Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

In post #4725 you noted that 90% of A380 issues were related to software.

Are software upgrades generated by the operator or must they emanate from the manufacturer ?

The come from Airbus/Boeing. There's constant conversation between the makers and users regarding changes in software, hardware, and procedures.

 

[petercr]

would be interesting if there was the Airbus equivalent of Microsoft Patch Tuesday... you have 23 security updates to install, please install them and re-boot your plane now

 

[harvyk]

would be interesting if there was the Airbus equivalent of Microsoft Patch Tuesday... you have 23 security updates to install, please install them and re-boot your plane now

I could imagine it now, half way on a flight between SYD and LAX, all of a sudden a message box appears, telling you that you can either land and reboot now, or the plane will do it for you in 10 minutes...

 

[petercr]

JB, just watching the Dubai Airport show and they're talking about an EK flight (EK414)to SYD that leaves at 01:50 and they were suggesting that it has a very tight turn-around otherwise it misses the curfew at the other end. I would have thought that it would be fine getting into SYD... How long is the DXB to SYD leg? I'm assuming that departure time would be equivalent to mid morn in Oz...

 

[geordieladinoz]

JB, just watching the Dubai Airport show and they're talking about an EK flight (EK414)to SYD that leaves at 01:50 and they were suggesting that it has a very tight turn-around otherwise it misses the curfew at the other end. I would have thought that it would be fine getting into SYD... How long is the DXB to SYD leg? I'm assuming that departure time would be equivalent to mid morn in Oz...

It's arrival time into SYD is around 10pm so only an hour to spare before the curfew cuts in. I did this recently and it's 13 hours. DXB is currently 6 hours behind Sydney so an 1.50am departure is equivalent to 7.50am in Sydney.

 

[anat0l]

What ATC instruction or interaction is given / exchanged before you enter a holding pattern? (i.e. do you ask for final approach, they say no, hold this pattern then fly to and enter the stack, or what happens - excuse the poor use of terminology...)

Once you're in a holding pattern, do you prompt ATC when to exit or do you simply hold the pattern until ATC tell you to move out and go to final approach? (i.e. who calls / questions who first...)

 

[SenZubEanS]

just watching the Dubai Airport show

What is the actual name of this show, keen to track down the eps online.

 

[petercr]

Ultimate Airport Dubai - was made for Discovery Channel this year so may not be readily available except via Murdoch Pay TV (tm) or possibly on-board Emirates flights...

 

[Must...Fly!]

Ultimate Airport Dubai - was made for Discovery Channel this year so may not be readily available except via Murdoch Pay TV (tm) or possibly on-board Emirates flights...

It's actually a National Geographic production and is a 10-part series.

 

[mjt57]

JB, now that you guys have been flying to London via Dubai for a while, what's the overall impression both from flight crew (inc FAs) and passengers?

When we transited through there to/from England in May my wife thought that the place was creepy, particularly since we were there in the middle of the night on the way home.

 

[Boris spatsky]

would be interesting if there was the Airbus equivalent of Microsoft Patch Tuesday... you have 23 security updates to install, please install them and re-boot your plane now

Funnily enough, on my previous aircraft type that was fairly new glass coughpit technology back then, a lot of the gremlins would go away with one (or sometimes multiple) reboots.

We also found out after a few years of operating the type, that the memory buffer would fill up if you didn't reboot the aircraft over a period of 24 hours or so (i.e. you needed to remove all external power and the APU and do a cold reboot).

Software updates were also uploaded by the engineers, just as your comment states (although you generally had a grace period to have them installed).

So yes, not that different to Windows

 

[Alanslegal]

Just an observation ..... at IBZ two weeks ago, I was seeing A320 type planes (or similar) self maneouvering from the gate. I recall the planes, on its own power, pushing back a few metres, then moving forward and doing a tight circle turn onto the tarmac then to the runway. I recorded a video of those turns as I thought it was pretty fascinating as usually (I guess at larger airports than IBZ) that the pushback is completed by the push/tow trucks.

 

[harvyk]

This is half an ask the LAME / ask the Pilot question. When there are software updates is the pilot advised of the update? Is there any sort of additional pre-flight checks which would need to happen after a software update, and if there is a LAME reading this, is there any sort of testing which you would do after installing software updates?

Of course this is right now reminding me of a joke

At a recent computer software engineering course, the participants were given an awkward question to answer :


" If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?


Only one man sat motionless among the ensuing forest of raised hands. When asked what he would do, he replied that he would be quite content to stay aboard. With his team's software, he said, the plane was unlikely to taxi as far as the runway let alone take off

 

[jb747]

Funnily enough, on my previous aircraft type that was fairly new glass coughpit technology back then, a lot of the gremlins would go away with one (or sometimes multiple) reboots.

We also found out after a few years of operating the type, that the memory buffer would fill up if you didn't reboot the aircraft over a period of 24 hours or so (i.e. you needed to remove all external power and the APU and do a cold reboot).

Software updates were also uploaded by the engineers, just as your comment states (although you generally had a grace period to have them installed).

So yes, not that different to Windows

Reboots work with everything. Some of the computers can even be reset in flight. But, remember that there a many computers in the aircraft. Having one or two off having a sulk isn't normally an issue.

 

[jb747]

This is half an ask the LAME / ask the Pilot question. When there are software updates is the pilot advised of the update? Is there any sort of additional pre-flight checks which would need to happen after a software update, and if there is a LAME reading this, is there any sort of testing which you would do after installing software updates?

We don't necessarily have any interest in updates. If it has an effect upon the way things behave, or the procedures we need to use, then we'll most likely be alerted to it via the standing orders before installation, an update to the flight manual, and then a notice in the tech log.

