Ask The Pilot

[RooFlyer]

The regulations allow the pilot in command to direct a person to leave the aircraft before the flight begins. End of story.

"Look, the Feds have got 40 calibres!"

"Meh, I've got a 737"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I dunno if this is interesting or not? Tonight’s Batik Air diverted after spending a couple of hours circling waiting to land due to bad weather (by the looks of it). The FR map is here: Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map | Flightradar24

I think i counted 10 or 11 holding circles, one of the thick lines is actually made up of 7 circles. Does it get quite stressful in these circumstances, or is it routine?

 

[jb747]

I think i counted 10 or 11 holding circles, one of the thick lines is actually made up of 7 circles. Does it get quite stressful in these circumstances, or is it routine?

Any stress is inversely proportional to the amount of fuel you have.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

JB, Mr Insight and others: any thoughts on this UA 777 situation out of Hawaii?

 

[AviatorInsight]

JB, Mr Insight and others: any thoughts on this UA 777 situation out of Hawaii?

From what I’ve read it was almost certain due to the weather in the area at the time. A Hawaiian A330 also hit turbulence and a few of their pax sustained injuries.

They were only around 2200ft when the incident occurred. Sounds to me that it would have been a windshear/microburst event.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

From what I’ve read it was almost certain due to the weather in the area at the time. A Hawaiian A330 also hit turbulence and a few of their pax sustained injuries.

They were only around 2200ft when the incident occurred. Sounds to me that it would have been a windshear/microburst event.

Interesting. So possible a quite different scenario to the Qatar Dreamliner of a couple of weeks back?

Amazing the passengers didn't' realise how close it was to disaster and have a flood of social media etc at the time.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Interesting. So possible a quite different scenario to the Qatar Dreamliner of a couple of weeks back?

Amazing the passengers didn't' realise how close it was to disaster and have a flood of social media etc at the time.

Yes, very different. In this case (if it turns out to be true), microbursts are incredibly powerful and have been known to bring down jetliners before.

The QR pilot should have chosen a better time to practice his skills, IMO. I like having a hand fly and will do so up into the high teens. But I choose the captains I do it with, the time of day, the weather conditions, the complexity of the departure, etc. I don’t want to load them up unnecessarily.

As for the passengers, if it was night time, they would have just felt a really rough ride. It seemed to be over very quickly looking at the data. They definitely would have felt the pressure from the 2.7g (again unverified) the pilots pulled, though.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

Yes, very different. In this case (if it turns out to be true), microbursts are incredibly powerful and have been known to bring down jetliners before.

The QR pilot should have chosen a better time to practice his skills, IMO. I like having a hand fly and will do so up into the high teens. But I choose the captains I do it with, the time of day, the weather conditions, the complexity of the departure, etc. I don’t want to load them up unnecessarily.

As for the passengers, if it was night time, they would have just felt a really rough ride. It seemed to be over very quickly looking at the data. They definitely would have felt the pressure from the 2.7g (again unverified) the pilots pulled, though.

Isn't it a bit odd that if it was some sort of weather related shock that they didn't report this back to the field/ATC in order to alert later departing aircraft?

 

[jb747]

Amazing the passengers didn't' realise how close it was to disaster and have a flood of social media etc at the time.

Which really fits in with my comment about the last event. The passengers are unlikely to have the slightest idea at the time, though the proximity of the media tends to bring all sorts of imagination to the fore.

Yes, very different. In this case (if it turns out to be true), microbursts are incredibly powerful and have been known to bring down jetliners before.

It’s difficult to say exactly what happened, as the FR24 data is somewhat selective in what it tells you. Ground speed and vertical speed are really the output in this equation. Wind speed and direction, IAS, and pitch attitude are input, and without them you can reach a conclusion that’s 180º out from what happened.

For instance, a very (VERY) strong tail wind, coming in over a short period of time, could give you the increase in g/s and sink that we see, whilst at the same time the pilots may have had the aircraft pitched up as far as possible, power at full, and IAS decaying. Conversely, letting the nose drop a few degrees whilst at the clean-up stage would give the same readings. One is a great save, the other is not.

The QR pilot should have chosen a better time to practice his skills, IMO. I like having a hand fly and will do so up into the high teens. But I choose the captains I do it with, the time of day, the weather conditions, the complexity of the departure, etc.

One of the indicators of a poor (or perhaps inexperienced) pilot is the inability to pick the right time.

I don’t want to load them up unnecessarily.

