Ask The Pilot

[flyer89]

Would the pilots on here have continued this all the way into landing or gone around? I'm not sure if the nose gear is designed to absorb that... TAP landing at Madeira

The only thing more insane than this…..demonstration of what happens when you participate in bring your kids to work day and you’re a pilot is this from the comments section:

“You have to have special training to fly here, so not only are they experts, but experts at this particular location.This is actually a relatively tame landing, compared to other ones at this airport, which is known for strong winds and crazy landings. I’m surprised this even got any attention.”

 

[RSD]

The only thing more insane than this…..demonstration of what happens when you participate in bring your kids to work day and you’re a pilot is this from the comments section:

“You have to have special training to fly here, so not only are they experts, but experts at this particular location. This is actually a relatively tame landing, compared to other ones at this airport, which is known for strong winds and crazy landings. I’m surprised this even got any attention.”

Hmmm - must be a lot of busted aeroplanes at the end of the runway then! If landing hard on the nose gear first is considered to be a relatively tame landing there then any desire I ever had to go there has just rapidly disappeared!

 

[Larko1]

This was LHR yesterday....Bloody hell

 

[TheRealTMA]

This was LHR yesterday....Bloody hell

What’s he going on about. All perfectly normal landings in weather. Turn off the audio. Very Annoying.

 

[jb747]

“You have to have special training to fly here, so not only are they experts, but experts at this particular location.This is actually a relatively tame landing, compared to other ones at this airport, which is known for strong winds and crazy landings. I’m surprised this even got any attention.”

How to tell everyone that you aren't really a pilot, no matter what you claim.

This was LHR yesterday....Bloody hell

London in February and March. Screaming southerlies.

None of them stood out as being all that bad (perhaps the SQ freighter was a bit solid, but their pax wouldn't care). Given the conditions, they were all pretty stable...totally unlike the video that started this conversation. All nose gear was safe too. Some were particularly tidy. Curious about the EK 380 that went around with the gear down. Might have been a bit more to that story.

My only diversion away from London was on a morning like this, but it was raining heavily as well, which reduced the crosswind limit to 25 knots. We took the -400 over to Amsterdam. When we came back the wind was even stronger, but not wet any more, which gave us back the full 38 knots.

Watch the rudder activity and yawing on the 380s. Lower rudder is the FBW countering sideslip. The yawing is initially disconcerting, but once you get used to it, the effect is quite helpful.

 

[Saab34]

Curious about the EK 380 that went around with the gear down. Might have been a bit more to that story.

Got caught out with low airspeed?

 

[jb747]

Got caught out with low airspeed?

I’m curious as to why you think that could be an issue. The pitch attitudes are normal, so it’s no slower than usual. It also has a full flight regime auto throttle, which handles these conditions well.

The procedure for a go around is for the pilot flying to call ”go around, flaps”, whilst rotating to about 10º and pushing the thrust levers all the way to TO/GA. Depending upon the why of the go around, you might then pull back one notch, to FLEX/MCT. The non flying pilot retracts the flap one stage, looks for the correct annunciations, and as soon as he sees a positive rate of climb, calls that. The response is then “gear up”. So, gear retraction should happen quite quickly, and in this case it hasn’t.

 

[Saab34]

I’m curious as to why you think that could be an issue.

Purely trying to think of something that as you mentioned, delayed the procedures flow of the go around. Sounds like workload was heavy for them.

But as you mention, it’s a fairly simple memory item isn’t it? The flow seems pretty basic. Would be interested to see why the gear was kept down, alas, we will likely never know.

Is it common in such scenarios JB like a missed approach, that crew get flustered, forget the whole aviate/navigate/comm, and get a bit sidetracked? Things get missed and so on. I know we have seen pilots ready for flaps instead of gear in a few of these missed approaches.

 

[jb747]

Is it common in such scenarios JB like a missed approach, that crew get flustered, forget the whole aviate/navigate/comm, and get a bit sidetracked? Things get missed and so on. I know we have seen pilots ready for flaps instead of gear in a few of these missed approaches.

It happens, but can be alleviated by a proper briefing. They're really just takeoffs, without the ground roll, so they become easy as soon as you put the aircraft back into a normal T/O configuration. Tracking can be complex, but the 380 FMC is pretty smart and helpful. In this instance (27L), the go-around is straight ahead, climbing to 2,000'. Once you pass 1080' and the end of runway, left turn to track 147º. Passing 6nm LON DME, climb to 3,000'.

