Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

If a plane is taken out of use due to a fault, do the maintenance teams ever require a "test flight" to make sure the issue is resolved like a car mechanic might? If so is this a job given to line pilots?

Test flights happen after very major work (think QF30 and 32). In each case the aircraft was run through the full new aircraft acceptance testing, over a couple of flights. This will never devolve to line Captains.

Surely there are some reported faults which can't be easily replicated on the ground (gear not retracting, or excessive engine vibration/noise reported at high power etc)? Obviously most faults are probably found easily, but there will always be those which are hard to diagnose that I am thinking of.

High power runs can be done on the ground. Gear can also be retracted (!). Sometimes a fault will be written off and may recur, or a request may be entered for further reports, but in this digital age, test flights are very rare.

 

[mjt57]

Not for another week or so. I was bumped off the 93/94 on the 19th/20 Jan.

What happened there? If we may be so bold as to ask?

 

[Awesom Andy]

Gear can also be retracted (!).

Although probably not in this way: Accident: Singapore A333 at Singapore on Oct 11th 2015, aircraft "kneeling" at the gate

 

[por930]

JB, I guess in the airbus family, auto-throttle in climb detent is the norm, even when the AP is disconnected on final approach. Do you ever resort to manual throttles on approach, just to keep your hand in, on the line or in the sim? As you know better than I, airplanes try to kill us all the time. Finding you have "lost" your auto-throttle on approach is not really the time to think, Ummm, wonder how we do this? I realise, you have full manual control in take off.

I imagine Boris, you flying smaller jets, manual throttles still in vogue?

I was recently reading some posts in PPrune, how many of the newer airline pilot cadets have never flown without auto-throttles and many of them without full auto pilot assist. One captain(B737) was saying he always uses no auto pilot where ATC and weather allows to 20,000, but his FO's have never been taught the skill(or for that matter, encouraged) Of course, these days some airlines Standard Ops Procs, often mandate full auto throttle, even with manual flying, such as the B777. As I said earlier, just hope you guys practise manual throttles, even if it is only in the sim.

 

[day-heg]

I was recently reading some posts in PPrune, how many of the newer airline pilot cadets have never flown without auto-throttles and many of them without full auto pilot assist. One captain(B737) was saying he always uses no auto pilot where ATC and weather allows to 20,000, but his FO's have never been taught the skill(or for that matter, encouraged) Of course, these days some airlines Standard Ops Procs, often mandate full auto throttle, even with manual flying, such as the B777. As I said earlier, just hope you guys practise manual throttles, even if it is only in the sim.

From a cadet point of view, in the early days it's about managing workload. Early on I doubt you'll find many hand flying much beyond 1000ft on the way up or before that on the way down. Moving on however, with initial line training completed, 100-odd sectors (and thus 35-50ish landings) under the belt confidence should grow and it will evolve. Ask me again in April....

SOPs vary from airline to airline... my company encourages manual flying up to and beyond FL100 on the departure, and from top of descent all the way down, with the obvious caveat that it's appropriate and safe. cough weather and busy London airspace is probably not the time nor place to try your first hand flown SID... maybe find a Greek island when it's CAVOK instead.

Auto thrust - on the way up it will to be on, on the way down - again - appropriate use of manual is encouraged. Thinking being that if A/THR is always on, crew can potentially slip into bad habits and not scan speed trends as often as they should, so are out of practice when a failure forces a man thrust approach. Asking for trouble...

Talking of which, BA dictate A/THR is always on, leading to "excluding simulator training, [the Commander] had last flown the A320-series aircraft using manual thrust seven years before the accident" - this being the A319 out of Heathrow with the unlatched cowls. I wonder if that SOP will change in time...

(P.S. Update coming on my type rating training and first weeks on the job)

 

[jb747]

What happened there? If we may be so bold as to ask?

The most common reason for this sort of change is 'recency'. If you haven't operated within a prescribed time, you're 'unqualified', and will need a visit to the sim before you can fly again. Sometimes, to avoid this, someone else is displaced from their own trip, to allow a pilot to fly before running out of recency.

In this instance, the FO has been off for a while, and needed to fly with a training Captain before being cleared back to the line. So I end up displaced. Annoying, but that's airline life.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Annoying, but that's airline life.

Just love this sentence - do you mind if I use that from time to time jb albeit with a slight twist?

 

[jb747]

JB, I guess in the airbus family, auto-throttle in climb detent is the norm, even when the AP is disconnected on final approach. Do you ever resort to manual throttles on approach, just to keep your hand in, on the line or in the sim? As you know better than I, airplanes try to kill us all the time. Finding you have "lost" your auto-throttle on approach is not really the time to think, Ummm, wonder how we do this? I realise, you have full manual control in take off.

Manual thrust is common enough in sim exercises. The failure can be initiated in many ways, perhaps a total loss of automatics with reversion to a lower law, or as in a recent one, failure of the auto thrust to engage after take off. On the line in the 380, it's never done, though I'm told that the 330 system is nowhere near as good, and it's common on that aircraft to use manual thrust, especially when the winds are gusty. The only time I've used manual thrust in a real 380 was associated with many other failures, and a law reversion...back in the early days.

