Ask The Pilot

[AviatorInsight]

AV, are crew allowed to enter, say on longer runs, to sit in the jump and just chill? Or only CM?

Any one of the operating crew are allowed to come in and chill. Unfortunately it’s very few and far between these days that will actually come up for a chat.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Was on todays (15/3) QF119 BNE-AKL A330-2xx service. Tech crew was made up of 3 * Captains and 1 * FO. Similar to QF32 does this indicate someone was doing an A330 command endorsement and someone was checking the checker?

BNE-AKL-BNE would be a minimal duration route to do something like this on.

As an aside flew back to SYD on QF148 AKL-SYD. It was delayed more than 2hrs+ leaving AKL now scheduled to arrive into SYD at 2235. Was advised around lunchtime today of the delay. Looking at FR24 VH-QPD the operating aircraft was delayed in the network by 2hrs+ from 3-4 days ago and never caught up with an ontime departure or arrival. I understand and accept there will be delays but if the company knows there will be a delay to a future flight why delay notifying passengers until it is too late to make alternative plans?

 

[jb747]

What was the reason for pilot exchange?

Not just pilots. Exchanges exist across the military, in all branches, and with all sort of qualifications. In large part they exist to widen our training base. If you always train with the same people, using the same sort of equipment, you’ll actually have a narrow training focus. For instance, if you always dogfight F18s, you’ll know their foibles, but it may not be much use against another type of aircraft. And, for exchanges with the USA, they have dramatically larger range of equipment that we’d ever normally have access to, so even a few people learning about that can filter back to our overall operation. Only the best ever get sent, so it also acts as both a goal and a reward.

My small part of the navy had a much bigger experience base than just our A-4s. We had multiple people who had flown the A-7, and Harriers in both AV8A and Sea Harrier form. Whilst there was never any chance of us seeing A-7s, the technology of the A-7E also existed within the AV8B, so they would have provided a core of people to introduce the new type if it had happened.

Over in the RAAF, they‘ve had a least one pilot exchange on the F22, and would presumably have some on the F35. Friends of mine have had exchanges on the F15 and F16, and the UK’s Tornado and Lightning. And there was even an exchange between the RAAF and the RAN, where one of our pilots went to the Mirage, whilst one of theirs flew the A-4.

And I just remembered another small example. An RAAF pilot was posted to the Empire Test Pilots’ course, and the RAAF sent him around their bases to have a fly of as many aircraft as possible. They asked for some A-4 time. As we didn’t actually have many hours for our own pilots, the response was that yes, he could have 10, as long as one of our people got the same in the Mirage. And so one of the young blokes went off to Williamtown and made some very fast holes in the sky.

 

[jb747]

Was on today’s (15/3) QF119 BNE-AKL A330-2xx service. Tech crew was made up of 3 * Captains and 1 * FO. Similar to QF32 does this indicate someone was doing an A330 command endorsement and someone was checking the checker?

Starting with QF32, RdC wasn’t doing a command endorsement. He was already qualified.

Each year, all of the Captains and FOs are individually ‘route checked’. It can be any sector. In long haul it was generally only one sector, but it had to be over two hours, or alternatively two shorter sectors. What they want to see is a normal operation, with you dealing with whatever happens, with no script at all.

So, my guess would be the normal annual route check, but with a checker who is under training.

It was amazing just how often route checks would coincide with something quite unusual. On one of my last, into LA, I had unsafe gear and my one and only 380 go around. Nice after a 15 hour flight. So, you get the opportunity to look really good, or to dig yourself a hole.

BNE-AKL-BNE would be a minimal duration route to do something like this on.

Two sectors…

As an aside flew back to SYD on QF148 AKL-SYD. It was delayed more than 2hrs+ leaving AKL now scheduled to arrive into SYD at 2235. Was advised around lunchtime today of the delay. Looking at FR24 VH-QPD the operating aircraft was delayed in the network by 2hrs+ from 3-4 days ago and never caught up with an ontime departure or arrival. I understand and accept there will be delays but if the company knows there will be a delay to a future flight why delay notifying passengers until it is too late to make alternative plans?

A couple of days out, I doubt that the aircraft would be more than lightly pencilled in, and it would be likely to be changed around. Beyond that though, it’s the realm of commercial, and not within a pilot‘s world.

 

[MARTINE]

This is fascinating information. Thankyou to our pilot friends. Over 30 years ago when I did my aviation medicine training (long since retired) we listened to hours of blackbox recordings. In the psychology section the term ‘coughpit gradient’ was identified as a factor in many incidents - where the power imbalance prevented the copilot identifying a potential disaster. It was a long time ago.
I assume this is less of an issue now and trained ‘out’
Would love to hear your perspective?

 

[jb747]

Over 30 years ago when I did my aviation medicine training (long since retired) we listened to hours of blackbox recordings. In the psychology section the term ‘coughpit gradient’ was identified as a factor in many incidents - where the power imbalance prevented the copilot identifying a potential disaster. It was a long time ago.
I assume this is less of an issue now and trained ‘out’
Would love to hear your perspective?

