Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

On the topic of a 'short' touchdown. What are the repercussions of missing the touchdown point? Obviously the remaining length of runway to decelerate the aircraft after touchdown decreases if you land 'long'. Is there any danger in a short landing or is it a matter of consistency?

The companies can record short or long landings (the various data recorders have access to the GPS data, so they know pretty well exactly where touchdown occurred). Minor transgressions in either direction aren't a cause for concern, but they are very interested in 'clusters' of landings off the target. If a substantial number of landings are missing the spot, at a particular runway, then what is the reason? Melbourne 34 is uphill, and I expect that there are (especially for foreign operators who don't see this runway often) a statistically significant number of landings that are shorter than usual (without being 'short'). Equally, on 16 it's very easy to float, and touchdown longer than intended. Dubai often has substantial tailwinds, which also gives rise to long landings. In any event, this sort of clustering points to an issue for training.

Go beyond that minor transgression, and you are into dangerous territory, whether it be long or short. Overruns will come from delayed touchdowns (the brakes don't work too well if the wheels aren't on the ground). The recent accident involving a biz jet in the UK came from an unstable approach leading into a very long landing. At the end of a non precision approach in poor visibility, there's a tendency to duck under, and go quite short. The visual image doesn't look right, and that tends to be a natural response. I suspect this was what happened in the recent Aseana A320 and Air Canada 767 accidents.

 

[joey1695]

So it is both a matter of consistency and danger. Thanks for clearing that up.
Now you mention the tailwinds in Dubai sometimes leading to long landings.
I am flying on the A380 to Dubai out of BNE on monday with Emirates. Would pilots operating frequently in and out of DXB become accustomed to the tailwind issue or is it not consistent enough to get a 'feel' for? In contrast, would the slight incline/decline of Melbourne 34/16 be easier to get a feel for if the pilot operated there frequently enough?
Thanks again for your contribution!
Joe.

 

[jb747]

Firstly, you should note that landings don't generally vary by all that much. Probably 300 feet short, to 700 long would cover 99.5% of them all. As often as not, those super greasers that passengers and cabin crew love....are at the long end of acceptable. I just aim for the 3 wire, and accept the smoothness, or lack thereof....

Now you mention the tailwinds in Dubai sometimes leading to long landings. I am flying on the A380 to Dubai out of BNE on monday with Emirates. Would pilots operating frequently in and out of DXB become accustomed to the tailwind issue or is it not consistent enough to get a 'feel' for?

I'm quite sure the Emirates guys know how to handle Dubai.

A tailwind can have a number of effects. Firstly there's the limits. Only 15 knots maximum with flap full, and 10 if using flap 3; so way less than a headwind. If the tailwind hangs in, and is basically a steady situation down to the flare, you'll arrive with less power than usual, and a higher groundspeed. The sink rate is higher, and there's more vertical energy to dissipate. It's very easy to underflare...

If, on the other hand, the tailwind is stronger during the approach than it is approaching the flare (for instance 15 knots of tailwind becoming calm on the ground), you're effectively running into a 15 knot shear. The airspeed increases, and the aim point tends to move into the runway. So, you need to pitch down slightly, and need to reduce the power.

As you come into the flare, the aircraft response can vary quite a lot...and there's less if the power has been reduced early.

You can either carry some more speed, or use less flap, if the day is especially gusty.

All landings are dynamic...there are no rules other than "don't bend it".

In contrast, would the slight incline/decline of Melbourne 34/16 be easier to get a feel for if the pilot operated there frequently enough?

Most places are simple enough as long as you have a think about them beforehand. Melbourne 34 can be easily handled by simply flaring a little earlier than usual...the upslope will take care of that extra few feet. If it's gusty, then leave the power a bit longer. The old Hong Kong...nobody ever flew through the centreline off the IGS approach if they'd thought about the wind first...it gave you a bank angle to select for the turn. MEL 16..flare, and let it land...don't hold it off at all...and again the slope will smooth it out.

 

[jb747]

Just been updating my flying records, and realised that I've passed an interesting milestone. I've now got more hours in command on the A380 than I had on the 747. It won't ever reach the figure from the 767 though...I'll retire before that.

 

[Saab34]

JB

What would you describe as a more challenging airport (aka fun) in to operate into from your perspective?

What Aussie Airport has the most scenic approach and which runway approach is it?

 

[Melburnian1]

Perhaps jb747 in honour of your latest milestone you could change your username to jb380 (or jb388) but I appreciate that the Boeing may have a special place in your heart.