The 380 isn't really an aircraft to be practicing in. You can book a late night sim session if you really feel the need. But, virtually every time I fly an approach it's after a very long, middle of the night, flight. That's not really the time the be practicing anything. It also tends to be a busy ATC environment, and such practice has the effect of loading up the monitoring pilot. Beyond that, the aircraft simply hasn't been designed to make manual thrust an attractive option. The levers are quite a reach, stiff, but quite sensitive. The EECs also will not keep the thrust levels aligned. This contrasts starkly with the sidestick, which is very close, and very light. The controls are basically unbalanced.

 

[jb747]

From a cadet point of view, in the early days it's about managing workload. Early on I doubt you'll find many hand flying much beyond 1000ft on the way up or before that on the way down. Moving on however, with initial line training completed, 100-odd sectors (and thus 35-50ish landings) under the belt confidence should grow and it will evolve. Ask me again in April....

How things change. 35-50 was approximately the number of landings that each SO did in the real 747 during Avalon base training, over the period of five days.

SOPs vary from airline to airline... my company encourages manual flying up to and beyond FL100 on the departure, and from top of descent all the way down, with the obvious caveat that it's appropriate and safe.

Airline SOPs always have that caveat; it's a way of passing the buck. Manual thrust in most descents consists of idle, so it's not much of a training issue there either. Manual thrust from about 14 miles is of some value, but prior to that is just a way of reducing the attention placed on the big picture.

Auto thrust - on the way up it will to be on, on the way down - again - appropriate use of manual is encouraged. Thinking being that if A/THR is always on, crew can potentially slip into bad habits and not scan speed trends as often as they should, so are out of practice when a failure forces a man thrust approach. Asking for trouble...

I rather expect that you'd end up with more trouble with people willy nilly flying manually. The speed tape should be showing trends, and that's right in front of you. The instrument that will slip out of the scan is the actual power setting.

Talking of which, BA dictate A/THR is always on, leading to "excluding simulator training, [the Commander] had last flown the A320-series aircraft using manual thrust seven years before the accident" - this being the A319 out of Heathrow with the unlatched cowls. I wonder if that SOP will change in time...

To be replaced by reports talking about practicing in the aircraft, rather than in the sim. Perhaps the issue is that for most of us sim sessions are less about training than they are about surviving sudden death scenarios dreamt up in offices.

 

[jb747]

Just love this sentence - do you mind if I use that from time to time jb albeit with a slight twist?

I don't have copyright on any of the words....

 

[RailFlyer]

Is it possible to operate a 777-200 safely to/from WLG with the current runway length? Obviously some people think it is. What would the landing speed be on a no wind day compared to a 737/A320? The small jets don't seem to have much runway left to stop on some days. Does the 777 just have much bigger brakes so it can stop in a similar distance, despite is much bigger mass?

 

[RailFlyer]

PS Congratulations on reaching 900 pages JB747. Only another 100 pages of answering our questions to go until you can retire!?

 

[jb747]

Is it possible to operate a 777-200 safely to/from WLG with the current runway length? Obviously some people think it is. What would the landing speed be on a no wind day compared to a 737/A320? The small jets don't seem to have much runway left to stop on some days. Does the 777 just have much bigger brakes so it can stop in a similar distance, despite is much bigger mass?

I'd have to admit that I was surprised to hear that a 777 was to be used instead of an A330. Airbus generally have slower approach speeds than (roughly) equivalent Boeings.

How many 777s operate to 16L in Sydney? About the same length, but without the nasty winds.

I guess they'll work their numbers out, and if the margin is legal, then they can operate. The conditions there can be extremely challenging...it will be very interesting to see the videos when they start to appear.

 

[Boris spatsky]

I imagine Boris, you flying smaller jets, manual throttles still in vogue?
.

No, not really. We are required to keep the autothrottle in for the majority of the flight until a designated point during the landing.

Our last sim included a sector each with the autothrottle MEL'd (that is, not functioning and locked out by the engineers).

Good praccy, but really it's just like going back to flying whatever you learnt on without autothrottle! Not sure how that works with multi crew course only graduates though.

 

[jb747]

Good praccy, but really it's just like going back to flying whatever you learnt on without autothrottle! Not sure how that works with multi crew course only graduates though.

You mean that flying stuff....you have to have learnt it somewhere first.

 

[jb747]

PS Congratulations on reaching 900 pages JB747. Only another 100 pages of answering our questions to go until you can retire!?

At that rate, I'll have to go at the end of the year. A bit earlier than planned, but you never know.....

 

[RooFlyer]

PS Congratulations on reaching 900 pages JB747. Only another 100 pages of answering our questions to go until you can retire!?

At that rate, I'll have to go at the end of the year. A bit earlier than planned, but you never know.....

Only 225 pages for my set-up ... .

 

[clazman]

At that rate, I'll have to go at the end of the year. A bit earlier than planned, but you never know.....

Sure if we give a standing ovation we could get a further 500 pages

 

[Quickstatus]

Jb747, friend of mine in Colorado owns a single engine Cessna. He used to do flight tours in Alaska now living in DEN. He says he only flies VFR. His reasoning is that instrument flying requires 2 pilots to do it properly. What do you think?.

 

[jb747]

Sure if we give a standing ovation we could get a further 500 pages

You just have to come up with the questions....