Ask The Pilot

[mjt57]

The author has no idea where AVV AP is located.

What is AVV AP?

 

[Hvr]

What is AVV AP?

Avalon Airport

 

[AviatorInsight]

What is the difference between a ETDO and non ETDO flight for say a BNE-CHC flight?

What extra things need to happen for a flight to be considered ETDO?

As far as the actual conduct of the flight? There is no difference.

EDTO is merely a planning exercise. There are certain standards that must be adhered to. Both CASA requirements and any additional requirements set out by the airline or operator themselves. Things like minimum rescue and fire fighting services, aerodrome lighting, instrument approach procedure etc.

Whilst during EDTO it is also up to the pilot in command to determine which available aerodrome is the most appropriate for a diversion. It doesn't necessarily have to be the closest. Some EDTO flights have diverted because all of the toilets became unserviceable.

Pre dispatch is where the magic happens to make it an EDTO flight. There's a maintenance procedure that needs to be done prior to the flight and noted in the aircraft tech log.

There's also a list noted on the flight plan of the EDTO alternate aerodromes nominated by the company. The weather all needs to be suitable for the period you require it to be. That's pretty much it.

If an EDTO flight cannot be conducted for whatever reason then the 60 minute rule applies.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Saw this image -

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/qf14-coughpit-view.jpg

Really beautiful photo but I wanted to know where the iPad charger was plugged into the coughpit? Do you have USB ports?

I can't imagine that you have a cigarette lighter up there

No cigarette lighter but there's still an ash tray.

There's only a handful of new aircraft running around with proper USB ports fitted on each side. In every other 737 there's a US style powerpoint above the FO's head on the circuit breaker panel. So Virgin have put a USB adapter that fits the socket. Similar to what you have when travelling (or when you used to travel).

It's fine for the FO, but the Captain needs about a 2m chord to make it all the way to his side. Most guys just get the FO to charge their iPad in the cruise and then hand it back for the descent.

 

[747sp]

With the discussion about QF 1 in Bangkok and QF 15 going around just before the incident. If the crew of QF1 had known about the go around would that have had any influence on the decisions the pilots made and does it make any difference that it was a Qantas plane?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Thanks for our pilots and their regular and very enlightening input over a long time now.

With the recent QF14 flight SCL-DRW, what provisions are made with regard ETOPS (or equivalent) zones / requirements, or diversion points (if over antarctica), and could you talk us through the planning / en-route replanning and the processes behind that? They appeared to end up a fair way south (over Antarctica) and then west (passing over ADL rather than MEL) of the GC route, which i assume is wind related +/- diversion point related although hard to know how much was pre-planned at departure vs en-route i suppose.

Thanks in advance.

So digging into this a little bit more, EDTO applies to both charter and RPT flights. So in this case they would had to have flown the flight as an EDTO sector.

I thought the 787 was rated for around 240mins (in which case it couldn't have made EDTO) but I was wrong. It is actually 330minutes! I remember Air NZ getting 330mins approved for their 777s. Now that's a long way!

 

[Captain Halliday]

Why is EDTO measured in time rather than distance?

Is the time calculated based of degraded performance? If so, by how much?

I reckon that 330 mins would feel like much more than five-and-a-half hours with only one on ‘em turning!

 

[AviatorInsight]

Why is EDTO measured in time rather than distance?

Is the time calculated based of degraded performance? If so, by how much?

I reckon that 330 mins would feel like much more than five-and-a-half hours with only one on ‘em turning!

It is actually measured in both distance and time. The distance is calculated by considering the maximum time allowed by CASA and the approved one engine inoperative cruise speed.

The time is regulated approved (which is why the VA 777 never got past 180mins even though Air NZ 777s were approved up to 330) and is based on the operational experience of the operator and the aircraft itself.

The one engine inoperative cruise speed is calculated from a reference EDTO weight and published in knots (again approved by CASA). From there that speed is then taken to determine the critical fuel scenarios.

Typically all calculations to determine the area of operations are based on ISA conditions in nil wind. So to put it all together, the speed schedule combined with the threshold time results in a fixed distance. In flight all reference to an alternate aerodrome is based off this maximum fixed distance (independent of the atmospheric conditions at the time).

 

[jb747]

So digging into this a little bit more, EDTO applies to both charter and RPT flights. So in this case they would had to have flown the flight as an EDTO sector.

Shows how long it is since I considered any of this. Last flight in the 767 was 17 years ago, and lots of the rules have changed since then.

I thought the 787 was rated for around 240mins (in which case it couldn't have made EDTO) but I was wrong. It is actually 330minutes! I remember Air NZ getting 330mins approved for their 777s. Now that's a long way!

I had a look at the flight plan for the flight, and the limitation is cargo fire suppression. Apparently that constrains it to 285 minutes. The flight was planned to 281 minutes. Of course, how anybody knows the suppression would hold for that long, or even a fraction of it, is an unanswerable.

Why is EDTO measured in time rather than distance?

Is the time calculated based of degraded performance? If so, by how much?

When you think about it, time is a much more rational limitation than distance. It doesn't change with the conditions. Distance is simply easier to use, but given the computer power of the flight planning departments, it really shouldn't be the criteria.

