Asiana 777 hull loss at SFO

[The Rok]

According to ninemsn, one of the dead may not of actually died in the crash but been struck by rescue vehicle on the runway instead. Now that would be devastating for the family. To have a loved one escape that crash alive only to be struck by those coming to help! I think its a tragedy.

Plane crash victim may have been run over

A San Francisco-area coroner whose office received the bodies of two teenage victims of the Asiana plane crash says officials are conducting an autopsy to determine if one of the girls was run over and killed by a rescue vehicle.

 

[Skyring]

Their have been 3 x 777 hull losses. Egypt Air lost one to a coughpit fire within the last year or so.

Of course. That was in the Wikipedia article I linked to. But not an operational loss. Like the brand new A340 that was destroyed during an engine test or the empty one that was blown up by terrorists, they don't really have much relevance to flying safety.

 

[Boris spatsky]

LOL LOL

Well all factors are already pointing to a rookie pilot error

I do not understand what your problem is. Are you questioning the specifics that you have bolded? I find your post particularly offensive.

Let us look at some possible options:
Windshear (unlikely though);
Dual engine roll back;
Flight control issue;
Autothrust failure;
Fatigue;
Airbrake/spoiler failure;
Etc etc.

Perhaps you should look up James Reason and his model and do some reading

I wouln't exactly call close to 10,000 hours a 'rookie' either.

 

[The Rok]

I do not understand what your problem is. Are you questioning the specifics that you have bolded? I find your post particularly offensive.

Let us look at some possible options:
Windshear (unlikely though);
Dual engine roll back;
Flight control issue;
Autothrust failure;
Fatigue;
Airbrake/spoiler failure;
Etc etc.

Perhaps you should look up James Reason and his model and do some reading

I wouln't exactly call close to 10,000 hours a 'rookie' either.

I am not saying it was pilot error, I would prefer not to speculate and instead waif for the official report from the NTSB, however according to CNN it was the pilots first ever landing on a Boeing 777.

Pilot in deadly crash had no experience landing 777 in San Francisco - CNN.com

 

[drron]

LOL LOL Well all factors are already pointing to a rookie pilot error

Except the pilot wasn't a rookie.

 

[moa999]

Some disturbing comments from pilots in this article.

Professional Pilots on the San Francisco Crash - James Fallows - The Atlantic

Gist is that SFO ATC is known for instructing pilots to carry-out a "slam dunk" approach, which has much higher sink rates and thus risk.

 

[Fruitcake]

I am not saying it was pilot error, I would prefer not to speculate and instead waif for the official report from the NTSB, however according to CNN it was the pilots first ever landing on a Boeing 777.

CNN, like every other press story I've read that includes this fact, actually says it was the first time he has landed a 777 at SFO. Not the first time he has ever landed a 777.

"The pilot of the Asiana Airlines plane that crashed in San Francisco on Saturday was making his first landing with a Boeing 777 at San Francisco International Airport, the airline said."

 

[The Rok]

CNN, like every other press story I've read that includes this fact, actually says it was the first time he has landed a 777 at SFO. Not the first time he has ever landed a 777.

"The pilot of the Asiana Airlines plane that crashed in San Francisco on Saturday was making his first landing with a Boeing 777 at San Francisco International Airport, the airline said."

Yes, I picked up on that, but it follows it up with he had a total of 43 flight hours on the 777, which led me to the conclusion he was new to the aircraft, not just at SFO.

 

[lovestotravel]

Except the pilot wasn't a rookie.

Can't land on a good weather day ?
Sounds like a rookie to me

Oh and 40 something hours on the 777 and his first time landing the 777.....

 

[mannej]

Of course. That was in the Wikipedia article I linked to. But not an operational loss. Like the brand new A340 that was destroyed during an engine test or the empty one that was blown up by terrorists, they don't really have much relevance to flying safety.

How is it not an operational loss? The were boarding the plane at the time, so I would suggest that has a lot of relevance to safety...

 

[Skyring]

Yes, I picked up on that, but it follows it up with he had a total of 43 flight hours on the 777, which led me to the conclusion he was new to the aircraft, not just at SFO.

And 9 000 odd hours on B747. Plus however many sim hours on the B777.

I don't want to pour cold water on anybody's fun speculations, but even if we had coughpit video of the guy wearing a tutu and slugging down Jack Daniels, I still wouldn't call it pilot error. There are more experienced minds than ours on the job, working with better information than we are getting off Youtube and CNN. Let's wait for them to give their expert informed views.