Thinking back to the initial -400 upgrades...you'd know, because something would start behaving the way the manual said it was supposed to all along.

Of course, like any software, updates can introduced bugs of their own. We discovered one on the 767 (which was apparently also in the 757, 747 and 777), in which an FMC change had introduced the ability to descend through the MCP altitude (basically you'd set an altitude, and with the autopilot engaged, it would simply ignore that altitude). Passed the info back to Boeing and a 'red' bulletin was issued as soon as they confirmed it. Fixed shortly thereafter...and then about 10 years later, another FMC update brought the same bug back.

 

[jb747]

Just an observation ..... at IBZ two weeks ago, I was seeing A320 type planes (or similar) self maneouvering from the gate. I recall the planes, on its own power, pushing back a few metres, then moving forward and doing a tight circle turn onto the tarmac then to the runway. I recorded a video of those turns as I thought it was pretty fascinating as usually (I guess at larger airports than IBZ) that the pushback is completed by the push/tow trucks.

Are you sure that they weren't using one of these SCHOPF PowerPush - Remotely Controlled Towbarless Pushback System - YouTube

Most reversers don't actually provide enough reverse thrust to safely push an aircraft back (and yes, I know it's often done on the MD90s and older 737s).

 

[dk4]

I recall the planes, on its own power, pushing back a few metres, then moving forward and doing a tight circle turn onto the tarmac then to the runway. I recorded a video of those turns as I thought it was pretty fascinating...

Hope you upload your video, quite an funky thing to see done.

Slight roll forward, then back it goes...
[video=youtube;ID3jfc39x3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID3jfc39x3E[/video]

 

[Orca]

What ATC instruction or interaction is given / exchanged before you enter a holding pattern? (i.e. do you ask for final approach, they say no, hold this pattern then fly to and enter the stack, or what happens - excuse the poor use of terminology...)

Once you're in a holding pattern, do you prompt ATC when to exit or do you simply hold the pattern until ATC tell you to move out and go to final approach? (i.e. who calls / questions who first...)

Generally speaking (from an Aus ATC perspective), ATC will know when and how long aircraft need to hold well ahead of time and the aircraft are held at designated/published holding waypoints (a published pattern will specify direction of pattern as well as the time required to fly the 'outbound' leg of the pattern - both these instructions can be altered by ATC if necessary) well outside the destination aerodrome- for example BNE arrivals from the south are held o'head the Gold Coast, amongst others. The crew will be instructed to hold at that point and (workload permitting) given an expectation of when they will be departing the hold in addition to their expected landing time. Individual controllers will have their own technique in regards to managing the timing of aircraft leaving the pattern - some controllers will assign the pilot with a time to 'set course' from the pattern, in which case the instruction to crew would be something like this... "QFA516, Hold at Gold Coast, maintain/descend FL210, adjust pattern to set course Gold Coast at time 23."

Alternatively, many controllers prefer to steer the aircraft themselves (for a variety of reasons) and will monitor the aircraft in the pattern and then bring them out of the pattern and vector the remaining (minimal, if any at all - depends how good the controller is ha!) delay before sending them on their way. So the instruction would be this initially "QFA516 hold at Gold Coast, maintain FL210. Expect to depart (the hold) at time 23." followed by, at the appropriate time, "QFA516, cancel hold. Turn left/right Heading xx_ (or track direct to xx_)"

Hope this provides a bit of insight - any further questions or if you'd like more depth let me know

 

[jb747]

What ATC instruction or interaction is given / exchanged before you enter a holding pattern? (i.e. do you ask for final approach, they say no, hold this pattern then fly to and enter the stack, or what happens - excuse the poor use of terminology...)

Once you're in a holding pattern, do you prompt ATC when to exit or do you simply hold the pattern until ATC tell you to move out and go to final approach? (i.e. who calls / questions who first...)

Leaving Australia out of the mix, mainly because the times that I arrive don't normally involve holding...

In large part it's quite ad hoc. Sometimes you'll have 50 miles worth of warning, and at others just a few. As often as not, as soon as you enter the pattern, you'll either be told to leave next time you pass the fix, or to take up a heading and leave now. Loading a pattern takes about 30 seconds (as long as it's already on your planned track).

Into Dubai, there's one fix from each direction (that we fly) that will almost always involve at least one turn around the pattern. We'll have a look at it during the approach brief, but don't load it until ATC tell us to hold (the instruction is simply 'hold at XYZ'). Into London, the 9 normally doesn't do any holding, but the 1 will be held at Lambourne, and generally stepped down a few thousand feet whilst there.

USA...I've never been held at either SFO or LAX, but always on the way to NYC. On one occasion, we started holding with over a thousand miles to run, and the instructions from that point were basically 'track direct to XYZ and hold'.

Mostly you don't really have any discussion with ATC about which runway or approach you will use. They know what's appropriate, and sequence aircraft for those approaches. In Oz, it's different, and quite normal to be told you're for a runway which may be quite unsuitable... in which case we simply say we 'require' a specific runway/approach and we'll be sent to that.

You don't normally leave the pattern automatically, although there are some 'procedural' patterns that involve just that. For those who play with the various Flight Sims, there's one on the NDB approach in Amsterdam.

 

[Alanslegal]

Are you sure that they weren't using one of these SCHOPF PowerPush - Remotely Controlled Towbarless Pushback System - YouTube

Most reversers don't actually provide enough reverse thrust to safely push an aircraft back (and yes, I know it's often done on the MD90s and older 737s).

I will check my recordings later tonight and get back to you.

Hope you upload your video, quite an funky thing to see done.

I will review and if there was no assistance I will post it onto Youtube.