Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

I saw a picture today, from one of my friends who was back in the 380 sim after almost 2 years. It’s been relocated to Melbourne. Some sort of shared facility…some of the sims have Ansett markings.

I thought that didn’t look right a few weeks ago. That thing was going non stop for 2 days.

 

[jb747]

JB, how easily can something like this happen? Can it get away quickly from you and before you know it your taking out edge lights?

People who don’t fly, underestimate the degree of difficulty that exists in handling some of the nastier conditions. An aircraft will be away from you in a second if it gets the chance. They can be really good aircraft, but they are all really bad cars.

 

[jb747]

I thought that didn’t look right a few weeks ago. That thing was going non stop for 2 days.

And they didn’t give you a go. Mention my name next time.

And they’ll say ”who’s he?“

 

[Saab34]

AV as below, applying reverse thrust before the gear hits the deck, would you get in trouble for doing this by the Training Department? I assume it’s not in the Boeing book. Or is this a manoeuvre that is instructed ? I would have thought doing that would greatly reduce the chance of conducting a problem free missed approach if needed to soon after.

 

[jb747]

AV as below, applying reverse thrust before the gear hits the deck, would you get in trouble for doing this by the Training Department? I assume it’s not in the Boeing book. Or is this a manoeuvre that is instructed ? I would have thought doing that would greatly reduce the chance of conducting a problem free missed approach if needed to soon after.

He shouldn’t even have his hands on the reverse levers before touchdown. Go arounds are banned after reverse is selected.

But, it also should not have been able to happen. There are a number of items that have to be ticked before reverse will engage. One of them is weight on the wheels. I’d presume that the levers were locked at the interlock (which lets the cowls translate to reverse, but limits the power to idle) until touchdown, but even so, I'm surprised that the cowl moved before weight on the wheels.

 

[AviatorInsight]

AV as below, applying reverse thrust before the gear hits the deck, would you get in trouble for doing this by the Training Department? I assume it’s not in the Boeing book. Or is this a manoeuvre that is instructed ? I would have thought doing that would greatly reduce the chance of conducting a problem free missed approach if needed to soon after.

No you wouldn't get in trouble. This is a 737ism and is definitely in the Boeing book but of course practically, is it ideal? No.

You are correct that it does create a problem if you want to do a missed approach in that once you select reverse it's game over.

The thrust reverser mechanism works on the air to ground sensor off the right main landing gear. You would think that this would mean weight on wheels ONLY but this is where the 737 is in a league of its own.

So yes it will work with weight on wheels BUT the locks will also release if the Captain's or FO's radio altimeter is less than 10 feet and allow you to open the sleeves.

 

[jb747]

The thrust reverser mechanism works on the air to ground sensor off the right main landing gear. You would think that this would mean weight on wheels ONLY but this is where the 737 is in a league of its own.

So yes it will work with weight on wheels BUT the locks will also release if the Captain's or FO's radio altimeter is less than 10 feet and allow you to open the sleeves.

You keep giving me reasons not to like the 737.

 

[JohnM]

You keep giving me reasons not to like the 737.

And QF today has concurred with you.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Arrived into YSSY this morning on QF422 the 08:30am scheduled MEL/SYD 738 service. Pulled into Gate 6. Both the front and rear doors were opened for passengers to disembark. The CSM made an announcement that a new procedure has been put in place and "due to the configuration of the aircraft the process now is for passengers to disembark from the rear stairs [for about 30 seconds] prior to passengers being allowed to disembark via the aerobridge at the front of the plane. This is to ensure weight is kept on the nose wheel".

Not saying the CSM was making this up but in all the years of flying on QF's 738's I hadn't heard this one before.... I can imagine that freight / cargo aircraft would have to consider weight / balance on the ground and maybe some of the smaller commuter type aircraft (eg. ATR-72's) which embark / disembark via the rear stairs. Is weight and balance on the ground a big issue on the 738's? The obvious question would be what if they couldn't get passengers to disembark via the rear stairs?

Further to @ChrisGibbs question:

@AviatorInsight does VA use tailstands?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Further to @ChrisGibbs question:

@AviatorInsight does VA use tailstands?

Not that I’m aware of. During normal Ops teetering isn’t so much of a problem. It has really only been noticed by crew during the light loads and freight of recent months.

The Saab however does have a “pogo stick” to stop it from tipping backwards. You could tell sometimes that it was necessary because the back would be so heavy with bags, the stick would get wedged into the ground.

 

[AviatorInsight]

You keep giving me reasons not to like the 737.

But but but...we can do GLS and RNP(AR) approaches...that's still cool isn't it?

 

[jb747]

But but but...we can do GLS and RNP(AR) approaches...that's still cool isn't it?

Can you do a GLS autoland?

 

[JohnM]

But but but...we can do GLS and RNP(AR) approaches...that's still cool isn't it?

Translation please, gents!

 

[mjt57]

Translation please, gents!

AV is saying, "my hovercraft is full of eels", to which JB responded "er, about a quarter to three, suh!".

(apologies to Monty Python fans...)

 

[Captain Halliday]

Translation please, gents!

It’s a pilot you-know-what contest.

My plane is bigger/better than your plane kinda-thing.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Can you do a GLS autoland?

To CAT I conditions or better yes.

Translation please, gents!

GLS = GBAS Landing System. A new navigation aid based off of GPS and works exactly like an ILS...only better.

RNP(AR) = Required Navigation Performance (Authorisation Required). Another GPS style approach that allows for curved approaches rather than a traditional straight in.

It’s a pilot you-know-what contest.

My plane is bigger/better than your plane kinda-thing.

Same same but different. In this case, I'm just trying to restore any kind of faith in the trusty 737. She might be old and perhaps time for a retirement but she's still built like a truck. Maybe my views might change once I get a proper feel for the "new" girl when she arrives.

Time will tell.

 

[Quickstatus]

one of the zero extra fuel men arrived, and he couldn't cover the holding and had to immediately divert.

Could you please regale us with some more details of the story

 

[jb747]

The particular beauty of GLS is that it doesn't require ILS installations at the airport. A GPS transponder has to be installed in the area, but with it in place, any airport within about 25 miles can potentially gain GLS to all of its runways. Melbourne 34 is perhaps a classic example, because, until the advent of GLS, it had no precision approach at all. Fairly surprising for a heavily used runway in large city.

 

[jb747]

Could you please regale us with some more details of the story

To be honest, a proper treatise on fuel planning and management would be even more confusing than the GLS/RNP discussion.

The upshot though, is that there is a difference between a legal amount of fuel, and a sensible one. Arriving at place like Dubai, with divert fuel to an airport 25 miles away may well fulfill all legal requirements. But, common (?) sense says that there's likely to be extensive holding there even in good weather, so even though additional holding might not be legally required, it's very likely to be needed. So, arriving with divert fuel and being unable to hold will simply result in you having to divert immediately. Legal. Safe. Dumb.

 

[Quickstatus]

divert fuel and being unable to hold

How much fuel uplifted to carry the holding fuel + holding fuel?
Haver you ever converted payload to holding fuel?. That would double whammy the bean counters.....

one of the zero extra fuel men

Interested in the personality traits that would make someone a zero extra fuel man.