Ask The Pilot

[jb747]

That sure sounds unpleasant. I assume this didn’t last very long? I recall being told by someone who was an SO on the 744 at the time (circa 2002?) that the QF10 would do SIN-MEL-SYD with the same crew. They had SO’s at least.

It wasn’t very smart planning, even though it was legal.

There was an SO, but because it was 3 sectors, and the 767 crew rest was notoriously bad, nobody ever got any worthwhile rest. The pattern ran for a few weeks, until someone simply said they were too tired...and left them with no Captain for the 0600 flight. The 747 Singapore-Melbourne-Sydney sector wasn’t nearly as bad.

 

[jb747]

Is there always at least 1 person with their harness on while airborne? From the point of view of turbulence.

The full harness (5 points) has to be worn during take off, landing, instrument approach, and any time the seat belt sign is on. The rest of the time only the lower harness is required. Personally, I never undid the 5 points, unless I was getting out of the seat.

 

[jb747]

When a depressurisation occurs, what is the procedure for pilots (and crew) to don their oxygen masks? There would obviously be a lot going on at that instant.

Is mask-fitting quick and do you need to pre-adjust the mask for fit before flight? Are there issues if you wear spectacles?

The mask and googles come as one piece, and are stowed right next to the seats. They are hidden below the oxygen control panel, with two tabs protruding. You squeeze the tabs and pull, and the mask lifts out of the container. The straps use the oxygen/air mix to tighten, and they remain flaccid until you release the tabs, at which point it behaves like a ‘face hugger’ from the movie Alien. Your glasses stay on, and with a little care, the mask/goggles fit over them. Fitting is extremely quick....a couple of seconds. No adjustment is required at any point.

This is the system QF use in all of their aircraft. Oxygen Systems

Procedurally, the depressurisation checklist will have you don the mask, ensure you have comms, and then initiate a descent. Once you start that procedure, it contains no fault finding, or attempts to correct the issue. You can do that either established in the descent, or preferably, when level.

The sim exercises for these morphed over the years. From about 1990 they were always flown with the autopilot engaged, and no consideration was given to dropping the landing gear. Dropping the gear did not help at high levels, which is why it was omitted. Most of the exercises involved some sort of failure of the pressurisation system, so the rate of climb wasn’t necessarily all that fast. That sometimes gave a few seconds to try to control it before jumping to the checklist, or alternatively, it might let you get below 14,000’ before the cabin masks would trip. QF30, was, of course, different. The autopilot failed immediately, and the cabin rate of climb was huge (about 25,000 in 13 or so seconds). Not only were there lots of seemingly random failures, but the #3 engine was in very close proximity to the event, and did get some minor FOD. So, sim exercises then started randomly taking the autopilot away, and sliding in either an engine failure or fire into the mix.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Is there always at least 1 person with their harness on while airborne? From the point of view of turbulence.

Both of us will always wear our seatbelt as we instruct passengers to do whilst seated, and the requirement for the 5 point is as JB stated, although in the cruise, I’ll have the 3 point on at all times while seated. I use the full 5 point as a reminder that the seatbelt sign is on.

It’s rare to fly with someone who flies with the full 5 point on for the entire flight.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Much difference in handling etc in the near 20 year old 737 NGs vs the newer NG’s? I assume one is a bit more rusty to fly than the new Mercedes?

Yes for sure. The newer ones are ‘tighter’. Everything just flies and works beautifully. The older ones require more rudder trim to keep the control wheel neutral. I find that the NG flies the best when it’s at MTOW. It’s just so stable.

 

[smeacs]

These 3 aircraft have come in from Singapore and Hawaii, how come the flight path doesn’t direct them along something similar to the red lines ?

There are other aircraft coming in from Queensland locations following a very logical path and landing on the eastern runway. And everyone is landing from the northern end.

My guess is that they are all larger and want to land on the longer western runway however it seems dumb to have so much of the final flight path be relatively low over the city when aircraft noise is such a big issue in Sydney. And wouldn’t it be a much simpler decent to fly with less turns late in the piece?

 

[jb747]

These 3 aircraft have come in from Singapore and Hawaii, how come the flight path doesn’t direct them along something similar to the red lines ?

There are other aircraft coming in from Queensland locations following a very logical path and landing on the eastern runway. And everyone is landing from the northern end.

My guess is that they are all larger and want to land on the longer western runway however it seems dumb to have so much of the final flight path be relatively low over the city when aircraft noise is such a big issue in Sydney. And wouldn’t it be a much simpler decent to fly with less turns late in the piece?

View attachment 174587

Sydney's arrivals are constrained by many factors. Politics is one...no matter what changes you make, you'll end up with complaints from someone.

