Ask The Pilot

[andmiz]

How would engines be transported after the 747s are retired? Or have the bean counters not thought about it?

They can be broken down into their modules. For instance our A350 engines, which are larger than the 777's GE90's, can be carried in our 747 freighters.

 

[alieninperth]

Procedures will differ a bit around the world...so, whilst not standard to change your callsign unless ATC ask you to, the rules also state that it's permissible to add the comment (mayday/pan) on subsequent calls. Basically it's up the the pilot concerned (and his company procedures). It's evident throughout the video that the controller is offering help whilst trying not to distract...it all sounds pretty well managed.

The video in question is here: https://youtu.be/RPkZBR89y_M

Also worth noting that whilst I'm sure the newspapers would have reported it as being on fire....it wasn't. That's what a compressor stall looks like. A running jet engine is always on fire.

Thanks JB, I knew that you would have the answer

 

[jb747]

Love watching those types of videos - shows that one of the things we punters dread (engine problem on take-off) while no doubt serious, can be handled with the aircraft seeming to barely deviate from a 'normal' take-off attitude.

Could pilots talk us through what the coughpit would have been doing in the first 30-60 seconds after the bird strike? When the engine stopped 'backfiring' (30 seconds in), would that be the point when the engine was fully shut down?

Engine failure on take off is something that is practiced on every sim visit. The timing of the failure can be anywhere...from prior to V1 (in which case you abort), to just after (when you may need to continue the ground roll for quite some time), or anywhere in the initial climb out. Once airborne, the FBW aircraft do help to a degree by automatically feeding in some rudder (they try to reduce the sideslip). But, basically, you need to hold the wings level, smoothly apply some rudder, and lower the nose by a couple of degrees below the normal take off attitude. Whilst more power may be available on the good engine, there is no requirement to apply it, and an hurried application may make the situation worse. Trim the rudder force out, and then engage the autopilot. Once you reach 400 feet or so, you can get the ECAM actions under way.

The point (in the video) where the engine stops stalling is probably when the thrust lever is brought back to idle. Sometimes stalling will stop at an intermediate setting. If still stalled at idle, then fuel control off is the next step, and will certainly stop it.

There is no need to hurry. Yes, the engine will be making some horrid noises, and probably be shaking badly, but you can live with that. As was shown in Taiwan a year or so ago, haste at this point can be deadly.

Also, the 'mayday' call - in my profound ignorance, that seems rather acute for the 'engine failure' they called, with the plane apparently under control and landing gear going up; would that be the expected call say by an Australian pilot at an Australian airport (I note the comment above that procedures differ around the world)?

It's a twin engined aircraft, and he's just lost half of his power. He most likely didn't see the bird, so won't know why, and also can't really see the extent of the damage. Some parts of the world don't use PAN. Realistically, though, you don't need to be thinking about the call in that situation. Mayday will work just fine, and gets the right amount of attention.

 

[RooFlyer]

Thanks, as always.

 

[jb747]

I notice they are predicting strong winds in SYD on Friday.

Sydney Airport Wind Forecast, NSW - WillyWeather

Is there a wind limit for landing on the N/S runways in a Southerly ? Would the flare be a bit tricky ?

There's no outright wind limit for a headwind. But, once it gets nasty, you'll most likely start getting windshear, and then airlines (and pilots) will probably choose to avoid it. Outright limits also exist for opening doors on the ground, and that can affect operations too. Crosswinds are limiting for both take off and landing, and the limits reduce if it's wet.

7:00 UTC, 13/01/2016
TAF YSSY 131700Z 1318/1424
34010KT CAVOK
FM140500 19025G35KT 9999 -SHRA FEW010 BKN025
FM141200 19015G25KT 9999 -SHRA FEW010 BKN025
INTER 1405/1421 5000 SHRA BKN010
PROB30 TEMPO 1401/1405 3000 TSRA BKN010 SCT035CB
RMK FM140500 MOD TURB BLW 5000FT
T 23 27 32 35 Q 1010 1011 1010 1008

This is the aviation forecast for Thursday through to 11am on Friday. The winds from 4pm on Thursday are the highest, peaking at 35 knots. Resolving that for the runway direction, you'll looking at headwinds gusting between 22 and 31 knots. Crosswind comes out around 20 knots.