Specific CRM training was introduced around 30 years ago. The initial idea was to ensure the quieter amongst the crew stood up and made themselves heard, whilst simultaneously getting some of the more dictatorial to accept their input. Worth noting that the dictators were not necessarily the most senior. The concept of ensuring that as Captain, you used all the resources available to you, by default, really meant at least listening to input.

Like everything, it also swung too far at times. A coughpit is not a democracy. The buck has to stop with one seat only. But, as long as it's a benign dictatorship, then it will work.

There are events that just must be dealt with immediately. Then you issue orders. But, as soon as possible, you back up, and get the other(s) to go over what's been done, and look for any missed alternatives. That remains inclusive, whilst covering the immediacy of some events. For more day to day items, it often works well to do it in reverse. Hear everyone one else's ideas first...chances are you'll never need to put up your own!

Interestingly, there's an Australian characteristic that is generally a negative, but which can help in the coughpit. The tall poppy syndrome isn't normally viewed in positive way, but I think it makes it easier for Australian crews to speak up, and also easier for the senior to listen.

 

[MARTINE]

Specific CRM training was introduced around 30 years ago. The initial idea was to ensure the quieter amongst the crew stood up and made themselves heard, whilst simultaneously getting some of the more dictatorial to accept their input. Worth noting that the dictators were not necessarily the most senior. The concept of ensuring that as Captain, you used all the resources available to you, by default, really meant at least listening to input.

Like everything, it also swung too far at times. A coughpit is not a democracy. The buck has to stop with one seat only. But, as long as it's a benign dictatorship, then it will work.

There are events that just must be dealt with immediately. Then you issue orders. But, as soon as possible, you back up, and get the other(s) to go over what's been done, and look for any missed alternatives. That remains inclusive, whilst covering the immediacy of some events. For more day to day items, it often works well to do it in reverse. Hear everyone one else's ideas first...chances are you'll never need to put up your own!

Interestingly, there's an Australian characteristic that is generally a negative, but which can help in the coughpit. The tall poppy syndrome isn't normally viewed in positive way, but I think it makes it easier for Australian crews to speak up, and also easier for the senior to listen.

Thanks @jb747
Even thirty years ago it was said that Australian egalitarianism was a positive in these types of situations and less likely to result in deferential attitudes before disaster. I also remember the meaning of the phrase ‘emergency landing in rough terrain’.
Thankfully first and only time I ever heard it.

 

[flyer89]

Interestingly, there's an Australian characteristic that is generally a negative, but which can help in the coughpit. The tall poppy syndrome isn't normally viewed in positive way, but I think it makes it easier for Australian crews to speak up, and also easier for the senior to listen.

I believe an academic in the UK researched this phenomenon several years ago as part of a broader study into flight safety and culture and how the two intersect. His conclusion on why Australia tends to have an above average level of safety was “because Australians have absolutely no respect for authority”.

 

[D747]

Although I posted a laugh at the comment above, my experience is that Australians have no issue with authority at all, as long as the authority is competent and just. We don't have a structured class system, which can lead to huge problems, and we also have a culture of speaking out.

 

[Saab34]

JB did you notice a CRM difference between ex cadet FOs vs those from Air Force or say GA? I was talking to a Captain recently who said while he mentored and advised the cadets on CRM, but he said he still didn’t believe they would challenge him, they just sit and wait for instructions. He notices the difference when he flies with ex GA FOs or those from the airforce, they don’t always just sit and do challenge, ask questions.

 

[jb747]

JB did you notice a CRM difference between ex cadet FOs vs those from Air Force or say GA? I was talking to a Captain recently who said while he mentored and advised the cadets on CRM, but he said he still didn’t believe they would challenge him, they just sit and wait for instructions. He notices the difference when he flies with ex GA FOs or those from the airforce, they don’t always just sit and do challenge, ask questions.

You have to remember that I was only ever part of QF mainline, and we simply didn’t see any FOs until they had been around for quite a few years. The instant FOs from cadets are not part of that system. The closest would be the low hour SOs, but even then I think the minimum was over 500 hours.

It’s probably easier for an ex RAAF person to query people in their early trips, but I found that most of the SOs, irrespective of their background, were generally quite willing to speak up. I think a lot will come back to just how they’re treated when they do. As was told to me once, when I suggested a Captain was doing something wrong “I’m not, (and he explained why), but don’t let this stop you asking. You only have to be right once, and you might save the entire operation”.

Within QF, backgrounds do even out somewhat. The RAAF person is probably miles ahead in his operation of the aircraft in his first few years, but the pilots from other backgrounds will close up as they gain experience. After a few years, most were essentially equal, with the difference coming down to their personal capability, not their training path.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/miracle-pilot-takes-off-for-the-last-time/

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.

Heard this week that retired BA Captain Eric Moody passed away. Captain Moody was in command of BA009 flying from Kuala Lumpur to Perth when it entered volcanic ash.