Bringing aircraft that are landing on 16R, on to a common downwind leg allows for their spacing to be controlled by the turn points. I suspect that most of the aircraft are actually coming from Melbourne, so SQ, UPS, etc, are being fitted in with them, not the other way around. They aren't all that low. The downwind leg normally starts at about 6,000', drifting down to 4,000. Power wouldn't be much above idle for most of that leg.

RAAF Richmond owns some of the airspace to the west, and most of the airspace around Newcastle, and well out to sea, belongs to RAAF Williamtown. That airspace may well be full of aircraft, operating at random heights and high speeds, without ADSB, so FR24 can't see them. A clearance through will be offered if it is available.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Brisbane’s parallel runway coming along nicely. Nice to see lots of rapid taxiways.

 

[jb747]

If they build a new international terminal in the gap between the domestic and the new runway, you'll actually end up with a decent layout.

 

[serfty]

Brisbane’s parallel runway coming along nicely. Nice to see lots of rapid taxiways.

I've had a few rounds at the Nudgee Golf Course in the foreground ...

 

[ChrisGibbs]

The mask and googles come as one piece, and are stowed right next to the seats. They are hidden below the oxygen control panel, with two tabs protruding. You squeeze the tabs and pull, and the mask lifts out of the container. The straps use the oxygen/air mix to tighten, and they remain flaccid until you release the tabs, at which point it behaves like a ‘face hugger’ from the movie Alien. Your glasses stay on, and with a little care, the mask/goggles fit over them. Fitting is extremely quick....a couple of seconds. No adjustment is required at any point.

Pre 9/11 I got the jump seat on an AN A320 MEL-SYD service. At the top of climb the FO left the coughpit to go to the loo and the Captain put on his oxygen mask. Is it still SOP with a 2 pilot crew where one leaves the coughpit the remaining pilot puts on his/her oxygen mask?

 

[jb747]

Pre 9/11 I got the jump seat on an AN A320 MEL-SYD service. At the top of climb the FO left the coughpit to go to the loo and the Captain put on his oxygen mask. Is it still SOP with a 2 pilot crew where one leaves the coughpit the remaining pilot puts on his/her oxygen mask?

There have been a number of rules for this over the years. Around the time you're talking about, it was single pilot above FL250. Later it was raised, sufficiently high that it was out of the range of most airliners. The later masks are much easier and quicker to fit than earlier incarnations. Additionally, they are eventually harmed by continually pulling them out of the stowage, so I expect that was one driver behind raising the requirement.

 

[eric2011]

If they build a new international terminal in the gap between the domestic and the new runway, you'll actually end up with a decent layout.

and back on planet earth...pigs will fly

 

[Saab34]

How long are your max duties? Air Canada has diverted a few times this week on what is already sone of the worlds longest flights.

YVR-SYD has been to both Brisbane and Melbourne this week. Assuming they sign off 30 mins after landing in Sydney it’s not far off a 24hr shift.

Last approach into Sydney might be a touch rusty!

 

[jb747]

How long are your max duties? Air Canada has diverted a few times this week on what is already sone of the worlds longest flights.

YVR-SYD has been to both Brisbane and Melbourne this week. Assuming they sign off 30 mins after landing in Sydney it’s not far off a 24hr shift.

Last approach into Sydney might be a touch rusty!

The maximum flight time limits vary around the world. Consider it to be about 20 hours, inclusive of all ground duty. Generally, the maximum planned time is an hour or two less than the maximum time. A crew can choose to extend to the max time, but a company may not plan it. Of course, companies will have their own interpretation of this, and it depends upon the strength of the regulator as to just how this is handled.

YVR-SYD is shorter than LAX-MEL. The planned time is likely in the order of 16 hours, so with duty before and after the flight, there would be an hour or two that might be available for a flight time extension.

And yes, that last sector after a diversion is horrible. It's a wonder that it hasn't appeared as a feature in more accidents around the world.

 

[Saab34]

The maximum flight time limits vary around the world. Consider it to be about 20 hours, inclusive of all ground duty. Generally, the maximum planned time is an hour or two less than the maximum time. A crew can choose to extend to the max time, but a company may not plan it. Of course, companies will have their own interpretation of this, and it depends upon the strength of the regulator as to just how this is handled.

YVR-SYD is shorter than LAX-MEL. The planned time is likely in the order of 16 hours, so with duty before and after the flight, there would be an hour or two that might be available for a flight time extension.

And yes, that last sector after a diversion is horrible. It's a wonder that it hasn't appeared as a feature in more accidents around the world.

I guess the mindset of push on is more convenient for foreign carriers and pilots than call it a day at the diverted port. The process of getting pax and crew back to where they are meant to go usually creates chaos. QF and VA can obviously push people around the domestic network fairly quickly, United or Delta say diverting to Melbourne can’t without a lot of waiting around for it be organised.

