Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

How many hours from front door of house to 4 sector to front door of house? (Assuming at the end of the 4 sectors you get to go home)

BTW do Pilots in commercial aviation where "catering" is provided, do some bring in their own lunch?.
I cant imagine eating the same airline food day in day out

It's usually about 14hrs for me door to door (dependant on location) on a daily basis. Sometimes about 12-14hrs off and you're at it again. Tonight however I end up in ADL after 11hrs 35min. Not out until tomorrow afternoon for ADL-PER-BNE (which I'll see how much fuel we could actually get away with in one go, although not load it on of course).

I regularly bring my own food as do many others. Some however are happy with eating the same thing day in and day out. They're not all that healthy anyway and a sure way to pack on the kg's!

 

[jb747]

How many hours from front door of house to 4 sector to front door of house? (Assuming at the end of the 4 sectors you get to go home)

That could easily be in the 15-16 hour region.

BTW do Pilots in commercial aviation where "catering" is provided, do some bring in their own lunch?.
I cant imagine eating the same airline food day in day out

I don't recall seeing anyone bring anything from home, but visits to the concessions within the terminal are pretty common. The same package of 4 quarter sandwiches, day in and day out, does have an element of deja vu to it.

And whilst we are on the subject of crew sandwiches....they make you realise how much everyone else must hate you. There's little other reason for some of the gems that have made the recurring menu. One was named the green slime sandwich. Another was nothing but eggplant. A current one is nothing artichoke. And then there was the salad sandwich, which consisted of a couple of lumps of red/green pepper. I'm sure they cost actual money to make, but most simply make the journey to the bin.

 

[QF WP]

I don't recall seeing anyone bring anything from home, but visits to the concessions within the terminal are pretty common. The same package of 4 quarter sandwiches, day in and day out, does have an element of deja vu to it.

And whilst we are on the subject of crew sandwiches....they make you realise how much everyone else must hate you. There's little other reason for some of the gems that have made the recurring menu. One was named the green slime sandwich. Another was nothing but eggplant. A current one is nothing artichoke. And then there was the salad sandwich, which consisted of a couple of lumps of red/green pepper. I'm sure they cost actual money to make, but most simply make the journey to the bin.

They must think you are all vegetarians or should be on diets - I'd have thought that Crew catering would have been better than that - the last thing they need is an incapacitated Captain/FO on a longhaul due to poor catering.

Artichoke - that's an acquired taste for us non-vegetarians.

 

[jb747]

They must think you are all vegetarians or should be on diets - I'd have thought that Crew catering would have been better than that - the last thing they need is an incapacitated Captain/FO on a longhaul due to poor catering.

Apparently half of the sandwiches have to be vegetarian. So that means that half are inedible, and the other half are cholesterol bombs.

Artichoke - that's an acquired taste for us non-vegetarians.

I don't mind artichoke or eggplant...but NEVER in a sandwich.

 

[mjt57]

Apparently half of the sandwiches have to be vegetarian.

My wife would love to hear this. She struggles to get a vege friendly meal on her flights (doesn't matter which airline it is). One flight they forgot her meal. Is fish OK, she was asked...
But for breakfast, given that was forgotten too she was asked if having pancakes was OK. Yeah, sure. They were nice too. God knows what her vege meal was if pancakes wasn't considered vegetarian...

Given that you have to travel to get to the airport, I take it that bringing your own lunch/dinner/breakfast isn't really an option. It must be quite a juggling act for the crews to get decent and varied meals.

 

[jb747]

My wife would love to hear this. She struggles to get a vege friendly meal on her flights (doesn't matter which airline it is).

Vegetarian food can be fine. But these particular sandwiches are not. Honestly they could turn a vegetarian into a meat eater.

 

[flyer89]

The SOs must pilfer all the good stuff whilst your getting some shut eye...

 

[lastrow]

I am interested in diversions. You mentioned two medical cases, where did you divert to in these instances. Have you done many diversions?
I imagine the decision to divert would not be taken lightly. What occurrences would cause you to divert and what factors must you consider. A short time ago I recall that a Malaysian 777 diverted to Alice Springs. What do you do with the passengers? Is there engineering support available?
What are the protocols that apply?

 

[docjames]

Thanks for the roster @jb747 . Plenty of MEL-SIN-MEL there!

Miss you on both a MEL-LAX and a SIN-MEL by a couple of days.

 

[Himeno]

02/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
03/4 QF36 Sin-Mel

07/4 QF93 Mel-LA
08/4 QF94 LA-Mel

14/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
15/4QF36 Sin-Mel

17/4 QF35 Mel-Sin
18/4QF36 Sin-Mel
Update: This trip has been moved forward from what I originally posted. Basically, it merges two trips into one longer one.