 

[jb747]

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/miracle-pilot-takes-off-for-the-last-time/

Apologies if this has been posted elsewhere.

Heard this week that retired BA Captain Eric Moody passed away. Captain Moody was in command of BA009 flying from Kuala Lumpur to Perth when it entered volcanic ash.

Sad to hear. Until that event, I don’t think anybody realised how dangerous volcanic ash could be. I’ll bet my PA wasn’t that calm!

 

[ChrisGibbs]

Sad to hear. Until that event, I don’t think anybody realised how dangerous volcanic ash could be. I’ll bet my PA wasn’t that calm!

Back in April, 2010 I spent an additional 5 days in London with the North European airspace shutdown due to Icelandic Volcano Eyjafjallajökull erupting. There was a huge amount of caution with all the discussion being around the BA009 incident from back in 1982....

His PA was 'Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control. I trust you are not in too much distress.'

@jb747 - do you remember your QF30 PA?

 

[jb747]

Back in April, 2010 I spent an additional 5 days in London with the North European airspace shutdown due to Icelandic Volcano Eyjafjallajökull erupting. There was a huge amount of caution with all the discussion being around the BA009 incident from back in 1982....

I was in the London hotel, having breakfast, when one of the staff came in with a phone, looking for any QF Captains. I took the phone, and it was ops, who wanted me to take anyone I could find, and head to the airport. They had a 747 and a 380 they wanted moved. We had no idea where they wanted the aircraft moved to, and thought it might be just somewhere over in Europe. As it turned out, they wanted them in Singapore. Plus they’d been busy gathering up passengers, and had about 70% loads for the 380 (don’t know about the other). So, we got the AB flashed up as soon as we could and taxied. The 747 was a little behind us, and as it turned out, was the last aircraft that was allowed to depart before the airspace closed.

@jb747 - do you remember your QF30 PA?

Remember it? No. It wasn’t until we’d levelled off and were pointed at Manila. I may have posted it years ago, but don’t recall it. Much of that flight was using the Italian driving theory….”what’s behind me doesn’t matter”.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

I was in the London hotel, having breakfast, when one of the staff came in with a phone, looking for any QF Captains. I took the phone, and it was ops, who wanted me to take anyone I could find, and head to the airport. They had a 747 and a 380 they wanted moved. We had no idea where they wanted the aircraft moved to, and thought it might be just somewhere over in Europe. As it turned out, they wanted them in Singapore. Plus they’d been busy gathering up passengers, and had about 70% loads for the 380 (don’t know about the other). So, we got the AB flashed up as soon as we could and taxied. The 747 was a little behind us, and as it turned out, was the last aircraft that was allowed to depart before the airspace closed.

I was staying at Le Meridien in Piccadilly with a late checkout and scheduled to fly out on the 15th April, 2010 QF2 Thursday evening service. On the morning of the 15th I had a couple of meetings at BT's, Ipswich site and was on a train up to Ipswich from London and got a call from the Qantas Reservations team at around 09:00am my telling me the evenings QF2 service was cancelled and if I wanted to get out of London anytime soon I needed to get myself to Heathrow by lunchtime for what ended up being the last Qantas passenger service our of Heathrow for at least a week..... I didn't make it back in time.

When I returned to London I had been punted from the Le Meridien and ended up at one of the Sheraton's in London. After a bunch of calls with Qantas they said if I could get myself to Madrid Airport (the most Northern airport remaining open) then they could get me back to Sydney. I ended up leaving London on Monday morning 19 April on a Eurostar to Paris. Then a self-drive rental car from Paris to Madrid then onto Iberia from Madrid to Buenos Aires, Argentina then on a QF747 from Buenos Aires to Sydney. Some Australians and Kiwis I ran into at the Sheraton ended up spending nearly 2 weeks in London before they could get out...

 

[jb747]

Some Australians and Kiwis I ran into at the Sheraton ended up spending nearly 2 weeks in London before they could get out...

The bloke who was supposed to take the aircraft I flew out (from my pilots' course, so an old friend) was out for a walk and missed the call. He was stuck for over a week. Normally that would be a good deal...

 

[Duffa]

Although I posted a laugh at the comment above, my experience is that Australians have no issue with authority at all, as long as the authority is competent and just. We don't have a structured class system, which can lead to huge problems, and we also have a culture of speaking out.

There is a corollary to our speaking up culture. As a migrant to this wonderful country, I sometimes find the "everyone's opinion is important" philosophy a bit tedious. Having to listen to every moron chuck in their 2-bobs worth, whilst politely nodding in encouragement, can be incredibly frustrating. Ultimately, I am the boss and responsible when it all goes wrong, so STFU and do your job.

 

[jb747]

Are you talking about flying, or something on the ground?

 

[Duffa]

Are you talking about flying, or something on the ground?

On the ground.
I'm all for graded assertiveness and it no doubt, saves many lives, especially in the air.
I just think it has gone a bit far.