This possibly needs some explaining. During many phases of flight, but especially the early part of a departure, there are many things happening, either at the same time, or in quick succession. There’s the obvious, of multiple pitch and speed changes, clean up, probable low altitude restrictions. For the most part, the pilot flying takes care of all of that. The support pilot watches to make sure they all happen, enacts the calls for configuration and power changes, and takes care of ATC. That, in turn can lead to head down moments in the FMC whilst their instructions are converted to something useful. The more ‘other’ stuff that the support pilot has to do, the less time he has to keep an eye on exactly what is going on with the aircraft. The mark of a good/experienced support pilot is not just the ability to this ‘other’ stuff, but keeping the priorities in the correct order. This can mean giving ATC an ‘unable’ response, or perhaps asking/telling the flying pilot for the a/p. Conversely, a pilot who is manually flying, will often engage the a/p if he sees his support becoming overloaded.

You want two pairs of eyes watching the flight path and configuration. As you load up the support pilot with extraneous duties, his eyes disappear for increasing amounts of time. The autopilot is effectively its own pair of eyes, and the PF can keep an eye on it. That releases the support pilot to a less direct monitoring role. This is exactly how most emergency checklist items are carried out. In as much as possible, you don’t want to be manually flying whilst trying to complete a checklist.

As for the passengers, if it was night time, they would have just felt a really rough ride. It seemed to be over very quickly looking at the data. They definitely would have felt the pressure from the 2.7g (again unverified) the pilots pulled, though.

Another reason I’d like to see the IAS trace. If they’d lost a bunch of IAS due to increasing tailwind, you’d wonder how they had enough performance to hit that much g.

 

[jb747]

Isn't it a bit odd that if it was some sort of weather related shock that they didn't report this back to the field/ATC in order to alert later departing aircraft?

Interesting comment. You’re quite correct, but do we have any idea of what was actually said? Reminds me of a very nasty night in HK. We were in a queue of aircraft at the holding point, and the weather was appalling. We had decided that we’d go as far as the runway, as that would let us point the radar into the departure direction for a look, but were already mostly decided on not going. There was a 747 freighter, and a 777, in front of us in the queue. The 747 took off, and shortly thereafter, reappeared on the tower frequency with a comment that was more or less “all aircraft at the holding point, do not take off. Dangerous wind shear.“

The triple was from a mob who had recently lost another aircraft in a weather related take off event. They launched anyway. We went back to the hotel and departed the next day.

 

[straitman]

Recently a few people were asking about coughpit Voice Recorders. This link on page 5 of 19 is from Aviation Week Business and Commercial which is a quite well respected publication.

The other pages have a few articles that I believe will be of interest also.

 

[747sp]

I was wondering for flights to and from America with the recent weather and closure of Auckland would you still consider Christchurch as an alternative or would you go a little further north of new Zealand to avoid the weather and avoid the congestion caused by flights being diverted.

On qf 12 or 94 would you be considering alternatives for most of the flight or would you wait until you were closer to NZ ?

 

[jb747]

I was wondering for flights to and from America with the recent weather and closure of Auckland would you still consider Christchurch as an alternative or would you go a little further north of new Zealand to avoid the weather and avoid the congestion caused by flights being diverted.

On qf 12 or 94 would you be considering alternatives for most of the flight or would you wait until you were closer to NZ ?

Christchurch is a long way south of most of the routes, and I don't recall being used all that often. Auckland sometimes, but mostly it was the islands to the north. Nadi, Samoa are more likely to be in the plans than NZ.

 

[SYD]

Christchurch is a long way south of most of the routes, and I don't recall being used all that often. Auckland sometimes, but mostly it was the islands to the north. Nadi, Samoa are more likely to be in the plans than NZ.

Presumably NOU would be in play also?

 

[justinbrett]

Presumably NOU would be in play also?

If I recall correctly, B744 QF8 used to be quite a frequent visitor to NOU.

Edit - here's a recent (A380 QF8) example

Qantas A380 Makes Noumea Diversion After Bad Weather

simpleflying.com

 

[jb747]

Presumably NOU would be in play also?

Yes, though not a preferred option. Ground handling was a big issue.

If I recall correctly, B744 QF8 used to be quite a frequent visitor to NOU.

I don't think it was ever frequent, but yes, it's certainly been there a few times. Brisbane is often viable around that time, and is far preferable.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes, though not a preferred option. Ground handling was a big issue.

I don't think it was ever frequent, but yes, it's certainly been there a few times. Brisbane is often viable around that time, and is far preferable.

I'm exaggerating obviously.

But clearly Brisbane is preferable for the B744 QF8, since that was the destination (I assume you were referring to the SYD routes).

 

[jb747]

JB, Mr Insight and others: any thoughts on this UA 777 situation out of Hawaii?

Latest, though unconfirmed, is that the NTSB are looking at their flap retraction timing.

But clearly Brisbane is preferable for the B744 QF8, since that was the destination (I assume you were referring to the SYD routes).

I only ever did that flight in the 380, and had forgotten about the 747 services.

 

[QF WP]

The Nepalese equivalent of CASA have released a preliminary report on the recent crash:

 

[Quickstatus]

preliminary report

discussed here