 

[jb747]

What would you describe as aore challenging airport (aka fun) in to operate into from your perspective?

What Aussie Airport has the most scenic approach and which runway approach is it?

I don't know. Sadly, whilst I get to fly the biggest jets...they don't get to go to the scenic places.

 

[JessicaTam]

I don't know. Sadly, whilst I get to fly the biggest jets...they don't get to go to the scenic places.

Time to "downguage"?

 

[Happy Trails]

Time to "downguage"?

Are you sure that's a measured response?

 

[Boris spatsky]

JB

What would you describe as a more challenging airport (aka fun) in to operate into from your perspective?

What Aussie Airport has the most scenic approach and which runway approach is it?

I always enjoyed Lord Howe Island in the Herc back in Air Force days. 2900 ft long, when heavy at night with pretty serious wind was always a challenge.

We don't have any particularly hairy approaches in Oz that i can think of for the jets. Nothing like some of those overseas.

 

[jb747]

Time to "downguage"?

Let me think about that....No!

 

[Ansett]

Hi JB do you have your schedule fro September yet? Wondering what you are flying on the 2nd/ 3rd September and the 7th/8th September.

 

[jb747]

Wondering what you are flying on the 2nd/ 3rd September and the 7th/8th September.

Nothing...those dates are between trips.

21/8 93 MEL-LAX
22/8 94 LAX-MEL

28/8 93 MEL-LAX
29/8 94 LAX-MEL

11/9 93 MEL-LAX
12/9 94 LAX-MEL

25/9 93 MEL-LAX
26/9 94 LAX-MEL

05/10 9 MEL-DXB
08/10 9 DXB-LHR
10/10 2 LHR-DXB
13/10 10 DXB-MEL

There will most likely be two days of sim work, but they haven't been scheduled yet.

 

[Himeno]

Nothing...those dates are between trips.

21/8 93 MEL-LAX
22/8 94 LAX-MEL

28/8 93 MEL-LAX
29/8 94 LAX-MEL

11/9 93 MEL-LAX
12/9 94 LAX-MEL

25/9 93 MEL-LAX
26/9 94 LAX-MEL

05/10 9 MEL-DXB
08/10 9 DXB-LHR
10/10 2 LHR-DXB
13/10 10 DXB-MEL

There will most likely be two days of sim work, but they haven't been scheduled yet.

When do you find out the Nov roster?
I'm looking at the LHR legs of 10 and 1 on 8/9 Nov.

It seems that every time I've been on a QF 380 for the last few years, I've missed you flying me by 1-2 days or I've been on the other flight (ie, QF12 while you're flying 94.)

 

[jb747]

When do you find out the Nov roster?

This roster only came out today...so the next one is 8 weeks away.

But, I think that it will be my turn for a 'blank line' in the next roster. That means no allocated flying, and mostly standby and ad hoc flying. Last time I did one, I don't think my feet touched the ground, but they can also be very quiet. Luck of the draw.

 

[mjt57]

Nothing...those dates are between trips.

29/8 94 LAX-MEL

Is that arrival back into MEL on the 29th?

I think that a friend is flying back on that one, but not sure.

 

[jb747]

Is that arrival back into MEL on the 29th?

I think that a friend is flying back on that one, but not sure.

Local date...in LA. So it arrives in Melbourne on the 31st.

 

[QF029]

From previous posts JB I don't think you're a fan of LAX and the US for your trips. Has something changed or is it just luck of the (seniority) draw.

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

Hi JB,
I notice in an earlier post you said that if there is an ILS it will always be tuned for
landing.
On the Gold Coast there is a lot of discussion about a new ILS system and the
resulting noise interference over residential areas currently free from aircraft
on final (basically the main tourist strip from Surfers to the south ).
The Gold Coast Airport claim that an ILS approach will only be used in bad weather.
Is it company policy that an ILS approach should be used regardless of the weather
conditions ?

 

[jb747]

From previous posts JB I don't think you're a fan of LAX and the US for your trips. Has something changed or is it just luck of the (seniority) draw.

There are positives and negatives to all of the trips.

An A380 pilot basing was started in Melbourne last year. The base is not big enough to do all of the Melbourne flying. For a variety of reasons, it suits the company to have the Melbourne based people do more of the LAs than London. So the upshot is that you get about 3 LAs for every London...and that's basically the standard roster.