04/5 QF35 Mel-Sin
05/5QF36 Sin-Mel

10/5QF93 Mel-LA
11/5QF94 LA-Mel

25/5QF93 Mel-LA
26/5QF94 LA-Mel

Roster for start of July would come out in May?
I'm looking at an LAX trip for early July. Plotting which connection to make (for this trip last year, I took 15 out and 12 back)

 

[jb747]

I am interested in diversions. You mentioned two medical cases, where did you divert to in these instances. Have you done many diversions?
I imagine the decision to divert would not be taken lightly. What occurrences would cause you to divert and what factors must you consider. A short time ago I recall that a Malaysian 777 diverted to Alice Springs. What do you do with the passengers? Is there engineering support available?
What are the protocols that apply?

My list of diversions over 33 years is pretty short.

Narita - Brisbane (747-200) diverted to Townsville due weather. Unforecast thunderstorms.

Singapore - Brisbane (767) diverted to Townsville due weather. Unforecast thunderstorms.

Perth - Singapore (767) returned to Perth, engine shutdown.

Singapore - Sydney (767) diverted to Melbourne due weather. Fog.

Brisbane - Hong Kong (767) medical. Weather stopped us diverting to Manila.

Hong Kong - Melbourne (747-400) diverted to Manila, aircraft problems.

Singapore - London (747-400) diverted to Amsterdam, due London weather. Crosswind outside limits.

London - Singapore (A380), initiated the diversion to Bangkok, medical. Ultimately diverted again, back to Singapore.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

The company puts out a list (and map) of places that we can use for diversions. They are graded by suitability. Some will be suitable as normal destinations, and will have full services, and contract will be in place for anything needed. Others might not be quite as good, but still have contracts in place. The third level are suitable for use in an emergency only. Service contracts aren't a concern. Sitting below that, of course, is the knowledge that if worse comes to worse, any bit of bitumen of about 7,000' will do, and the subsequent condition of the aircraft may not enter the equation.

In most cases, you have at least some time to preplan your diversion. If the weather is deteriorating, you should see that happening as the reports change, and have a loose plan of attack at the very least. Sometimes changes will happen suddenly, for instance on the day we diverted from London to Amsterdam, we'd been looking at Amsterdam earlier, but the plan was to go to Stansted or Birmingham. The change happened in the go around, when the weather at the alternatives went below what we could use. Following an aircraft problem, there will be no time to plan, so it's just common sense to keep track of the options as a flight progresses.

On a flight from Melbourne to LA, we'll keep updating the FMC fix pages, and weather for the possible alternates. So, Sydney, Brisbane, Noumea, Auckland, Nadi, Pago, Kona, Honolulu, Hilo, San Franciso, Ontario, Phoenix.

Making the diversion happen, is really just a case of picking a route we want to use, and then having a chat to ATC (either via radio or data link). At some point in there we'll try to send the company a data link message.

 

[jb747]

Roster for start of July would come out in May?
I'm looking at an LAX trip for early July. Plotting which connection to make (for this trip last year, I took 15 out and 12 back)

About the 19th of May. We've had a bit of feedback to the effect that there might be some London, and less of the Singapore returns.

 

[lastrow]

My list of diversions over 33 years is pretty short.

Narita - Brisbane (747-200) diverted to Townsville due weather. Unforecast thunderstorms.

Singapore - Brisbane (767) diverted to Townsville due weather. Unforecast thunderstorms.

Perth - Singapore (767) returned to Perth, engine shutdown.

Singapore - Sydney (767) diverted to Melbourne due weather. Fog.

Brisbane - Hong Kong (767) medical. Weather stopped us diverting to Manila.

Hong Kong - Melbourne (747-400) diverted to Manila, aircraft problems.

Singapore - London (747-400) diverted to Amsterdam, due London weather. Crosswind outside limits.

London - Singapore (A380), initiated the diversion to Bangkok, medical. Ultimately diverted again, back to Singapore.

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.

The company puts out a list (and map) of places that we can use for diversions. They are graded by suitability. Some will be suitable as normal destinations, and will have full services, and contract will be in place for anything needed. Others might not be quite as good, but still have contracts in place. The third level are suitable for use in an emergency only. Service contracts aren't a concern. Sitting below that, of course, is the knowledge that if worse comes to worse, any bit of bitumen of about 7,000' will do, and the subsequent condition of the aircraft may not enter the equation.

In most cases, you have at least some time to preplan your diversion. If the weather is deteriorating, you should see that happening as the reports change, and have a loose plan of attack at the very least. Sometimes changes will happen suddenly, for instance on the day we diverted from London to Amsterdam, we'd been looking at Amsterdam earlier, but the plan was to go to Stansted or Birmingham. The change happened in the go around, when the weather at the alternatives went below what we could use. Following an aircraft problem, there will be no time to plan, so it's just common sense to keep track of the options as a flight progresses.

