Ask The Pilot

[mjt57]

Dubai certainly isn't 'dry'.

Yes indeed.

On our first visit to the place, transitting between DXB and LHR, we wandered through that rat run called "Duty Free" (MEL's worse). Plenty of "non-dry" bottled drinking stuff for sale, not to mention a bar which was operating at 4am. Brrrr...

That surprised the heck outta me.

My biggest worry, though, was if they decided that my medication that I had at the time warranted crucifixion (first offence), more than having an ale or two...

 

[bryanjones]

I could imagine it now, half way on a flight between SYD and LAX, all of a sudden a message box appears, telling you that you can either land and reboot now, or the plane will do it for you in 10 minutes...

is there also a beta test done on one plane or airline before general rollout?

 

[jb747]

is there also a beta test done on one plane or airline before general rollout?

I'm sure no airline would be happy to be the tester for the software. As far as I know it's rolled out across a fleet as a maintenance item...so not all aircraft get it at once, but it would happen reasonably quickly.

The makers would test it, mostly in their systems simulators, and perhaps test aircraft (if they still have any) and new aircraft off the line.

Beyond that though, there will always be miniscule numbers of these systems in service, compared to (say) an iPhone. Whatever is a couple of levels worse than beta is probably as good as it gets.

 

[harvyk]

I'm sure no airline would be happy to be the tester for the software. As far as I know it's rolled out across a fleet as a maintenance item...so not all aircraft get it at once, but it would happen reasonably quickly.

The makers would test it, mostly in their systems simulators, and perhaps test aircraft (if they still have any) and new aircraft off the line.

Beyond that though, there will always be miniscule numbers of these systems in service, compared to (say) an iPhone. Whatever is a couple of levels worse than beta is probably as good as it gets.

Speaking as a software engineer for a second (who does also program hardware firmware), having only a small number of installations (how many A380's are there flying in the world right now?) coupled with known hardware (it's not like a web developer who has to expect their code will run across IE / Firefox / Safari / Chrome etc...) who is writing updates for existing software would actually be a relatively easy environment to code for. That's not to say I don't have total respect for those guys, as I know if my software crashes, well it's a little annoying, if their software crashes, well..... Given the sort of software it is (firmware effectively) you'd effectively go from Alpha testing to release without needing the Beta stage.

I would also imagine that they have a variety of methods to test the software against both pure software simulators as well as getting inputs from actual sensors prior to release.

Plus I'd imagine roll back procedures would be well documented as well...

 

[jb747]

Speaking as a software engineer for a second (who does also program hardware firmware), having only a small number of installations (how many A380's are there flying in the world right now?) coupled with known hardware (it's not like a web developer who has to expect their code will run across IE / Firefox / Safari / Chrome etc...) who is writing updates for existing software would actually be a relatively easy environment to code for. That's not to say I don't have total respect for those guys, as I know if my software crashes, well it's a little annoying, if their software crashes, well..... Given the sort of software it is (firmware effectively) you'd effectively go from Alpha testing to release without needing the Beta stage.

I would also imagine that they have a variety of methods to test the software against both pure software simulators as well as getting inputs from actual sensors prior to release.

Plus I'd imagine roll back procedures would be well documented as well...

I sometimes wonder who they actually ask about their software though. Much of it seems to be designed by people in offices, who are working on a particular part of the software, but who don't speak to the guys in the next office who are working on their own module. And neither speak to end users, or if they do, they assume they know better.

One small example. The OIT software is used on the A380 to get ACARS data. One of the things we can request are various forms of weather information. When it appears it pops up in a very small window, and only allows you to read a small fraction of what you've just requested....but, there was a maximise button which blew it up to full screen, and made it easily read. A couple of years ago, a software update changed maximise so that all it does now is remove the buttons from the screen whilst leaving the weather unreadable. So it went from a very useful function to one that has no use at all. But, I'm sure a software engineer somewhere is happy. Given that it has no positives for the end user, you have to assume they were never asked.

 

[harvyk]

I sometimes wonder who they actually ask about their software though. Much of it seems to be designed by people in offices, who are working on a particular part of the software, but who don't speak to the guys in the next office who are working on their own module. And neither speak to end users, or if they do, they assume they know better.

Welcome to my world...

A large proportion of software engineers who I have worked with hate talking to the end users of their software, and they do feel that they know better than the end users and are more than happy to argue for hours over a small detail without ever looking at the big picture and in some really bad cases once a decision has been made, if they don't like the decision they will go ahead and do their own thing. Managing a software development project is part dealing with the technical aspect, part dealing with ego's...

 

[mjt57]

But, I'm sure a software engineer somewhere is happy. Given that it has no positives for the end user, you have to assume they were never asked.

I'm surprised that Airbus doesn't have pilots on the development team who would have the final say-so as to whether a product goes live or not.