But is probably the safer option than trying to navigate 34L in low vis operations at the 21hr mark. Pilot might not have slept for 30hrs either.

Has QF diverted a A380 inbound in LA before? I’ve seen Virgin diverted to Ontario once and didn’t get to LA until lunchtime.

 

[jb747]

But is probably the safer option than trying to navigate 34L in low vis operations at the 21hr mark. Pilot might not have slept for 30hrs either.

At the 21 hour mark, not only are you illegal, but stupid. You are expected to get it on the ground before 20 hours. Even then your comment about sleep is valid.

Has QF diverted a A380 inbound in LA before? I’ve seen Virgin diverted to Ontario once and didn’t get to LA until lunchtime.

The 380 has been too Ontario and I think also to Phoenix. 747 has been to Vegas. I recall feeling quite smug there one morning, when all of the other aircraft diverted, and we had LAX almost to ourselves.

 

[RSD]

The original Melways plans were quite good. What a pity that the airport isn’t actually for air traffic any more.

There does seem to be this problem where we have expanding populations but shrinking airports - Moorabbin is a good example.

 

[AviatorInsight]

While this is fresh in my head....

Two days of sim as part of my routine cyclic check.
Day 1. Check day.
This was relatively straight forward. We’ve now gone to a first look approach to sim checking where it gives the airline a good snapshot of where the crew lie in terms of performance and management. The Capt got off easy on this one. Depart SYD for MEL, above transition there was a master caution where an entry door was deemed to be unsafe. We conducted the checklist and made an immediate return to SYD. The weather condition got worse and worse as we approached so we set up for an auto land. No dramas, that’s the Captain’s part done.

Next was mine. Departure from runway 35 at CBR. At V1 I got an engine failure with severe damage. Flew the engine out procedure and returned to land via the ILS runway 35 once all checklists were complete. This was left for me to manage and coordinate as part of my command assessment for the future. Fairly straight forward.

Once on the ground was a reposition for a one engine inop missed approach to clean up. Finally a ground proximity into terrain with the escape manoeuvre was done. One each. End.

Day 2. Training.
Ok so there was A LOT in this one compared to yesterday. First up flight was from MEL-CHC set up as EDTO (the new ETOPS ;-)). Was also 1°c outside so lots of procedures for cold weather operations done (de-ice). On the push back we got the first engine started but the second engine failed to start up. On checking the circuit breakers I found one that was popped just behind the captain’s shoulder. Got approval to reset it and then was a good start. All ops normal until about FL180 when a weather warning from ATC saying that volcanic ash had been reported by previous aircraft. As soon as we noticed the engines started playing up, the captain initiated a descending 180° turn to exit. The engines flamed out and I was running the loss of thrust on both engines memory items. We managed to get both of them back at about FL120. We returned to MEL, conducted an ILS and on short final got a single engine failure. Touched down. Exercise over.

Next, I had to fly an approach to the circuit break off and circle to land on an adjacent runway.

Finally, and I’m sure this is what everyone has been waiting for, the runaway stabiliser. So being a hot topic at the moment, we spent a bit of time on it. Firstly, the check captain just told us to depart. At about 500ft the trim started running away from me and it wasn’t commanded. We recognised it and I just adopted the airspeed unreliable power settings to try and bring the nose down (I had uncommanded nose up trim). Luckily on the NG, I held the electric trim in the opposite direction to stop the runaway until we cut out the switches. So far so good.

Next departure the checkie told us to depart and we noticed the aircraft rotating early. We got airborne got the gear up and about 1000’ the trim immediately went to 0. Well that was intense. Full back stick was required by the captain. His feet were up on the foot rests to help him hold it, so I got to the memory items fairly quick and cut out the switches. Now the fun part. I tried trimming the aircraft nose up with manual trim but it was extremely difficult. We were on climb and only doing about 200kts. So we coordinated between us for the captain to let go of the control column and I would then frantically trim back as fast as I could before he had to take control back. We oscillated like this for a good 5 mins. A lot of trim wheel turns were required to get it back to the normal range. We managed to get it to about 3000ft by this stage. Needless to say, I was exhausted and out of breath but kept turning as if my life depended on it. I couldn’t imagine what it would have been like for the crew on the ill fated flights. Once we had it under control the checkie rolled the trim in again and asked to use gear and flap to help with the pitching on the nose up/down. It definitely did make a difference and something I’ll be taking away from it. I learnt a lot from this exercise and will be interesting to read the final reports.

 

[Quickstatus]

Memory items: what do you do to memorise the memory items? Any memorable mnemonics?

In medical world We have “DRABC”
Causes of Acute Pancreatitis: “I GET SMASHED”


Gear and flap to assist with pitch control. Sorry I don’t understand the aerodynamic relationship here. Can you please elaborate