Ask The Pilot

[markis10]

Silly question from me.

Could an A380 or B747 perform a loop the loop and/or barrel roll?

Dynasty 006 had a bit of a try at both inadvertently, as a 747SP, landed with some bits missing and a disbelieving Boeing until they looked at the FDR.

http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/Incidents/DOCS/ComAndRep/ChinaAir/AAR8603.html

 

[Flying Fox]

... was that with or without pax on board?

Not fussed but I was initially thinking no pax. However, if it was safe, I would be happy to be on-board too!

 

[NM]

Dynasty 006 had a bit of a try at both inadvertently, as a 747SP, landed with some bits missing and a disbelieving Boeing until they looked at the FDR.

China Airlines B747SP Loss of Power and Inflight Upset

And a 707 (or Dash 80 to be more precise) can roll

YouTube - ‪Boeing company 707 dash 80 completes a barrel roll during early flight testing to show the aircrafts abilities‬‏

Well at least the person giving the explanation in the video is a pilot

 

[jb747]

Great thread and thanks to all who have contributed.Jb747, what are some examples of airlines not having a safety culture in this region? Surely there are certain rules that are mandatory to follow?

Following the rules, does not mean you have a safety culture. That's simply a case of doing the minimum you can legally get away with.

Poor culture...well how about the email response to pilots who were fatigued by a management pilot, calling them princesses (it came up at the senate inquiry)? That's the exact opposite of a safety culture.

 

[jb747]

Silly question from me.

Could an A380 or B747 perform a loop the loop and/or barrel roll?

A380 control laws would stop it doing anything much normally. 747 could possibly be rolled, but you'd want to get it right, as it would be easy to throw an engine.

Loop...no way.

 

[Jobu]

Have you ever had passengers clap after a landing and did it make you cringe?

Happens regularly in Europe and South America. Probably the pilots can't hear it though.

 

[Jobu]

JB thanks for all the stories. You're a legend!

I think I've flown a few times on your flights.

The last couple in a row have been with Capt Wayne Spalding (don't always catch the captain's name to be honest, and some use that monotonous captain voice that makes it hard to hear a word). Wish I could pop down to the coughpit and say hi, managed to meet a lot of the cabin crew and CSMs over time. Occasionally (very rarely) the captain comes out and meets and greets the pax. Last time I was able to get into the coughpit (talk about an amazing office) was a few months ago, flying in F and the computers malfunctioned before takeoff, so we had to wait for the Airbus techies to come on board. Luckily the hosties had lots of champers. Unluckily this made me think I could help, stumbling into the coughpit and declaring that a quick reboot should fix things... Luckily the real techies showed up just then!

So here are some random questions:

1. Is it ok to throw toilet paper into the toilet - I really don't understand the sign on the toilet bowl! The one with the paper crossed out... (sorry if I clogged the pipes!)

2. Do the toilets /septic tanks drain in the sky?

3. Why do the window blinds need to be open and lights dimmed on take-off / landing? Is it just for pax enjoyment?

4. Will the brace position really help?

5. On a flight with Varig, I requested the emergency exit seat. The check in lady said that she could not seat anyone there as she had to balance the plane... True enough, the cabin was full in the front and back, and empty in the middle. Was she for real??

6. Mobile phones, iPods, laptops, do these seriously cause interference?

7. The coughpit door looks pretty secure these days. Do pax still try to get in?

8. On smaller planes when they ask pax to return to their seats for landing, is this for weight distribution or body identification?

9. When you're driving at home, do you catch yourself looking for your altitude, announcing to your kids "this is your captain speaking" and asking your wife to reignite engines?

Cheers

J

 

[anat0l]

Whilst we can't do much about bean counters (having been in a few companies I unfortunately already harbour a rather distasteful opinion of the Accounting department - except the one I'm currently at), if there was one (or two if you must) significant change to procedures, allowances or the workforce you would make in the interests of safety, what would it be?

And perhaps I should ask for a slightly more tangible answer than, "More sleep. More breaks. Four PE return seats per year and a free trip to the Bahamas."

I'll have to think about this. Give me a couple of days.

Any further thoughts on answering this question? You can say "no comment" if you wish...




