Ask The Pilot

[anat0l]

Thanks for those answers, jb747.

Another question, probably discussed - possibly ad nauseum - before: if a QF aircraft has to divert during a journey to an airport which is not normally within the QF network, how is the ground handling situation handled (i.e. how do you or what can you do about negotiating the permission to land, service the aircraft, allow pax to disembark, arranging other ground services - e.g. an ambulance, and - possibly - making arrangements (e.g. accommodation, bring the aircraft to a stand-off bay) if the aircraft cannot take off within a reasonable time frame...)

Does QF negotiate (in advance) with particular airports along its routes particular agreements for handling in the odd event that it may need to divert?

I assume, as captain, you are delegated with powers and responsibility to negotiate with ground teams for the necessary procedures, however I've read in some other anecdotes that it may not be a simple case of landing, asking for service and then telling them to bill the company (I've read some anecdotes where the flight crew needs to pony up the money to pay off the airport before attempting to recover it once arriving home). How much communication in these instances do you have with the necessary higher powers (in operations) in Coward Street (this is a guess: this may not be the correct authority which you need to talk to in situations like this)?

 

[jb747]

Thanks for those answers, jb747.

Another question, probably discussed - possibly ad nauseum - before: if a QF aircraft has to divert during a journey to an airport which is not normally within the QF network, how is the ground handling situation handled (i.e. how do you or what can you do about negotiating the permission to land, service the aircraft, allow pax to disembark, arranging other ground services - e.g. an ambulance, and - possibly - making arrangements (e.g. accommodation, bring the aircraft to a stand-off bay) if the aircraft cannot take off within a reasonable time frame...)

Does QF negotiate (in advance) with particular airports along its routes particular agreements for handling in the odd event that it may need to divert?

I assume, as captain, you are delegated with powers and responsibility to negotiate with ground teams for the necessary procedures, however I've read in some other anecdotes that it may not be a simple case of landing, asking for service and then telling them to bill the company (I've read some anecdotes where the flight crew needs to pony up the money to pay off the airport before attempting to recover it once arriving home). How much communication in these instances do you have with the necessary higher powers (in operations) in Coward Street (this is a guess: this may not be the correct authority which you need to talk to in situations like this)?

Most places we are likely to go, there will be some sort of arrangements already in place. Numerous airports are designated for us as mains/alternates, and generally you'd expect things to go fairly smoothly there. Others, are listed as emergency fields (they might actually be mains for other fleet types) and the assistance that you'll get there will vary dramatically...but if I find myself at an emergency field, it means an emergency has happened to get me there...so, I'll worry about the details once I'm on the ground. You'd expect the company would be able to arrange for most things pretty quickly, although on one occasion years ago, a Captain actually chartered a 747 from another airline to take his passengers the rest of the way. That probably takes 'my friend will pay' to new heights.

 

[Simsy85]

Ok I appreciate you may not want/be able to answer this for whatever reason, and if you can't/won't, I understand.

But your comment about the day the Liquid Bombs went off sparked (for lack of a better word) memories for me of September 11 - essentially, where were you? what sort of communication do you get when there is a natural disaster/major event in an area your heading or if your just in the air when they occur?

The reason I ask (and again, I get that you might be restricted in what can be said) is that I was on a Thai Airways 747 from BKK - FCO coming into land when the first plane/second plane hit - I remember getting off the plane and thinking we'd taken off in Bangkok nice and happy and during the flight World War III had started. The pilot didn't say anything to us but the look of the crew when we were getting off the plane you could tell something serious had happened, and when we saw the TV's tuned to BBC we knew (not to mention the airport was packed with soldiers oddly enough).

 

[jb747]

But your comment about the day the Liquid Bombs went off sparked (for lack of a better word) memories for me of September 11 - essentially, where were you? what sort of communication do you get when there is a natural disaster/major event in an area your heading or if your just in the air when they occur?

I was at home when that happened, and just accidentally looked at the news on the CNN web site. So I caught on that it was happening early enough to watch it live, and horrified.

When things like that happen (be they any sort of issue), the company attempts to track down every crew member. I'll try to find as many of my crew as I can (as will the CSM), and of course the company has all the mobile numbers, and knows exactly who is in town. With a bit of luck, you'll find everyone within an hour or so. Smart crew will ring Capt/CSM first.

Where the company has access to info that they think you need, they can uplink it to all of the aircraft, and they can call most on the sat phone. In the case of the London event, I think we were aware of it before them. First inkling we had was from the last controller in Europe, before being handed over to London...he simply warned us that there was some sort of security issue. Next radio call to London came up with the advice that the UK was not accepting arrivals, and asking our intentions. At that time we had enough fuel to hold for a while before having to commit to any of the possible options (Amsterdam was most likely), so we held in our present position. SO got onto the sat phone to see what he could find out, and FO and I used the time to have a look at the charts for the most likely alternatives. Just prior to having to head for Holland, ATC cleared us to Heathrow. Once on the ground, ATC were understandably reluctant to say much on the radio, but once a few passengers had turned on mobile phones, the story came out pretty quickly.