It's one thing for a developer to make software for a manufacturing process, for example, where the end users aren't all that skilled. But when you have highly educated people flying multi-million dollar aircraft with Lots Of People on board, you'd think that they'd listen to them, at least.

With this weather info "update" did you have the opportunity to submit a bug or fault report to get it changed?

 

[jb747]

I'm surprised that Airbus doesn't have pilots on the development team who would have the final say-so as to whether a product goes live or not.

It's one thing for a developer to make software for a manufacturing process, for example, where the end users aren't all that skilled. But when you have highly educated people flying multi-million dollar aircraft with Lots Of People on board, you'd think that they'd listen to them, at least.

With this weather info "update" did you have the opportunity to submit a bug or fault report to get it changed?

I'm sure that Airbus do. But, one problem with any system is that the experts you get in from 'outside' will just as likely 'go native'. Also, I expect that the pilots Airbus have are test pilots, and whilst extremely skilled, they are just as likely to have zero airline experience (otherwise they'd still be airline pilots).

 

[WheelieBagWanderer]

Hi There JB,

I was looking at an old flight "log" from when I was a kid that I found the other day when cleaning up and I found in the log a trip I took with my parents to LAX with QF in the 80's and it brought back some memories.

I'm asking you to delve into the past quite a way here, but I'm just trying to remember some (kid) things about that trip.

I remember being allowed to visit the flight deck as we made our way across The Pacific, and I remember the Captain telling me that the aircraft we were flying on, 747-238 VH-ECB (City of Swan Hill) was a combi aircraft.

As a kid, this fascinated me and I remember spending the rest of the trip trying to imagine what sort of exotic cargo could be carried in the pallets behind me!

So, bearing in mind I know you flew 747's, but I'm not sure if you were flying them when the combi's were flying around, I have a couple of questions.

Would the 747 Combi's be "different" in terms of handling/operations/range/MTOW etc than flying an all-pax 747-200?
Did they used to have a economy on the upper deck of the combi's? From memory, I'm pretty sure my flight was on the upper deck, but I'm sure we were flying economy.
What routes did they use them on? From a bit of Google-ing I found: LAX, PPT, NRT and HNL. Any others you can name?

And I think QF only had two of them - VH-ECB and ECC. City of Swan Hill and City of Shepparton. They're the names in my log at any rate. Was it only the 2 combi's flying around, or did I miss some somewhere?

I do know that both of the above got converted to all-pax configs and ECB ended up with AC and ECC with FJ. Other than that, I don't know much about them, but to me, a combi was the most fascinating aircraft in the QF fleet. KLM still flies a few examples around I think.

One funny thing was that I always got the Captain to sign my log when I was a kid, and the Captain in this instance was "Captain Bones". I reckon that's one of the best names for a captain I've ever heard - providing he wasn't using some poetic license.. LOL.

Thanks in advance if you can give any insight on these great aircraft, JB!

 

[mjt57]

JB, I'm reading that book, "coughpit Confidential" at the moment. Amongst his observations about the US Airline industry he comments on the state of the nation's airports. Apparently most of them are still government owned and are being run down.

How does this compare with Australia's airports? Does Macquarie Group, for example, adequately maintain Sydney? (I don't know who owns the other airports around Oz) Or are they focusing more on shopping malls and car parks than facilities for airlines and passengers?

And what he's saying in general all seems to gel with what you relate here, too, particularly comments about how, in years to come, flying will regress to the point where it becomes a luxury, rather than what it is today - a cheap service accessible by anyone.

 

[moa999]

I'll let jb747 comment on the state of the airport but note that Macquarie no longer owns much/any of the listed entity which is now called Sydney Airport Holdings (ticker SYD) and owns about 85% of the 99yr lease on Sydney Airpory, (previously Macquarie Airports then Map Airports) having divested its other airport holdings which at one point included Brussels and Copenhagen.

Historically, it was very lucky to survive 12 months from the IPO, being not far away from the fate of BrisConnections (that also had a partly paid structure and went to almost zero).

 

[markis10]

I'll let jb747 comment on the state of the airport but note that Macquarie no longer owns much/any of the listed entity which is now called Sydney Airport Holdings (ticker SYD) and owns about 85% of the 99yr lease on Sydney Airpory, (previously Macquarie Airports then Map Airports) having divested its other airport holdings which at one point included Brussels and Copenhagen.

Macquarie are still the largest shareholder of SYD having a 22% share with MAML placements making up the majority of the board (4 out of 6 directors).

 

[petercr]

JB, watching Dubai Airport and tonight they were focusing on an A332 coming out of C-check. They showed the pilot doing an engine test flight and I noticed in the coughpit they seem to have yellow tinted pull-across blinds - are these similar in design to what you can get for car windscreens (but more expensive ) and any reason why they'd be yellow rather than a darker tint ??