On a flight from Melbourne to LA, we'll keep updating the FMC fix pages, and weather for the possible alternates. So, Sydney, Brisbane, Noumea, Auckland, Nadi, Pago, Kona, Honolulu, Hilo, San Franciso, Ontario, Phoenix.

Making the diversion happen, is really just a case of picking a route we want to use, and then having a chat to ATC (either via radio or data link). At some point in there we'll try to send the company a data link message.

many thanks jb. Your reply is very comprehensive. I guess in the case of a diversion due to weather you would just sit tight until you got an all clear from you destination. However in the case of a technical problem would you wait for a suitably qualified engineer (either local or flown in) or would the company send another aircraft . An interesting point you raised where a diversion was required crew hours could be exceeded in the process of continuing your flight when conditions permitted. What happens here?

 

[jb747]

I guess in the case of a diversion due to weather you would just sit tight until you got an all clear from your destination.

Once you make the decision to divert, there isn't much hanging around waiting for anything. Waiting costs fuel, and I may not be all that flush with it in the first place. In a radar environment, ATC will get you headed in the right direction straight away.

However in the case of a technical problem would you wait for a suitably qualified engineer (either local or flown in) or would the company send another aircraft.

In a slow time diversion, where I can't go to the destination, but there's no urgency, the company may have different options depending upon whether we want to do a splash and dash, or need the aircraft repaired. An airport that is suitable for a quick fuel stop, might not be as good a choice if you're going to need a couple of hundred hotel rooms. In that case we'll have plenty of opportunity to talk to ops control, though whether we do what they want is still up to us alone. They present options, never decisions.

An interesting point you raised where a diversion was required crew hours could be exceeded in the process of continuing your flight when conditions permitted. What happens here?

You cannot start a flight if there is no way of completing it within the CASA limits. But, you might be able to go faster. Go to another airport within the limits. Whatever lateral ideas you can come up with.

 

[flyer89]

Keeping on diversions for a second JB on a route like SYD-JNB if a problem were to occur at the lowest part of the curve, say for example a DP where an immediate descent is necessary what options are up your sleeve? The only field I’m aware of in cooee if it happens at exactly the wrong time is Wilkins Airstrip at Casey ice station.

 

[jb747]

Keeping on diversions for a second JB on a route like SYD-JNB if a problem were to occur at the lowest part of the curve, say for example a DP where an immediate descent is necessary what options are up your sleeve? The only field I’m aware of in cooee if it happens at exactly the wrong time is Wilkins Airstrip at Casey ice station.

The field chosen for engine out and depressurisation events, doesn't have to be within cooee. It only has to be within the fuel you will have available. So, in that depressurisation case, at the worst possible point, you'll need fuel to descent to 14,000' until the oxygen system runs out, and then 10,000', to arrive with fuel above mandatory fixed reserve. The airport simply needs to be above the minima.

I don't know which runway they use, but it won't be Casey. I'll ask and find out.

This sort of calculation is carried out for each scenario, and fuel is added as required. It's often added on the 380 flights to LA, to cover the depressurisation case between HNL and SFO/LAX.

And yes, if you add multiple scenarios together, it won't look pretty.

 

[harvyk]

04/5 QF35 Mel-Sin
05/5QF36 Sin-Mel

For a second I thought you where operating my flights, unfortunately I'm on 05/5 QF35 and 06/5 QF36. So missed you by a day.

Also what is the odds of the exact same crew operating both the flights I posted above? (I'm expecting pretty high which might make for an interesting welcome on board)

 

[jb747]

Also what is the odds of the exact same crew operating both the flights I posted above? (I'm expecting pretty high which might make for an interesting welcome on board)

Close to 100%. The SO will be going to London, but for the rest it will be a quick trip to Singapore.

 

[JohnM]

Keeping on diversions for a second JB on a route like SYD-JNB if a problem were to occur at the lowest part of the curve, say for example a DP where an immediate descent is necessary what options are up your sleeve? The only field I’m aware of in cooee if it happens at exactly the wrong time is Wilkins Airstrip at Casey ice station.

Along the same lines: I did a PER-Antarctica charter flyover flight in a QF744 last year. We circled Casey Station and then headed W along the coast to Mirny Station before heading back to Casey before turning N and home to PER. What would have been our options in the event of your very understated diversion to MNL because of the same type of 'aircraft problems' - ie. DP?

Or doesn't it bear thinking about...?

 

[Quickstatus]

....I don't know which runway they use, but it won't be Casey. I'll ask and find out....

If I may speculate...
PER if before point of no return?
RUN if after point of no return?
But point of no return is further west along the southern ocean due to prevailing winds?