The reason I ask (and again, I get that you might be restricted in what can be said) is that I was on a Thai Airways 747 from BKK - FCO coming into land when the first plane/second plane hit - I remember getting off the plane and thinking we'd taken off in Bangkok nice and happy and during the flight World War III had started. The pilot didn't say anything to us but the look of the crew when we were getting off the plane you could tell something serious had happened, and when we saw the TV's tuned to BBC we knew (not to mention the airport was packed with soldiers oddly enough).

Difficult to say just what they would have been told. The company may elect to say nothing, as the news is likely to have a detrimental effect on safety for the rest of the flight (taking peoples' minds off the job). Nevertheless, somebody would find out, and then it's likely to ripple around the airwaves.

 

[QF029]

JB how much of your time in foreign ports is spent adjusting sleep patterns etc? Do you get any time to go out eating / shopping / meeting friends etc or do you spend most of your time at the hotel?

 

[ermen]

Have you ever been subject to those incidences where people on the ground shoot lasers at planes coming in to land? Are you tempted to try do a strafing run over the target area to annhilate them

 

[Sifor]

Have you ever been subject to those incidences where people on the ground shoot lasers at planes coming in to land? Are you tempted to try do a strafing run over the target area to annhilate them

I have one of those laser pointers (green 50mW - and no, they aren't illegal in QLD..) and found it hard to believe they can cause issues (unless a direct hit to the eye). I was wrong.

It must be the glass composition that makes the beam flood the coughpit.

 

[jb747]

JB how much of your time in foreign ports is spent adjusting sleep patterns etc? Do you get any time to go out eating / shopping / meeting friends etc or do you spend most of your time at the hotel?

Slips are strange things, and probably nothing like people imagine.

In Singapore headed to London, you arrive at 10 pm, which is midnight body clock time. You get to bed at 1 or 2 am. Invariably, you wake up at around 6 or 7 local. Early afternoon, you try to get some sleep. If lucky you will, otherwise you spend some hours staring at the ceiling.

London you arrive at about 6 am local, which is 4 pm body clock. Get to the hotel an hour or two later. You may sleep, but half the time you're too tired to do so for long. Go out for a few beers/dinner, but by 8 pm local your batteries will be pretty flat. Go to bed. Wake up at 2 am. That's it. Breakfast is the high point of the day. You may have time to go and do something, although you may also be leaving that night. If not, you'll be out am the next day. Doesn't matter what you do, you'll wake up at 2 am.

In Singapore, depending upon which flight you're doing, you arrive at either 8 am or 6 pm. If you arrive in the morning, you'll probably sleep all day. Of course sleeping that night will be wishful thinking. If you arrive on the later flight, you'll go out for dinner...sleep well the first night, but horrid the next night.

It's very sociable...as long as the people you want to see happen to be in the same time zone as you. Last time I was invited to dinner in the UK, I fell asleep in the middle of it.

USA has its own variations...but they mainly involve not being able to sleep at night at all.

 

[jb747]

Have you ever been subject to those incidences where people on the ground shoot lasers at planes coming in to land? Are you tempted to try do a strafing run over the target area to annhilate them

No thankfully not....

And with what weapons?????

 

[NM]

No thankfully not....

And with what weapons?????

Ahh, that is when you could do with the in-flight lav dump capability

 

[bryanjones]

JB - very interesting thread. Silly questions I'm sure, but have you ever been worried coming into a landing? A lot of the passangers certainly are!

For instance, the first time you landed into LHR were you nervous? What about the first time under snow?

Do you get nervous about the amount of fuel you have left?

 

[jb747]

JB - very interesting thread. Silly questions I'm sure, but have you ever been worried coming into a landing? A lot of the passangers certainly are!

Worried. No. I think if it reached the 'worried' point, you should have diverted to somewhere else. Or perhaps found another job.

For instance, the first time you landed into LHR were you nervous? What about the first time under snow?

You can occasionally be a bit nervous on check rides. Not normally in day to day ops though. First time in decent snow...more interesting than anything else.

Do you get nervous about the amount of fuel you have left?

No. Basically because I consider them to be fuel tanks, and not air tanks...and tend to carry a bit more than the bare minimum.

 

[el_rooto]

Is there anywhere I can check weather for trans pacific crossings? Is there a way I can see if my flight will be making a pit stop?

 

[jb747]

Is there anywhere I can check weather for trans pacific crossings?

The weather in the middle doesn't have that much effect on things. Headwinds will be an issue, but they are generally known about before departure, with the payload, and fuel load, adjusted accordingly.

Is there a way I can see if my flight will be making a pit stop?

Realistically, the pilot doesn't know whether he's going to be making a pit stop. That's the whole problem with weather...by its very nature it isn't totally predictable. At the planning stage, a flight will be catered for the forecast conditions. But, if the weather forecast deteriorates, then you may not be able to generate an acceptable solution, and so a diversion becomes necessary.