(also of interest was that the service engineer in charge of the engines was an Aussie ex-pat)

 

[Skyring]

In another thread, a poster mentioned that their flight was delayed because the aircraft needed a new tyre. Understandable, I guess - those things must take a hell of a beating each time they hit the ground, flat-spotted in a puff of smoke.

Now, I've changed many a tyre myself, often at night in the rain on a muddy verge by myself, but changing a tyre on even a small airliner must be a whole different game.

I have no idea how it would be done. Five minutes at the gate? A maintenance hangar job?

 

[Sprucegoose]

In another thread, a poster mentioned that their flight was delayed because the aircraft needed a new tyre. Understandable, I guess - those things must take a hell of a beating each time they hit the ground, flat-spotted in a puff of smoke.

Now, I've changed many a tyre myself, often at night in the rain on a muddy verge by myself, but changing a tyre on even a small airliner must be a whole different game.

I have no idea how it would be done. Five minutes at the gate? A maintenance hangar job?

my experience Sir was 30 at the gate, they jack it up in situ. Well thought through procedure

 

[CaviAck]

my experience Sir was 30 at the gate, they jack it up in situ. Well thought through procedure

Same here, was jacked up at the gate and took about 30mins

 

[blu]

Back in the late 1980's I heard of someone in Maintenance being sacked/terminated for dropping a 747 off a jack (a huge repair cost apparently). Possibly an apprentice.

 

[jb747]

I remember being allowed to visit the flight deck as we made our way across The Pacific, and I remember the Captain telling me that the aircraft we were flying on, 747-238 VH-ECB (City of Swan Hill) was a combi aircraft.

As a kid, this fascinated me and I remember spending the rest of the trip trying to imagine what sort of exotic cargo could be carried in the pallets behind me!

So, bearing in mind I know you flew 747's, but I'm not sure if you were flying them when the combi's were flying around, I have a couple of questions.

Would the 747 Combi's be "different" in terms of handling/operations/range/MTOW etc than flying an all-pax 747-200?
Did they used to have a economy on the upper deck of the combi's? From memory, I'm pretty sure my flight was on the upper deck, but I'm sure we were flying economy.
What routes did they use them on? From a bit of Google-ing I found: LAX, PPT, NRT and HNL. Any others you can name?

And I think QF only had two of them - VH-ECB and ECC. City of Swan Hill and City of Shepparton. They're the names in my log at any rate. Was it only the 2 combi's flying around, or did I miss some somewhere?

I do know that both of the above got converted to all-pax configs and ECB ended up with AC and ECC with FJ. Other than that, I don't know much about them, but to me, a combi was the most fascinating aircraft in the QF fleet. KLM still flies a few examples around I think.

There were three combis. A was Pratt engined, and B and C had Rollers. No idea of what their weights were now, but I'd expect that A was different to B/C. There were many different weight limits across the 200/300 fleet. Even aircraft that appear identical can have different limits (for example the max landing weight of the later RR 747-400s is about 10 tonnes LESS than that of the early ones.)

Flying-wise they were more or less identical to their all pax relatives. The S/Os were given extra fire fighting training, and they were responsible for keeping an eye on the cargo in flight. There wasn't normally much that was exciting back there. I recall a car and some horses (the horses always came with their own guardians as well).

Looking through my log, I can find flights with Combis to Singapore (rare) and Hong Kong (often), but no mention of Narita.

The upper deck...I've seen that in many configurations, from first through to economy, and I have no idea what was where, or when.

One funny thing was that I always got the Captain to sign my log when I was a kid, and the Captain in this instance was "Captain Bones". I reckon that's one of the best names for a captain I've ever heard - providing he wasn't using some poetic license.. LOL.

No, it was his name. Alan Bones.

 

[jb747]

JB, watching Dubai Airport and tonight they were focusing on an A332 coming out of C-check. They showed the pilot doing an engine test flight and I noticed in the coughpit they seem to have yellow tinted pull-across blinds - are these similar in design to what you can get for car windscreens (but more expensive ) and any reason why they'd be yellow rather than a darker tint ??

There are orange pull out blinds most of the way around the coughpit. No idea why they chose the colour, but it's pretty awful.

(also of interest was that the service engineer in charge of the engines was an Aussie ex-pat)

You run across Aussie expat engineers almost everywhere......

 

[jb747]

In another thread, a poster mentioned that their flight was delayed because the aircraft needed a new tyre. Understandable, I guess - those things must take a hell of a beating each time they hit the ground, flat-spotted in a puff of smoke.

Now, I've changed many a tyre myself, often at night in the rain on a muddy verge by myself, but changing a tyre on even a small airliner must be a whole different game.

I have no idea how it would be done. Five minutes at the gate? A maintenance hangar job?

A relatively simple job, which can be done whilst the passengers are boarding. Basically a big hydraulic jack, and lots of bolts to undo. About 15-20 minutes....