Ask The Pilot

[AVC]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Normal in LA. Happens with the 747s as well on some gates. I think it's mostly a jet blast issue.

And what goes out, must go in. There's also the issue of spooling up and hoovering stuff in as well. My friend lost his headset during an engine test run on a 744. It sucked up the cable and ripped the head set straight off him.

Earplugs don't help?

For me, when on nightshift, they're a necessity, even when there's no-one at home.

I just turn on the A/C with the fan on high. That much background noise will white out anything. I slept before night shift the other day with four 5 year olds in the house. Old Army training - sleep when you can, eat when you can, because you never know when you'll get the next opportunity.

Or as they say, ... more cooks in the kitchen....

Or too many Chiefs, not enough indians.

 

[serfty]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

... Old Army training - sleep when you can, eat when you can, because you never know when you'll get the next opportunity.

...

You censored the third part ...

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

JB747 - this one is probably not your normal aviation related question.

The family and I have recently returned to Australia from spending 5 weeks in the US and UK. During our time in the US we were fortunate to spend 5 days in Key West. While in Key West we booked my three children (11, 10, 6) on a joy flight in a 1942 Waco UPF-7 Biplane. When we arrived at the airport the kids and I were greeted by the owner Fred Cabanas and his team and shown around the hangar which housed a number of aircraft including a Pitts S2C, J3 Cub, Grumman F8F Bearcat, T-6, Decathalon, Sea Fury, P-51 Mustang and a 1930 Stearman 4CM. As Fred was preparing the Pitts S2C for a 3 week trip to Panama via Mexico my oldest son spent time talking to Fred about flying and asking him a bunch of questions. In between the joy flights we wished Fred a safe and enjoyable trip and he took off for Cozumel, Mexico. Later in the evening we were watching the local news and we found that Fred and a Sports Reporter (passenger) had been killed while taking off in a Decathlon from Cozumel Airport. The cause of the accident hasn't been determined however the Mexican authorities are saying its pilot error while Fred's US based contacts appear to be indicating it may have been a structural failure with the Decathlon.

Since we've returned from holidays my son has spent a number of hours digging up information on the accident and asking how an experienced pilot with 24,000+ hours could get into this situation. With your many years of flying in both the RAN and civilian life you've no doubt encountered times where close friends and acquaintences or even people who you've recently met have been killed in aviation (the 1993 EK MIG15 accident in Canberra comes to mind). How do you deal with these situations and how have you advised young people who are passionate about flying?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Chris, aviation is an extremely unforgiving occupation. It really doesn't matter how many hours one has, there's always a scenario you haven't seen, or a mistake you haven't thought of, just waiting to ruin your day. If you look around, you'll find that a pretty high number of people who are involved in the sort of flying Fred did eventually come to grief. In part, it's probably because they are exposed to riskier parts of the spectrum more than others. Some become blase about things, and most likely forget just how dangerous it can be. Others are flying very old machinery, which was never particularly forgiving in the first place. Some environments are simply dangerous (think fire fighting or crop dusting). The most exciting sort of flying is invariably the sort that has no margins (low level displays)...and sometimes you really need those margins.

Over the years I've lost a surprising number of friends and workmates to accidents. Just last year we lost a friend from the USA...high performance jet aircraft are extremely unforgiving of even the slightest mistake. Aviation is all about trying to keep your options open. The more choices you have, the better things are. But, as you (or the environment around you) make decisions that start to remove your options, the risks go up exponentially. Think about fuel and weather for instance...not much fuel might force you into trying to land in weather you wouldn't otherwise consider. There's lots of examples I'm sure we can all think of.

How do you deal with it? Well, the military (in my day anyway) just went to the bar and had many drinks for our compatriot. I think it's fair to say that every one of my (lost) friends knew the risks...but flying is, at the very least, a very attractive mistress. My wife makes no bones of the fact that she's very glad that I don't do any flying outside of the airline, and I have no intention of doing any...I guess I've ticked that box.

 

[straitman]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Just to add a little to what jb747 has said. Often the situations that jump out and bite people are the ones they are confident they have under control. You can never afford in aviation to believe you are invincible and or that you know it all. Like jb747 I have lost too many mates over the years and unfortunately some were when people got over confident and had too much self belief.

Personally the worst scenario was having to initiate the accident investigation for a fatal accident where a close friend (same pilots course) and neighbour was killed. This was done with the thought in the back of my mind that it easily could have been me as I was the last person to fly that aircraft prior to the fatal flight.

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

And what goes out, must go in. There's also the issue of spooling up and hoovering stuff in as well. My friend lost his headset during an engine test run on a 744. It sucked up the cable and ripped the head set straight off him.

Can I ask, what happened after that to the engine & flight as I'm assuming that the engine had to be inspected/taken apart?

 

[AVC]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Can I ask, what happened after that to the engine & flight as I'm assuming that the engine had to be inspected/taken apart?

It went back in the hangar for more inspection and repair. Nothing went into the actual turbine, so the damage was limited to the fan. Probably still cost megadollars to fix, but they used to spend lots of money (read, waste) in those days.