I reckon that 330 mins would feel like much more than five-and-a-half hours with only one on ‘em turning!

Whilst all of this started with the advent of the big twins flying across the Atlantic, nowadays it isn't limited to considerations of engine failure. Loss of hydraulics, or electrical systems, just for starters, could leave you in a very uncomfortable situation once you end up with one system left, and no backup. And if you want to feel really uncomfortable, be aware that none of this considers multiple failures, and yet we've seen many of them over the years. For instance, the engine failure that gives you a depressurisation (or vice versa).

 

[harvyk]

How do flight levels work over long oceanic routes?

Obviously when flying over a country, the country gets to decide what flight levels are what, but in international airspace, how are flight levels determined, and is there any other tricks to avoid having planes run into each other (eg track directions)

 

[jb747]

How do flight levels work over long oceanic routes?

Obviously when flying over a country, the country gets to decide what flight levels are what, but in international airspace, how are flight levels determined, and is there any other tricks to avoid having planes run into each other (eg track directions).

Probably easier if you read this: Flight level - Wikipedia

In general, they are standardised, so not too many countries go off on a tangent. The metric flight levels are a bit of a pain, but the aircraft will display metric with the flick of a switch.

 

[harvyk]

For medium to long haul flights, how far out do you start considering the landing (eg selecting the runways, working out the approach, getting weather reports knowing that's what your likely to be dealing with etc)?

 

[jb747]

For medium to long haul flights, how far out do you start considering the landing (eg selecting the runways, working out the approach, getting weather reports knowing that's what your likely to be dealing with etc)?

That's a little like the length of a piece of string. You're actually looking at it, in a low key way, for much of the flight. Especially with ACARs, it's simple to pick up the forecast and actual weather for your destination, every couple of hours. Keeping an eye on it, even if technically not needed, avoids surprises.

For much of my glass jet flying, I used to load the expected STAR and runway into the FMC within the first couple of hours of the flight. The reason I did so, was that there were a couple failure modes within the system which could make it hard/impossible to load something, but which wouldn't take away anything already loaded. You'd keep an unmodded version in the alternate route.

Long haul flying has people coming and going to the bunk, so it was generally all on about 30 minutes before top of descent.

 

[Saab34]

Gents
Which pilot base location is the most sought after, and which is the least?

Due to housing prices do people avoid Sydney?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Long haul flying has people coming and going to the bunk, so it was generally all on about 30 minutes before top of descent.

I would have loved an extra couple of minutes in the bunk. VA Capts for some reason felt the need to talk the aircraft onto the ground so we were back on deck 1hr prior to top.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Gents
Which pilot base location is the most sought after, and which is the least?

Due to housing prices do people avoid Sydney?

Any other based is preferred with BNE the hardest to get. Especially for Captains.

People avoid sydney for more than just housing. But thinking long term it’s going to be the most junior base because no one wants it. Majority of people commute.

So because I’m set up in Sydney already when (if) a command comes up I won’t need to commute and I’ll be good to go (it’s a pain to try and do it domestically).

 

[jb747]

I would have loved an extra couple of minutes in the bunk. VA Capts for some reason felt the need to talk the aircraft onto the ground so we were back on deck 1hr prior to top.

For an arrival in nominal conditions, how much was there to say? We'd all been there before. I worked on the theory that any brief that took longer than a couple of minutes, was beyond my attention span, so why expect others to want to hear someone droning on.

 

[AviatorInsight]

For an arrival in nominal conditions, how much was there to say? We'd all been there before. I worked on the theory that any brief that took longer than a couple of minutes, was beyond my attention span, so why expect others to want to hear someone droning on.

This was the reaction from a lot of the other crew. I never used to listen to the “expected” taxi route. It changed 99% of the time anyway.

Thankfully domestic is a lot better but you occasionally get the standard waffle that starts 100nm prior to top in CAVOK conditions.

 

[harvyk]

This was the reaction from a lot of the other crew. I never used to listen to the “expected” taxi route. It changed 99% of the time anyway.

Thankfully domestic is a lot better but you occasionally get the standard waffle that starts 100nm prior to top in CAVOK conditions.

So what would be the waffle vs the need to know in CAVOK conditions?

 

[AviatorInsight]

So what would be the waffle vs the need to know in CAVOK conditions?

That would be a long post!

Need to know would be a legs check in the FMC vs the chart, a stopping solution (flap and auto brake setting), and navigation instruments are set.

To start briefing a full ILS approach with lost communications when we’ve already done it twice that day and I can see the airport from 100nm out is superfluous in my opinion.

Some airlines have what’s known as a ”home base” briefing. Where if both pilots are from the same base, then the briefing is extremely short unless circumstances warranted it of course. But these are native to European airlines.

For example if this was to be used for Sydney, there would be no need to brief the standard taxi routes.

I’m not saying communication isn’t important but if no one is listening anyway because their attention span is now lost then was it really worth it? When the situation warrants it by all means brief it. Especially if it’s a place you haven’t been to in a while and/or a relevant NOTAM exists at that airport.