 

[samh004]

CNN, like every other press story I've read that includes this fact, actually says it was the first time he has landed a 777 at SFO. Not the first time he has ever landed a 777.

"The pilot of the Asiana Airlines plane that crashed in San Francisco on Saturday was making his first landing with a Boeing 777 at San Francisco International Airport, the airline said."

I also read he'd landed a 747 there before, and has way more hours on the 747. Obviously, types are different, but being in a 747 more, which is higher up, he'd have surely noticed he was far too low compared to previous approaches.

 

[oz_mark]

And 9 000 odd hours on B747. Plus however many sim hours on the B777.

I don't want to pour cold water on anybody's fun speculations, but even if we had coughpit video of the guy wearing a tutu and slugging down Jack Daniels, I still wouldn't call it pilot error. There are more experienced minds than ours on the job, working with better information than we are getting off Youtube and CNN. Let's wait for them to give their expert informed views.

My guess is that the final report will list a bunch of factors that contributed to it....

 

[The Rok]

And 9 000 odd hours on B747. Plus however many sim hours on the B777.

I don't want to pour cold water on anybody's fun speculations, but even if we had coughpit video of the guy wearing a tutu and slugging down Jack Daniels, I still wouldn't call it pilot error. There are more experienced minds than ours on the job, working with better information than we are getting off Youtube and CNN. Let's wait for them to give their expert informed views.

As per my original post, I didn't say I support the opinion that it was pilot error, I would rather wait for the NTSB report. Im am not in the business of speculating, I was simply quoting a news article that also references the opinions of some here that it was pilot error.

 

[YQY]

Korean Air Lines had a deplorable safety due to ex-Korean Air Force pilots mainting the Air Force culture. This may have been a contributry factor to the Asiana crash, where the Pilot may not have taken advice from the junior pilot.

New Standards Mean Korean Air Is Coming Off Many 'Shun' Lists - New York Times
[url]http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/2008/12/04/malcolm-gladwell-on-culture-coughpit-communication-and-plane-crashes/
[/URL]

 

[under the radar]

Wow, that is some serious speculation without all the facts...

many posts on here are pure speculation...BUT some 'cultures' INCLUDING WORK OR SOCIAL OR CULTURAL can affect outcomes to events.... (and i refuse to enter the 'debate' further on this horrific event out of respect to those that have been lost or suffered)

 

[whatmeworry]

I just hope they just figure out what happened as soon as possible so it never happens again.

 

[straitman]

NTSB Investigates Asiana 777 Accident In San Francisco


By Guy Norris [email protected]
Source: AWIN First

July 06, 2013
Credit: Justin Sullivan

The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is investigating why an Asiana Airlines Boeing 777-200ER arriving from South Korea undershot the runway at San Francisco International airport on July 6.

The aircraft, carrying 291 passengers and 16 crew, was operating flight 214 from Seoul to San Francisco and landed short of the threshold of runway 28L at 11:36 a.m. local time. The 777 was badly damaged in the initial crash landing and was subsequently gutted by fire that engulfed the fuselage. Passengers evacuated using principally the left doors L1 and L2, from which slides were deployed, as well as aft left doors. Doors were also opened on the right side of the fuselage though it is not yet known if the fire on the right side of the aircraft prevented any of them being used for evacuation. Of the 307 people onboard, 181 were taken to local hospitals, 49 of them with serious injuries. Yet, despite the severity of the impact and the ensuing blaze, there were only two confirmed fatalities and one person still unaccounted for seven hours after the crash.

The aircraft hit the low seawall which separates the airport from the waters of San Francisco Bay. Images of the debris field indicate the 777 made an initial impact to the right of the centerline, losing its tail section and parts of the landing gear before sliding down the runway and slewing off into the grass to the south of the normal touchdown area. Eyewitnesses report the 777 struck the wall ahead of the displaced threshold area in a nose high attitude, causing the entire empennage to detach aft of the pressure bulkhead. The vertical and horizontal tail were scattered in the displaced threshold area, just ahead of major sections of the landing gear.

 

[markis10]

The NTSB has just held another press conference, two interesting facts, they are interviewing all four flight deck crew including the check captain, and impact was at 106kts, up from the lowest speed of 103kts during the approach. Target speed was 137kts.

 

[Major]

There are some further photos at AV Herald

Accident: Asiana B772 at San Francisco on Jul 6th 2013, touched down short of the runway, broke up and burst into flames