Ask The Pilot

[docjames]

What are the requirements for the manifest (ie. who's on board and seated where) and how "accurate" it has to be? Every name presumably but is exact seat position essential for the pax list (again I'm assuming yes due to balance /weight distribution)? Would the CSM (where carried) and the PIC have the same listing?

When is it provided (just before takeoff)? How often does it change between an initial list and takeoff?

I'm thinking in terms of "last minute" upgrades (and downgrades I guess too).

If you could explain that process and a bit about required / not required paperwork?

Thanks

 

[jb747]

What are the requirements for the manifest (ie. who's on board and seated where) and how "accurate" it has to be? Every name presumably but is exact seat position essential for the pax list (again I'm assuming yes due to balance /weight distribution)? Would the CSM (where carried) and the PIC have the same listing?

When is it provided (just before takeoff)? How often does it change between an initial list and takeoff?

I'm thinking in terms of "last minute" upgrades (and downgrades I guess too).

If you could explain that process and a bit about required / not required paperwork?

Whilst it might surprise you, I don't get a passenger manifest. I get a load sheet, which tells me about any dangerous cargo, animals, and the weights and distribution. There is no reason for me to care about who is sitting in which class, or whether they are frequent flyers, VIPs, or what their meal requirements are.

A provisional loadsheet (i.e. the weights) is generated about 45 minutes before departure. Fuel ordering is based on that. A final sheet, is sent by ACARs about 3 minutes before push back. Take off data is checked against that.

CSMs/pursers have exact details of the passengers. Allocated seats are all known and either shown on a printed listing, or more commonly these days, on an iPad app.

 

[Quickstatus]

JB how do refuellers know when fuel tanks are full. Do they fill up to "first click" or top off after the first click? If you want full tanks do you just say fill it up or must you ask for "xx_" tonnes?

 

[jb747]

JB how do refuellers know when fuel tanks are full. Do they fill up to "first click" or top off after the first click? If you want full tanks do you just say fill it up or must you ask for "xx_" tonnes?

We order the fuel down to a hundred kgs. The refuellers set the aircraft refuelling system, and then just pump it in. The aircraft will distribute it correctly, and it will then shut down at the preset load.

 

[Quickstatus]

JB can the A380 fly DFW-MEL with the typical loads and weather?

 

[jb747]

JB can the A380 fly DFW-MEL with the typical loads and weather?

Not really. If you only carried about 250 passengers it would possibly work, but the economics wouldn't. There would certainly be occasions when the winds are favourable (or at least not too unfavourable), and the stars align, but it would never be a reliable route.

 

[Quickstatus]

Thx JB. On LAX-SYD. At what point has the aircraft used 50% fuel? HNL?

 

[jb747]

Thx JB. On LAX-SYD. At what point has the aircraft used 50% fuel? HNL?

I haven't got a 12 flight plan to look at, but on the 8, 50% of fuel was remaining at 3950 nm from start point, on a 7563 nm flight.

 

[Awesom Andy]

If it is already known before take-off that you will need to make a tech stop to top up the tanks (eg unfavourable winds), what choice would you have in terms of choosing the location of the pit stop? Or would the airline send you a relevant flight plan and you would be more or less expected to follow it unless you have specific reasons not to?

 

[Blackswan]

Whilst it might surprise you, I don't get a passenger manifest. I get a load sheet, which tells me about any dangerous cargo, animals, and the weights and distribution. There is no reason for me to care about who is sitting in which class, or whether they are frequent flyers, VIPs, or what their meal requirements are.

JB, thanks for answering all the questions here.

With dangerous cargo - have you ever felt uncomfortable carrying it, and asked that it be offloaded?

 

[flychrisfly]

What happens to the catering if a flight is delayed or takes off and has to return? Are there tolerances for how long the food can be held on board before it has to be replaced? Does this explain why the bread roles can be really tough sometimes?

 

[defurax]

JB, thanks for answering all the questions here.

With dangerous cargo - have you ever felt uncomfortable carrying it, and asked that it be offloaded?

I don't want to answer for JB, but I just want to clarify one thing regarding shipment of dangerous goods by air. The quantities, packing group and classes of DG allowed on passenger aircraft are vastly different to what is allowed in cargo only aircraft. In addition, Qantas does not allow the transport of DG according to IATA "limited quantities" packing instructions. So even though one can ship some nasty stuff by air (and I did it a lot in a previous job), the IATA updates the list of chemicals and packing instructions every year. So it is very safe.

 

[docjames]

Can I ask a couple of questions about diversion airports?