And on to my question for JB, how many hours would a pilot be expected to sit in the seat (be it left or right) before they get a break?

 

[mjt57]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Personally the worst scenario was having to initiate the accident investigation for a fatal accident where a close friend (same pilots course) and neighbour was killed. This was done with the thought in the back of my mind that it easily could have been me as I was the last person to fly that aircraft prior to the fatal flight.

That's sad.

I was a huge fan of Douglas Bader as a kid and read "Reach for the Sky" many times over. I would often wonder how those guys handled losing comrades in battle. Don't s'pose it's any easier to deal with in peacetime, either.

As an aside, what did you/do you fly?

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

And on to my question for JB, how many hours would a pilot be expected to sit in the seat (be it left or right) before they get a break?

Well, if your bladder could last that long, up to eight hours. In "heavy" crews we've got a number of different methods of breaking things up, but half and half is quite common.

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Hi JB747

I was just wondering what happens to your pay when aircraft types get grounded?

That is, when the A380's and currently B787's were/are grounded. Obviously no pilots of those aircraft were flying anywhere for the weeks that the grounding lasts, so is there a 'base salary' that pilots get paid in these circumstances?

Thanks

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

I was just wondering what happens to your pay when aircraft types get grounded?

That is, when the A380's and currently B787's were/are grounded. Obviously no pilots of those aircraft were flying anywhere for the weeks that the grounding lasts, so is there a 'base salary' that pilots get paid in these circumstances?

Different airlines and contracts will have differing ways of handling that. With new aircraft the flying always tends to be a bit erratic, so there may even be 'transitional' arrangements specially written for an introduction. In general though, for relatively short groundings, you would expect the airline to be paying a base rate....which could be most of the normal salary (otherwise why go to any aircraft when new). They'll also be scheduling lots of sim sessions, so they'll want continued access to the pilots. If it starts to extend, then they might start sending people on annual leave. And beyond that, reconversions back to previous types (which won't be too difficult, as long as you stay with the same maker), but you'd really have to be considering grounding of over six months before contemplating that.

When the 380 was grounded, there's a break of about 7 weeks in my flying..but a sim every few days.

 

[Blackbird]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

When the 380 was grounded, there's a break of about 7 weeks in my flying..but a sim every few days.

Just curious .. when you are fronting up every few days, are these sims fun, normal flights or the more usual nightmare flight?

 

[anat0l]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

How long would it take to start an A380 from a "cold start" to a state when it can be moved (not towed, i.e. on its own power)?

Is there a "key" or "code lock" protection that must be input somewhere in the coughpit in order to enable the aircraft to be operated, e.g. to prevent someone errant from simply powering up the aircraft by themselves?

 

[Flying Fox]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

When the 380 was grounded, there's a break of about 7 weeks in my flying..but a sim every few days.

Thanks for the info.

Do you get paid for time in the sim? If so, is it at the normal rate/hour?

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Just curious .. when you are fronting up every few days, are these sims fun, normal flights or the more usual nightmare flight?

Sims that aren't part of either a conversion or licence renewal can be quite a bit of fun. Basically, there's a chance to experiment with things that you wouldn't dare to look at in the 'sudden death' licence renewals. And, at the time QF32 was pretty topical, so many of the facets of that flight were being looked at as the opportunity arose.

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

How long would it take to start an A380 from a "cold start" to a state when it can be moved (not towed, i.e. on its own power)?

For a normal passenger trip, it takes about 45 minutes to do all of the things that need doing. But, if I was trying to steal it, and skipped just about everything, the limit would be the time taken for the IRSs to align. So, perhaps 10 minutes.

Is there a "key" or "code lock" protection that must be input somewhere in the coughpit in order to enable the aircraft to be operated, e.g. to prevent someone errant from simply powering up the aircraft by themselves?

No...but there's a lot of security to get past before you'll get near the aircraft.

 

[jb747]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

Do you get paid for time in the sim? If so, is it at the normal rate/hour?

Of course we get paid. Why else would we be there? They aren't paid at the normal rate, but at a fixed 'daily' rate that is used for any ground duty or standby.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

For a normal passenger trip, it takes about 45 minutes to do all of the things that need doing. But, if I was trying to steal it, and skipped just about everything, the limit would be the time taken for the IRSs to align. So, perhaps 10 minutes.

Thanks jb747 And thanks for not laughing about the "key" thing I was expecting someone to make a joke like, "I can't fly today. I left the keys at home."

I suppose there's no phrase in the pilot / flying parlance equivalent to the driving expression, "Drive like you stole it."

 

[hummel]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

No...but there's a lot of security to get past before you'll get near the aircraft.

So not like some GA airfields then? Always found that a little strange and cool at the time!

 

[SenZubEanS]

Re: Now Boarding ... Chicken or Beef?

So not like some GA airfields then? Always found that a little strange and cool at the time!

Well GA aircraft are a little different and many will have keys.