Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

I think there is a mandatory retirement age for commercial pilots in Australia. (?65?). Is that law, or airline imposed? Either way, do our pilots think there may be some 'stretching' / relaxing of that age limit coming up, subject to strict medicals? Is it under discussion at all in the regulators 'space'?

There is no Australian age limit. But, there is an international one. It has gone up and down a couple of times over the past fewe years, but at the moment, you have to stop the day before your 65th birthday. If you want to keep going, to pay for that fourth wife, then you need to transfer to domestic ops.

Overseas, the rumours have it that some regulators are talking about changing it, but not necessarily to a higher age. To be honest, I’m in favour of a hard limit. Increasing the age limit, just to alleviate a self induced shortage doesn’t seem to be the sensible way to tackle the problem.

Medicals are painful enough now. Making them more so is likely to have the effect of catching more people prior to the current retirement age. Most of us are just sick of sitting up all night by the time retirement approaches, and whilst we’ll miss the take off and landing bit, and perhaps the pay packet, the rest...not so much.

Pushing the retirement age out also has the effect of increasing the level of promotion stagnation that the younger guys have already suffered through. In my career I’ve seen the age increase by 8 years, which simply has the effect of giving those at the top of the heap more time there, whilst increasing the levels of anger and frustration for those below.

 

[jb747]

jb, while I've discarded it, the print edition of last Friday's 'Oz' (with what is now usually a single page on 'aviation' tucked away on about page 30, business section) had a large ad from QF promoting that it was hiring flight crew.

Surprising because I'd have thought QF would always, like most mainline airlines in Western countries, have a huge number wanting to join it.

Which would fit in with the rumours. Pity you can’t find it though, as I’ll bet it says the group, and not specifically mainline. Some are much more attractive than others.

 

[Melburnian1]

...I’ll bet it says the group, and not specifically mainline. Some are much more attractive than others.

That's my memory of it too. A hunt in the recycling bin awaits.

 

[Melburnian1]

On the money jb.

Ad was in 'The Australian' Fri 23/3/18 page 28.

About a quarter of the page.

"We're hiring pilots. Jon the Qantas group. ...Join a network of talented professionals. Apply now at qantas(dot)com(backslash)careers.

It then had the company names (logos) at bottom for Qantas/Jetstar/Qantaslink, all neatly in a row.

Ad where the words were was backgrounded in red but at top was an image of a 'red roo' tail plus behind it the 'jet *' tail.

 

[VPS]

The joys of digital newspapers

 

[lastrow]

And it's far more than a QF plan will normally give you.

There was never any danger of them running out of fuel. Only of them not making it to London. There are plenty of options within Europe.

Apart from running out of fuel what other dangers are there which could prevent the flight from making it to London?

 

[jb747]

Apart from running out of fuel what other dangers are there which could prevent the flight from making it to London?

Running out of fuel isn't necessarily a case of having it all go quiet, as it might in your car. There are various fuel requirements, which often change after you're airborne, that you need to be able to fulfil. For instance, if the weather deteriorated, and required more holding than you have, or an alternate that you couldn't cover, then you would need to divert.

Any sort of medical problem requiring a diversion will be much more of a hassle than in previous aircraft. The crew simply don't have enough leeway on flight time limits to be able to add much to the duty day.

 

[Melburnian1]

...Any sort of medical problem requiring a diversion will be much more of a hassle than in previous aircraft. The crew simply don't have enough leeway on flight time limits to be able to add much to the duty day.

jb, like any business, airlines fear negative publicity.

My GP says about 25 per cent of heart attacks cannot be predicted, as one example of adverse health that can occur at any time.

That said, is it time for airlines operating flights of above say 15 hours' duration (i.e. PER - LHR return) to impose an age limit of passengers, say no one over 75?

Would be controversial, and wouldn't eliminate medical diversions, but maybe minimise them a little. Or is just more sensible to rely on defibrillators and the urgent call for drron to put up his or her hand?

Can you count medical diversions during your commercial flying career on the fingers of both hands, i.e. very uncommon? Surely having more longer flights increases the chances of such a bit.

 

[jb747]

My GP says about 25 per cent of heart attacks cannot be predicted, as one example of adverse health that can occur at any time.

That said, is it time for airlines operating flights of above say 15 hours' duration (i.e. PER - LHR return) to impose an age limit of passengers, say no one over 75?

Would be controversial, and wouldn't eliminate medical diversions, but maybe minimise them a little. Or is just more sensible to rely on defibrillators and the urgent call for drron to put up his or her hand?

Can you count medical diversions during your commercial flying career on the fingers of both hands, i.e. very uncommon? Surely having more longer flights increases the chances of such a bit.

I suspect that people are going to make their own decisions about ultra long haul flights, and whether they want to 'get it over with' or have the option of breaking the journey. Anyone who even considers DVT will think long and hard about them.

