Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

I made the comment the other day, that "every take off is a potential abort, and every landing a potential go around". Did the go around part this morning. ECAM for an issue that was quickly fixed, but it proved the point. I'm not sure, but I think my last go around would have been about 10 years ago, in a 747 at Melbourne.

 

[D747]

I made the comment the other day, that "every take off is a potential abort, and every landing a potential go around". Did the go around part this morning. ECAM for an issue that was quickly fixed, but it proved the point. I'm not sure, but I think my last go around would have been about 10 years ago, in a 747 at Melbourne.

Can you tell us what occurred JB?

 

[jb747]

Can you tell us what occurred JB?

Probably best not to go into too much detail. Many systems and events on the aircraft have timers associated with them, so if they take too long to occur, they can throw up warnings. As a general rule, any warning on approach should lead to a go around, simply as it's best to sort anything out whilst not approaching the ground at 700 fpm.

The ECAM self cancelled during the go around, as the system had decided it was now a happy camper. So apart from carrying out the G/A, we didn't need to do anything.

 

[mjt57]

I'm surprised that the dreaded "plane forced down" or "emergency on landing" headlines haven't flooded the media...

 

[jb747]

I'm surprised that the dreaded "plane forced down" or "emergency on landing" headlines haven't flooded the media...

Perhaps it could say "Pilots correctly carried out go around". Training works. Non event.

 

[D747]

Perhaps it could say "Pilots correctly carried out go around". Training works. Non event.

That won't sell many advertisements! Did this happen in Melbourne JB?

 

[aussiel]

I made the comment the other day, that "every take off is a potential abort, and every landing a potential go around". Did the go around part this morning. ECAM for an issue that was quickly fixed, but it proved the point. I'm not sure, but I think my last go around would have been about 10 years ago, in a 747 at Melbourne.

Is a go around always noticeable from a passenger's perspective (using an assumption that the passenger doesn't know the usual flights path)? If it's early enough, is there ever a case that it doesn't involve sudden increases in thrust and pitch?

 

[Flying Fox]

Do G/A's end up on a pilot's performance review?

 

[anat0l]

I'm surprised that the dreaded "plane forced down" or "emergency on landing" headlines haven't flooded the media...

If we dragged someone over the coals every time they didn't get a reverse parallel park or even a normal park the first time, either we'd thin out the population really quickly or we'd fast run out of coal.

The manic logic of some people sometimes...


Then, of course, you have those who are thrilled to be part of a go-around; that re-surging of power and taking back off into the skies...


Surprisingly, news outlets have kind of backed off the little quibble carping on airlines these days.

Anyway, back to the pilots doing the talking here...

 

[docjames]

Does a Go Around trigger any sort of safety report or other internal report?

Or is it sufficiently "routine" that that isn't required? Or is it dependant on the cause of the go-around?

 

[jb747]

Is a go around always noticeable from a passenger's perspective (using an assumption that the passenger doesn't know the usual flights path)? If it's early enough, is there ever a case that it doesn't involve sudden increases in thrust and pitch?

There are many cases in which it would not be noticeable. In LA for example, if you are approaching 24R, the go around altitude is only 2,000 ft. So, a very early go around could have you descending initially to that. In general, in the A380, below 1,000 ft it will be TO/GA, but almost immediately reduced to MCT, which will give a soft go around mode. Above 1,000', TO/GA, then immediately back to CLB. And above, 2,000' just a gentle level off.

In this case, it was TO/GA, MCT, CLB, over just a few seconds. The kick from TO/GA was very strong, and my immediate reaction was that I didn't want that much.

 

[jb747]

Do G/A's end up on a pilot's performance review?

No unless you really cough it up. Or it happens to be your annual route check...which this was. Do it right and it makes you look good.

 

[jb747]

Does a Go Around trigger any sort of safety report or other internal report?

Or is it sufficiently "routine" that that isn't required? Or is it dependant on the cause of the go-around?

