipped flight so I cancelled a redemption trip. They refunded the points but then expired the points due to run off in November despite making a song and dance about extending them. Emailed before Christmas but no response yet and not joy following up on socials. Points came from Amex, the replacement value about 7k AUD. Not sure what I can do, happy for your thoughts….

I believe there has been luck in getting those miles reinstated… reported by someone else in another thread here on AFF. I think it i was in the SQ miles extension thread (sorry don’t have the link in the mobile).

Presumably the airlines are aware of the socials and that the members and readers here have deep pockets and have travelled many miles. If they are ignoring these pages then we really are buggered, if not then backing up editorial with personal stories is very worthwhile.

*shrugs shoulders*

They used to have a rep on these pages but they were withdrawn.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'm not defending QF in any way - but there seems to be an anti-QF agenda in the AFF editorial team lately....

At very least, these "articles" should probably start with the word OPINION in bold, as is standard elsewhere.

Generally in the past, this site/blog or these fora have come across as disproportionately 'pro QFi/QFd.'

This may be because many of the most prolific contributors tend to be flying a lot, often on business, and domestically they or their employer are wedded to QF.

So this article that you perceive as 'anti Qantas' restores a bit of balance, needed as in 'normal' times, QFi/JQi carry, at best, one in three international passengers into and out of Australia, despite historically having a duopoly on the important TransTasman routes.

Many may agree for international flights, there are way better choices than QFi/JQi. Worth foregoing 'status'/'points' and so on for.

 

[RichardMEL]

Lack of Legroom for tall people is my biggest grip. It is not a matter of comfort when your knees are jammed into the back of the seat in front, even if the person in front has not even reclined their seat.. It becomes painful.

And of course you then read about the exercises you are supposed to do to stop deep vein thromboses , which is impossible. And these days if you want a seat with enough legroom so it is not painful and damaging to you knees, airlines like Qantas now make you pay for the privilege.
I have even been assaulted after a Qantas flight when the person in front tried to recline their seat and my knees went into their back, which they took offense at.

The worse was when I had a temporary disability after a knee reconstruction. I could not travel in a exit row as I was not mobile enough. I contacted Qantas to ask is there was a way I could guarantee a seat with legroom as it was impossible for me to use a normal economy seat as economy seats are jammed so close together (I had a medical certificate from my surgeon about it). Qantas response was they could not guarantee an alternative seat with legroom unless I paid for a full business class fair. So Qantas was discriminating against me because of the disability I had.

I don;t care if seats are close together as long as they are designed so that long legged people can actually stretch there legs under the seat in front without pain or risk of injury.

If airlines want to save costs get rid of the cabin service etc.. I can live without all that rubbish as long as I have a seat that is not painful to travel in.

You're writing this (and I note your username) as though QF is the only airline that has Y seats like this or won't seat someone n an exit row due to mobility or requires payment for an extra legroom seat.

Jut about ALL airlines in one way or another are like this. That's the business model.

I get you profoundly dislike QF due to your experiences, but you also need to be realistic that these are issues faced on just about every airline.

And it's not discrimination either.

I have long legs too. I use points or pay to sit in a seat that gives me the comfort I prefer (on many airlines). I understand that is not possible for everyone and I appreciate while recovering from an injury/surgery that a Y seat just won't do it. That's when you do need to stump you for an exit row seat, or an upgrade (or if possible seek other forms of transport that might be more knee friendly, like the train if applicable).

No doubt this was a one post and out to make a point and that's fine.. but if you do return at least acknowledge that QF - despite all its many flaws - is hardly alone with all the points you have raised.

 

[harvyk]

Presumably the airlines are aware of the socials and that the members and readers here have deep pockets and have travelled many miles. If they are ignoring these pages then we really are buggered, if not then backing up editorial with personal stories is very worthwhile.

They are aware of us, but realistically we do not affect their bottom line.

Take for example the guy who cancelled $350,000 worth of bookings. To you and me that's a serious amount of money. To a company that in a normal year has around $18billion in revenue that represents a 0.00019% problem. Even in covid years that represents a 0.00059% problem.

Yes, there are some sunk costs which they would lose out on (eg they still have to pay wages and aircraft repayments), but there is other costs that they would no longer have, such as catering and fuel costs for that pax. Plus lest we forget, they can always resell the seats, so if the flights are still full then QF loses on exactly nothing.

As much as any pax would like to think they matter, in reality as individuals they don't.

 

[RichardMEL]

I would say this kind of article was always going to happen and should to draw attention to how dire things are - most specially with the call centers, horrendous wait times, poorly trained/equipped agents (with some exceptions), misleading information (probably due to the training) and on top of that those waiting hours to be disconnected etc.

And it's not like this is new. This was an issue pre covid, but just not as bad. Now it's dire.

The sheer number of anecdotal experiences recorded pretty much daily are horrendous - from team leaders abusing customers for asking for a change to another booking - after asking the customer if there was anything else they could do for them.. to an agent castigating a customer who dared to want to make more changes to a reward booking (in a time of pandemic when everything changes daily mind you) to taking hours of waiting to be hung up on after being put on hold to resolve a simple thing and nothing being done, and so on, and so forth. It's dreadful!

Now sure, folks who post on AFF may be of a more niche variety of flyers who do more of these things than most (how many average punters would try and redeem a F reward from CAI to JFKJ via DXB and LHR? etc).. but this is definitely not a niche issue. Check social media and responses to anything involving QF - many comments mention the poor call centres, wait times and other issues.

So is it anti-QF? yes in this instance probably but it is focusing on a REAL and ongoing issue so MANY people are dealing with.

We all understand the current world situation makes things so much more difficult for everyone - from customers to airlines - constant changes of rules, regs, schedules, demand, etc etc etc are putting a strain on everything, and I think many of us understand this and make allowances, but clearly what is going on now is beyond the pail and needs to be brought (more) into the light.

and finally a thought that I think the notion of a rusted on loyalist to ANY carrier or chain or whatever is probably far more rare than it seems. I read post after post (including my own) from folks who book with QF, but also with SQ, QR, EK, UA and whoever else for international flying, and VA, Rex etc for domestic. Yes, status "handcuffs" will cause a bias in some ways, and I fully admit that (which is why I keep a foot in multiple airline groups so I have my own options). We do make value choices, and well if someone values FF points, SC's or partner airline benefits like F lounge access as being worth more than say price, or the service/equipment.. that is a subjective valuation that we all make in our own ways on many things. It doesn't have to mean someone is wedded insanely to one airline or brand of chocolate.
imo