Touching wood as I say this, but I've only ever had two medical issues serious enough to cause a diversion, and in both cases the person involved died. Neither were anywhere near the age you mention.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Most of us are just sick of sitting up all night by the time retirement approaches, and whilst we’ll miss the take off and landing bit, and perhaps the pay packet, the rest...not so much..

If take off and landing provides the professional enjoyment, wouldn’t shorthaul be the more rewarding option?

With the right sectors you could get four of each in a single day.

 

[JessicaTam]

The captain (Andrew) on my QF10 LHR-PER on Sunday came down the back for a chat. He mentioned that he had come from command on a 737 to the 787. He had also spent some time flying JQ 787s as part of his training.

Would Andrew have to have been especially senior to beat A380/747 captains to the 787? Or was there not the demand?

And now that QF and JQ are using the same aircraft is it likely that some pilots could be used on both? E.g. on standby.

 

[jb747]

If take off and landing provides the professional enjoyment, wouldn’t shorthaul be the more rewarding option?

With the right sectors you could get four of each in a single day.

You forget that I flew the 767 for a long time, and it did a lot of short haul.

 

[jb747]

The captain (Andrew) on my QF10 LHR-PER on Sunday came down the back for a chat. He mentioned that he had come from command on a 737 to the 787. He had also spent some time flying JQ 787s as part of his training.

Would Andrew have to have been especially senior to beat A380/747 captains to the 787? Or was there not the demand?

He's probably quite junior. Many of the 787 Captains are ex Australian Airlines short haul people. The 787 is a lower type in the scheme of things to the 380 and 747, so not only is movement in that direction restricted, virtually nobody would want it.

And now that QF and JQ are using the same aircraft is it likely that some pilots could be used on both? E.g. on standby.

No.

 

[JessicaTam]

Cheers, thanks.

 

[Captain Halliday]

You forget that I flew the 767 for a long time, and it did a lot of short haul.

I hadn’t forgotten in your case. .

I guess in the context of the earlier discussion of the 65th birthday limit for international, along with your remark that takeoffs and landings are where the fun is, my question was a little more broad: Why wouldn’t more pilots consider shorthaul before retirement?

Pay cut? Fewer days at home? No desire to do the conversion? Other?

 

[jb747]

I guess in the context of the earlier discussion of the 65th birthday limit for international, along with your remark that takeoffs and landings are where the fun is, my question was a little more broad: Why wouldn’t more pilots consider shorthaul before retirement?

Take offs and landings would very rapidly cease being fun. About day two.

Pay cut? Fewer days at home? No desire to do the conversion? Other?

There's three good reasons for a start. Add a much higher percentage of your day as being dead..you're only paid for the flying bit, but the percentage of wasted time on the ground goes right up. A contract that is straight from the aftermath of the '89 dispute, which includes extensions to the CASA flight time limits to times that I would never want to work.

The 767 people called Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane 'the monorail'. And not lovingly.

At the moment, I'm not even planning on going to 65. My 4th and 3rd last sims will appear in the next roster. Plans can change, but even going to 65 isn't on the agenda. Going beyond. Yuck.

 

[AviatorInsight]

If take off and landing provides the professional enjoyment, wouldn’t shorthaul be the more rewarding option?

With the right sectors you could get four of each in a single day.

Usually it's broken up between the two pilots anyway. I've got a long 4 sector day today and I already can't wait to get to bed tonight. I usually bid for the longer flights (to minimise the amount of sectors) but the system can't always guarantee that for me so I end up with days like today. It gets worse when you change crew and change planes on every sector. Makes for a very tiring day.

 

[docjames]

@jb747, is your April flight schedule released yet? Have the post-March 25th changes shown themselves?

 

[Quickstatus]

I've got a long 4 sector day today and I already can't wait to get to bed tonight.

How many hours from front door of house to 4 sector to front door of house? (Assuming at the end of the 4 sectors you get to go home)

BTW do Pilots in commercial aviation where "catering" is provided, do some bring in their own lunch?.
I cant imagine eating the same airline food day in day out

 

[jb747]

@jb747, is your April flight schedule released yet? Have the post-March 25th changes shown themselves?

02/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
03/4 QF36 Sin-Mel

07/4 QF93 Mel-LA
08/4 QF94 LA-Mel

14/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
15/4QF36 Sin-Mel

17/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
18/4QF36 Sin-Mel
Update: This trip has been moved forward from what I originally posted. Basically, it merges two trips into one longer one.

04/5 QF35 Mel-Sin
05/5QF36 Sin-Mel

10/5QF93 Mel-LA
11/5QF94 LA-Mel

25/5QF93 Mel-LA
26/5QF94 LA-Mel