Landing on 16R, that wind will be passing over the terminals too, so that will most likely make it a bit more turbulent.

Tricky? A bit. I'm sure there will be a mix of very nice, and not so nice, landings whilst it's like that. A search on youtube for crosswind landings will give plenty of examples of both. In particular, you can find quite a few videos of aircraft being landed with the drift intact (i.e. not pointed down the runway). This is actually allowed, and in some cases the preferred way, of landing a Boeing. It's quite a no-no on Airbus...

To be honest, if a landing is on the black bit, preferably near the centreline and aim point, and the aircraft can be used the aircraft again without having to rebuild it first, most pilots will be happy. Most also couldn't care less about 'greasers' when the conditions are like the forecast.

 

[Major]

JB, again many thanks

 

[Boris spatsky]

See how we go. I am into SYD tomorrow arvo.

 

[Major]

See how we go. I am into SYD tomorrow arvo.

Have fun. I am into SYD lunch time Friday from OOL

 

[anat0l]

There is no need to hurry. Yes, the engine will be making some horrid noises, and probably be shaking badly, but you can live with that. As was shown in Taiwan a year or so ago, haste at this point can be deadly.

This is most interesting. Obviously, when most 'emergency' or matters of some danger occur, the instinct (after the body refurnishes itself with a course of adrenaline), the first instinct is usually to panic and/or act fast. People who are of the belief that those who train to handle such incidents are supposed to mentally equipped to furnish that preparedness to act quickly.

Certainly, whilst in the coughpit, the objective should be to maintain a level head and gradually but effectively stabilise the situation, from everywhere behind the coughpit everyone would be panicking why aren't we back to safety ASAP. I'd wager a similar thing happened on QF30 and QF32. I think this is why it takes considerable mental skill to be an effective pilot, since you can't afford to lose your **** in a situation were likely more than 80-85% of people would, even if they had the textbook skills to "deal" with it. It also takes skill to calmly explain to those who lost their marbles in the panic behind the coughpit that those upfront were doing the right thing, not trying to terrify them.

It's similar when it comes to dealing with a slip or other disturbance whilst driving; stay calm and readjust the car (stopping as necessary) smoothly. Slamming the brakes or trying to lock the wheel to one side may just lead to even more trouble.

 

[jb747]

If you are panicky, you have no place in a coughpit.

Very few emergencies require an immediate response. An engine failure on take off does, but it's a flying response, like a steering input in a car, so it's not something you think about. Once stable, there will again be a few seconds before there is any need to launch into a checklist. Rushing anything, be it a checklist or an approach is a good starting point for the various "Air Disaster" shows.

The first reaction to almost anything should be to reset the clock. It does no harm, and keeps hands away from things until the brain catches up. Imagine how much better the ATR accident in Taiwan might have turned out if they hadn't hurried to shut down the engine. There was no flying reason to rush.

 

[Boris spatsky]

It was fairly mundane for both our takeoff and landing. Wind was down the runway at 25 knots gusting 35, so windy but no crosswind. Sorry to disappoint!

 

[anat0l]

If you are panicky, you have no place in a coughpit.

Is this kind of mental requirement made very clear to those who are training to be a pilot?

What kinds of mechanisms or assessments - if any - are there in place to either mentally prepare those in training to be a pilot, or weed out those who are incapable? I assume if anyone studies hard enough, they can pass the textbook theories and maybe the sim (and real) practicals. I know there are psychological tests (for example, those that supposedly should have stopped the infamous pilot from Germanwings from taking an aircraft with him into the alps)...

 

[por930]

It was fairly mundane for both our takeoff and landing. Wind was down the runway at 25 knots gusting 35, so windy but no crosswind. Sorry to disappoint!

Umm Boris, in Brisbane, we had a FEDEX and UPS MD11 that decided Sydney was not too good for them. They landed in Brisbane late afternoon. I would imagine they decided some where over the Pacific to change arrival port. Most unusual for us to see a FEDEX and or a MD11

 

[jb747]

Is this kind of mental requirement made very clear to those who are training to be a pilot?