The one instance where you do leave the gear down is if it follows a windshear warning. But his pitch attitude doesn't seem high enough for that, and even then I'd expect the gear to be on the way up before he turns.

 

[Saab34]

AV, have you ever done a landing like this

 

[AviatorInsight]

AV, have you ever done a landing like this

Proud to say I have never done that. One bounce is enough for me

Although, that’s what should happen when you arm the speedbrakes. Which in this case I think they forgot.

Noted by the fact that they had positive weight on wheels (twice!) and that they didn’t deploy until the reversers were engaged which is an automatic function if you forget to arm them for the landing.

 

[Saab34]

Is that common for one to forget to arm them?

 

[jb747]

Is that common for one to forget to arm them?

Shouldn't be. It's part of the landing checklist on the 747/767 and 380. I'd expect the 737 to be the same.

In most cases the aircraft don't really bounce. It's just that the pilot has kept the rotation going for a degree or so too far, and has basically taken off again. I'm from the navy, we weren't into that flaring stuff.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Is that common for one to forget to arm them?

I wouldn’t say it’s common but it definitely does happen.

It is part of the landing checklist which needs to be completed by 1000ft. Every airline will have their own stabilisation criteria and point at which the aircraft can continue if it’s within parameters.

 

[mjt57]

AV, have you ever done a landing like this

I wonder if that was Big Ern....

 

[Saab34]

How frequent do you get alcohol/drug tested? And what time of the shift is it? Ie- in coughpit or during security screening and so forth.

I noted a Pilot in the news today who got caught on a ‘random’ test and he was over the limit and suspended etc.

 

[jb747]

How frequent do you get alcohol/drug tested? And what time of the shift is it? Ie- in coughpit or during security screening and so forth.

I noted a Pilot in the news today who got caught on a ‘random’ test and he was over the limit and suspended etc.

I can't really tell you much about this at all. Whilst it existed for some years prior to my retirement, I never saw it in action. Whilst we were told that it was random, and you'd expect to be tested about once per year, my feeling was that it tended to be much more targeted. They'd test everyone in a particular crew, or with similar departure times, but were actually looking at one person with some form of history. I know of two people who were pinged. One had a real problem, that was never resolved, and simply disappeared. The other was rather sad, as further investigation actually showed that he had terminal cancer.

 

[Saab34]

I can't really tell you much about this at all. Whilst it existed for some years prior to my retirement, I never saw it in action. Whilst we were told that it was random, and you'd expect to be tested about once per year, my feeling was that it tended to be much more targeted. They'd test everyone in a particular crew, or with similar departure times, but were actually looking at one person with some form of history. I know of two people who were pinged. One had a real problem, that was never resolved, and simply disappeared. The other was rather sad, as further investigation actually showed that he had terminal cancer.

Thanks JB. I also got a small hint that this was targeted also, even though the article said it was simply a random test.

Likely some other reports from inside, be it anonymous or not, results in a ‘random’ test on a certain group of flight crew later on.

Also in two minds if a company should fire, or simply offer rehabilitation then return to the workplace. The drug and alcohol rules are pretty clear for operational crew, and the consequences are pretty severe for someone at the controls if still impacted. I would be leaning towards termination but perhaps I am too heavy handed.

 

[jb747]

Also in two minds if a company should fire, or simply offer rehabilitation then return to the workplace. The drug and alcohol rules are pretty clear for operational crew, and the consequences are pretty severe for someone at the controls if still impacted. I would be leaning towards termination but perhaps I am too heavy handed.

Do punitive measures ever work? Anyone who is caught out will be subject to the laws of whatever country they're in. That can be bad enough in itself.

Do we accept that it's an illness? If it is, shouldn't we work towards treating it?

Regulators, and the medical world, already have a huge problem with pilots, in that they aren't trusted, and pilots need to have major body parts falling off before being willing to see a doctor. I suspect that hidden illnesses are far more an issue than alcohol rule breaches. There's more to be gained by working out a way of improving that trust, than there is from never ending beatings.

 

[flyer89]

Regulators, and the medical world, already have a huge problem with pilots, in that they aren't trusted, and pilots need to have major body parts falling off before being willing to see a doctor. I suspect that hidden illnesses are far more an issue than alcohol rule breaches. There's more to be gained by working out a way of improving that trust, than there is from never ending beatings.

When I was very young one of the old boys told me to never disclose anything medically. Family history? Non existent. It’s very sad that he felt compelled to tell me that ( others also told me after this) however, it was sage advice.