Do you know which airports are used in the event of a late requirement to divert from JNB, SCL and LAX (eg. airfield closed unexpectedly)? I appreciate the airports have multiple runways so eg. in the event of an aircraft blocking the preferred runway they could use an alternate but I guess the situation could arise whereby the whole airfied was closed (unexpectedly) - I'm not meaning eg. predicted weather / storms. I assume there are multiple options but there are pros and cons to each?
If the DFW-SYD (or the old DFW-BNE) flight had a planned stop in eg. NOU is the aircraft fuelled to an amount appropriate for a plan to stop in NOU (and thus a "maximum" refuel in NOU) or will it carry "extra" to minimise the amount of fuel needed to be taken on in NOU?

 

[jb747]

If it is already known before take-off that you will need to make a tech stop to top up the tanks (eg unfavourable winds), what choice would you have in terms of choosing the location of the pit stop? Or would the airline send you a relevant flight plan and you would be more or less expected to follow it unless you have specific reasons not to?

Planned tech calls are very rare in long haul operations. One of the reasons relates to the CASA flight time limits. A tour can be planned to X hours (with X varying depending upon complement), with an optional extension. A planned tour would almost certainly start by having to use the extension, and so would be immediately illegal.

On a shorter operation (say A330 Melbourne-HKG), any tech call would be planned by despatch & fleet management. You might get a phone call about it, but realistically, they've got a good understanding of the options.

 

[jb747]

What happens to the catering if a flight is delayed or takes off and has to return? Are there tolerances for how long the food can be held on board before it has to be replaced? Does this explain why the bread roles can be really tough sometimes?

Bread is always tough after a couple of years.

Catering and cabin crew look after the food. As long as it's refridgerated I'd expect it would last a long time. The issue would be food that is already in the ovens...but in most cases of a return, you'll most likely not be going again, so it will simply be tossed.

 

[jb747]

With dangerous cargo - have you ever felt uncomfortable carrying it, and asked that it be offloaded?

I've never had any issues with the cargo I carry. I expect the most problematic cargo is the unintentional dangerous cargo that passengers carry...book matches in luggage, unprotected batteries...that sort of thing.

 

[jb747]

Can I ask a couple of questions about diversion airports?

Do you know which airports are used in the event of a late requirement to divert from JNB, SCL and LAX (eg. airfield closed unexpectedly)? I appreciate the airports have multiple runways so eg. in the event of an aircraft blocking the preferred runway they could use an alternate but I guess the situation could arise whereby the whole airfied was closed (unexpectedly) - I'm not meaning eg. predicted weather / storms. I assume there are multiple options but there are pros and cons to each?

You have to accept that on many occasions, there comes a point at which you have no diversion options. Yes, there might be a runway nearby that you could use in a pinch (i.e. Avalon, Richmond, Ontario), but in some cases the destination is the only option that is big enough, and for which you have fuel. You don't, as a matter of course, carry a diversion all the way to destination. As a last option, max braking, and the longest section of runway available. I expect you'd be surprised at how quickly you can stop if you're not concerned about brake temperature, or passenger comfort.

If the DFW-SYD (or the old DFW-BNE) flight had a planned stop in eg. NOU is the aircraft fuelled to an amount appropriate for a plan to stop in NOU (and thus a "maximum" refuel in NOU) or will it carry "extra" to minimise the amount of fuel needed to be taken on in NOU?

It can't have a planned stop like that, as it would almost certainly exceed the planned crew duty limits. As there's obviously plenty of warning to plan such an operation, you'd also have plenty of time to put a replacement crew on station. In that case, Brisbane is the most likely place to go. Last time I saw a similar operation, it was LA to Melbourne, and they placed a replacement crew in Auckland. Total ground time was about 40 minutes.

Fuel loading...sometimes we tanker fuel, but in most cases we'd simply carry what was needed for the sector. With a planned stop, you'd be better off carrying a bit extra on the first sector, and burning it by going as fast as possible. Extra fuel, means extra weigh when landing, and so extra brake temperature. Not all places have facilities to cool the brakes, so if they got hot on the landing, that could delay the departure.

 

[D747]

I expect you'd be surprised at how quickly you can stop if you're not concerned about brake temperature, or passenger comfort.

Not all places have facilities to cool the brakes, so if they got hot on the landing, that could delay the departure.

How quickly can you stop please jb?
What facilities are used to cool brakes?

 

[jb747]

How quickly can you stop please jb?

Not allowing any margin, no reverse, max automatic braking, nil wind, and about 375 tonnes....about 1650 metres.

What facilities are used to cool brakes?

A few different ways. Some aircraft have cooling fans built into the wheel hubs. We use conditioned air from the terminals, ducted to the hubs....where it's installed. The place we need it most is Dubai, and they've got it there.

 

[Fruitcake]

Not allowing any margin, no reverse, max automatic braking, nil wind, and about 375 tonnes....about 1650 metres.

Is that the ground roll, or the 50ft obstacle distance? Either way it's fairly impressive.