What kinds of mechanisms or assessments - if any - are there in place to either mentally prepare those in training to be a pilot, or weed out those who are incapable? I assume if anyone studies hard enough, they can pass the textbook theories and maybe the sim (and real) practicals.

I don't really know. There were lots of trick cyclist exams when joining, but after that you had no involvement with them.

I doubt that panicky people try to join the military, and in any event the training system will weed them out. It's as much a culling system as it is training. Keeping out those who shouldn't be there is as much an aim as training those who should.

Study will get you past exams. It's only a part of flights and sim work, and all of the components have to be present (airmanship, flying ability, etc).

 

[jb747]

Umm Boris, in Brisbane, we had a FEDEX and UPS MD11 that decided Sydney was not too good for them. They landed in Brisbane late afternoon. I would imagine they decided some where over the Pacific to change arrival port. Most unusual for us to see a FEDEX and or a MD11

I expect it had more to do with the TAF/METAR and alternate criteria than it did with actual conditions and whether they could land in them.

 

[por930]

It's quite a neat arrangement, and both loading and unloading happen in only an hour or two. There's an internal shroud which will stop the engine from being rotated in the breeze.

There's no particular training for it. Just a single page in the ops manual, and about three in the performance manual.

The ops manual basically says that there is a switch in the electronics bay that the engineers will need to move to tell the FMCs and air data computers about the pod. The ADCs will use new (reduced) limits for speeds, and the FMC will switch to a program that reflects the additional drag and performance penalties. The performance manual gives a heap of limitations, but speed is reduced to .78 mach. All maximum weights are reduced, and there's discussion of trim settings to offset the yaw.

I only carried a pod once, way back around 1990. It was an engine for a DC10 which had been overhauled in Sydney. It was noticeable, but not dramatically so.

Here is a link for comments about the QF flight with the 5th engine.Interesting that the QF guys were saying they stopped over in Perth as a precaution to make sure every thing ok, prior to the flight to Jo'burg.... https://www.youtube....h?v=HWfA3I_cALs

Also a great pic of a 777 engine being actually flight tested on a 747 as the number 2 engine...https://en.wikipedia...l_Electric_GE90 and a close up ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE90#/media/File:Ge-747-N747GE-020918-03.jpg

Be an interesting flight balancing the thrust from the 777 engine compared to the 747 engines

 

[jb747]

Here is a link for comments about the QF flight with the 5th engine.Interesting that the QF guys were saying they stopped over in Perth as a precaution to make sure every thing ok, prior to the flight to Jo'burg.... https://www.youtube....h?v=HWfA3I_cALs

I'm sure its security would be checked...but the reason for the stop was simply fuel. The aircraft doesn't have the range in that configuration.

Also a great pic of a 777 engine being actually flight tested on a 747 as the number 2 engine...https://en.wikipedia...l_Electric_GE90 and a close up ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_GE90#/media/File:Ge-747-N747GE-020918-03.jpg

Be an interesting flight balancing the thrust from the 777 engine compared to the 747 engines

They would be carrying flight test engineers, who would set up the engine(s) for all of the testing. Carriage of new engines for testing purposes is common.

 

[defurax]

Roster time. Always an interesting time of year, as people try to juggle Christmas and family events. Over the years, I've had very few Christmases off, but the gods are being kinder to me now.

Anyway, it consists entirely of QF93/94.
QF93 29 Dec, QF94 30 Dec
QF93 5 Jan, QF94 6 Jan
QF93 19 Jan, QF94 20 Jan
QF93 31 Jan, QF94 1 Feb
QF93 6 Feb, QF94 7 Feb

Hi JB, do you have your new roster for February? (sorry if already posted, but couldn't find it).

 

[RailFlyer]

If a plane is taken out of use due to a fault, do the maintenance teams ever require a "test flight" to make sure the issue is resolved like a car mechanic might? If so is this a job given to line pilots?

Surely there are some reported faults which can't be easily replicated on the ground (gear not retracting, or excessive engine vibration/noise reported at high power etc)? Obviously most faults are probably found easily, but there will always be those which are hard to diagnose that I am thinking of.

 

[jb747]

Hi JB, do you have your new roster for February? (sorry if already posted, but couldn't find it).

Not for another week or so. I was bumped off the 93/94 on the 19th/20 Jan.