There are lots of reasons for a go around. Some may require an incident report, others are just non events. The company requests that we drop them an email saying why, but only so that they can answer any queries.

It's a normal aviation event... A go around is carried out because the option to continue would have resulted in something undesirable. The vast majority of the go arounds that I have done have been in response to weather issues, especially wind gusts.

 

[Flying Fox]

No unless you really cough it up. Or it happens to be your annual route check...which this was. Do it right and it makes you look good.

What's a route check?

 

[N860CR]

What's a route check?

On Top of the regular simulator assessments, crews are assessed once a year during a normal flight. This involves the crew member being paired with a check captain who assess the normal operation and orally addresses any number of other items.

 

[HW]

There are lots of reasons for a go around. Some may require an incident report, others are just non events. The company requests that we drop them an email saying why, but only so that they can answer any queries.

It's a normal aviation event... A go around is carried out because the option to continue would have resulted in something undesirable. The vast majority of the go arounds that I have done have been in response to weather issues, especially wind gusts.

I've experienced quite a few go arounds, almost all of them are explained as "aircraft in front didn't vacate the runway in time". I'm a little bit suspicious that this phrase is used by the pilots so as to not spook the passengers. Is this phrase the norm or do you usually announce what the issue was?

 

[mannej]

Talking about go-arounds, I was on QF719 last Sunday night (11th). The last few thousand meters was like a roller coaster, but no go-around.

Was there anything in the METARs suggesting that the weather close to PER would be like that?

 

[jb747]

I've experienced quite a few go arounds, almost all of them are explained as "aircraft in front didn't vacate the runway in time". I'm a little bit suspicious that this phrase is used by the pilots so as to not spook the passengers. Is this phrase the norm or do you usually announce what the issue was?

Airlines have entire departments devoted to marketing, aka, spin, and the pilots don't belong to them.

For us, it is much simpler to give a very short version of what is actually happening. I don't have the time for elaborate tales, when most of my attention is on the go around, sorting out whatever issues there may be, and then flying the next approach.

The aircraft in front being too slow (on the approach, to clear the runway, to cross the runway, to take off, and so on) is a very common problem, which, if anything, is getting worse as the traffic density at airports increases. Very large aircraft don't necessarily help either, as they can be very slow to get moving. Sometimes that's the pilots' fault, and at other times ATC seem to suffer a fit of wishful thinking.

I can recall a 767 departing in front of me from Melbourne 16 (as I approached in a 767). ATC had left plenty of space, and he was quickly off the mark. All looked good until he had to abort. So, there are lots and lots of reasons.

Go arounds are caused by:
Weather (especially wind)
ATC / other aircraft
Mechanical issues / warnings
Pilot mistakes (generally too much energy)

 

[jb747]

Talking about go-arounds, I was on QF719 last Sunday night (11th). The last few thousand meters was like a roller coaster, but no go-around.

Was there anything in the METARs suggesting that the weather close to PER would be like that?

I haven't had cause to look at Perth for a couple of weeks, but last time I did, they were only operating on the shorter runway, and the wind was nasty.

It is a genuinely isolated airport. There are no reasonable alternates within easy reach. It has a line of hills nearby. It is renowned for fog in winter, and wind all of the time.

So, it sounds like a normal arrival to Perth.

 

[jb747]

On Top of the regular simulator assessments, crews are assessed once a year during a normal flight. This involves the crew member being paired with a check captain who assess the normal operation and orally addresses any number of other items.

The check Captain is an extra member of the crew, and sits in one of the 'observer/SO' seats. There are some items he'll always ask about, but he has pretty free reign to ask about anything. He is not part of the crew, and does not contribute to anything that is going on...he's there to assess. Basically they just want to see a normal operation, with the myriad things that can come up that are both normal and not, handled properly.

Thousands of these checks happen every year in my airline alone. That leaves room for just about anything imaginable to happen...so they'll see flights that are boring and flights that are just too exciting. QF32 was a route check. And people do fail these checks...so they are not to be taken lightly.