A diversion, like some other things we've discussed here, is the safe solution... I recall a day on which we diverted, and whilst awaiting refuelling had passengers asking why we diverted, when their friends on airline xx_ didn't. It wasn't something I could answer, as the reason we diverted was because the conditions were outside the aircraft (Boeing) limits...the airline their friends were on would seem to have been happy to ignore those limits. Of course, they take that away as 'next time I'll fly on xx_, as they get in', whereas I see it as very dangerous behaviour.

To answer your original question though...do a web search for TAF or TAFOR for the destination (KLAX, YBBN, YSSY, YMML). The result will be quite cryptic, but some sites decode as well. If fog (FG), or thunderstorms (TS) are mentioned...then you might need to go elsewhere, especially if the destination is either Sydney or Melbourne.

 

[markis10]

Is there anywhere I can check weather for trans pacific crossings? Is there a way I can see if my flight will be making a pit stop?

As JB747 mentioned you need to check the TAF, given QF8 diverted this morning and the TAFs are similar in nature between conditions expected today and tomorrow, its a likely scenario that a diversion will come into play, the first one is for your arrival while the second one was the earlier forecast covering this mornings arrival, while there is no fog, the low cloud will be taken into account, I have put a decode in red of the significant parts:


TAF YBBN 162245Z 1700/1806 16010KT 9999 SCT030 BKN045 (From 10AM scattered cloud at 3000, broken cloud at 4500)
FM170900 20007KT 9999 SCT025 BKN040 (From 7PM scattered cloud at 2500 broken at 4000)
FM180200 15010KT 9999 SCT030 SCT045 (From 12 noon Monday scattered cloud at 3000 and 4500)
RMK T 17 19 19 15 Q 1022 1020 1019 1020

TAF YBBN 161654Z 1618/1724 20007KT 9999 -SHRA SCT010 BKN030 BKN060
FM170000 14009KT 9999 -SHRA SCT020 BKN045
FM170600 20008KT 9999 SCT040
RMK T 11 11 17 19 Q 1022 1022 1023 1020


Broken cloud is where cloud covers is between 6/10 and 9/10 of the sky.
Scattered cloud is 1/10 to 5/10 of the sky.

 

[Limewood]

I've wondered how long haul pilots sit in the one seat for so long, also if they get a co pilot they have nothing in common with so conversation becomes painful (plug into an iPod!).

 

[el_rooto]

Thanks JB747... Are you allowed to ask the pilots questions before takeoff?

Also, I understand that diverting is the safe option, just curious to know whether it will happen this time.

 

[jb747]

Are you allowed to ask the pilots questions before takeoff?

If you see them, and they have time, sure. But, whether they would know the answer to your question...

Also, I understand that diverting is the safe option, just curious to know whether it will happen this time.

Well, which flight are you on? The Dallas flight is the most likely to divert, followed by the 94. But, the 94 is normally only affected by fog, whereas the Dallas flight is affected by the colour of my neighbour's garage door (i.e. everything). Diversions are a pretty low percentage of flights, so the chances start at a pretty low level.

 

[el_rooto]

If you see them, and they have time, sure. But, whether they would know the answer to your question...


Well, which flight are you on? The Dallas flight is the most likely to divert, followed by the 94. But, the 94 is normally only affected by fog, whereas the Dallas flight is affected by the colour of my neighbour's garage door (i.e. everything). Diversions are a pretty low percentage of flights, so the chances start at a pretty low level.

Currently sitting in DFW enjoying not getting carded, so on QF 8

 

[jb747]

Currently sitting in DFW enjoying not getting carded, so on QF 8

There's nothing nasty in tomorrow morning's forecast for Brisbane.

But..

	22:34 UTC, 16/07/2011 TAF YSSY 162234Z 1700/1806 33008KT 9999 -SHRA SCT020 SCT030 FM170200 36008KT 9999 SCT025 SCT035 FM171200 30008KT 9999 SCT020 INTER 1700/1702 4000 SHRA BKN010 RMK T 15 16 16 14 Q 1024 1022 1021 1022
	00:04 UTC, 17/07/2011 TTF METAR YSSY 170000Z 31005KT 9000 VCSH FEW001 SCT050 BKN120 14/12 Q1025 RMK RF00.0/000.0 INTER 0030/0200 4000 SHRA FEW006 BKN010

[TD="colspan: 2"]*SYDNEY YSSY[/TD]

That's the Sydney forecast and actual taken off the BoM site a few minutes ago. Note that the forecast, issued at 23:34Z yesterday gives conditions for right now as 33008KT, 9999 (10 km) vis, showers, scattered cloud at 2000, scattered at 3000. Also temporarily reducing to 4000mtres, showers, broken cloud at 1000.

The actual weather is a bit different though. Wind and vis are close, but now there's cloud at 100 feet. The amount isn't an issue today, but you see that the forecast, issued many hours beforehand, often has little relationship to what is actually experienced.