And some more questions:

In your opinion (and / or experience), which are the most difficult airports to land a widebody aircraft at, and why? (Or any aircraft for that matter?) I guess I'll leave the definition of 'difficult' up to you, but I guess these are experiences which cadets / new pilots would need to be most mindful of (perhaps it's best not to send them flying here until they have some experience). I guess Kai Tak makes the list..... how would you prepare a pilot who had never flown to such airports before to land there for the first time? (I mean, it's not like learning to drive where you get plenty of on-road experience after you get your license to learn how to merge lanes, park the car, hill-start, etc.)

 

[rwatts]

I guess Kai Tak makes the list..... how would you prepare a pilot who had never flown to such airports before to land there for the first time? (I mean, it's not like learning to drive where you get plenty of on-road experience after you get your license to learn how to merge lanes, park the car, hill-start, etc.)

Around twenty years ago I had the privilege of a session on the RAAF's P3 (Orion) simulator. Quite a few airports, and cities generally, were extremely well represented - Kai Tak especially so. All of the visual landmarks (eg a large Coca Cola sign) and navigational beacons of course were included. I dare say by the time a pilot actually got to Hong Kong for the first time, they had a pretty good idea of exactly where they were going, what visual clues to use and the various weather effects to expect, as well as where to go when the unexpected hit.

Richard.
[Incredible system at the time - a room full of separate computers (mainly PDP-11s with a VAX or two thrown in) each handling separate aspects such as visuals, motion, force-feedback, etc.]

 

[NM]

Going back to the question about rolling an airliners, for those who have flown inverted (in any type), what special control inputs are required? As the wings are designed to generate lift in normal flight, surely they are "lifting" the aircraft in the same direction as the gravitational force when inverted. So is the pilot adding sufficient elevator inputs to put the aircraft into an upward "dive" of sufficient force to counteract the negative lift and gravity? I always wonder this when seeing footage of inverted flight and the transition from normal flight through the roll to inverted always looks pretty smooth and does not seem to include a "catch" as it inverts.

 

[Sifor]

I can answer a few of these

2. Do the toilets /septic tanks drain in the sky?

No, waste is pumped out.

3. Why do the window blinds need to be open and lights dimmed on take-off / landing? Is it just for pax enjoyment?

I believe it is for situational awareness so that people can see what's going on outside if there's an emergency.

8. On smaller planes when they ask pax to return to their seats for landing, is this for weight distribution or body identification?

Probably so that you don't have people falling over and hurting themselves on landing.

 

[jb747]

Any further thoughts on answering this question? You can say "no comment" if you wish...

I can think of lots of things that they can do to reduce safety. Other than engaging the workforce, not much they can do to improve it. It simply isn't something that emanates from an ivory tower.

In your opinion (and / or experience), which are the most difficult airports to land a widebody aircraft at, and why? (Or any aircraft for that matter?) I guess I'll leave the definition of 'difficult' up to you, but I guess these are experiences which cadets / new pilots would need to be most mindful of (perhaps it's best not to send them flying here until they have some experience). I guess Kai Tak makes the list..... how would you prepare a pilot who had never flown to such airports before to land there for the first time? (I mean, it's not like learning to drive where you get plenty of on-road experience after you get your license to learn how to merge lanes, park the car, hill-start, etc.)

There are an awful lot of airports that I've never been to, so I expect the worst one is there. Wellington was always fun, as it is very short, and normally extremely windy. The old Kai Tak was quite fun, as long as you had a think about it beforehand. The new HK airport probably has even worse windshear issues though. I don't think cadets should be allowed in the front seats...end of that story. Simulators help, but they really are not the same as the real world. Gusty winds in particular are normally much worse....

New York would be the worst airport that I've ever operated to, but its only difficult whilst you're on the ground. Very narrow taxiways, and controllers who are, at best, unforgiving of anyone who is not a Bronx local.

 

[jb747]

1. Is it ok to throw toilet paper into the toilet - I really don't understand the sign on the toilet bowl! The one with the paper crossed out... (sorry if I clogged the pipes!)

Toilet paper...of course. Just don't stick the newspaper down there. The biggest cause of blocked systems is women getting rid of disposable nappies. They'll block it up every time.

2. Do the toilets /septic tanks drain in the sky?

Oh no....pumped out on arrival.

3. Why do the window blinds need to be open and lights dimmed on take-off / landing? Is it just for pax enjoyment?

Good question. I think it makes no difference whatsoever, but I don't set that policy.

4. Will the brace position really help?

Depends how fast you're going and what you hit. Better than nothing.....

5. On a flight with Varig, I requested the emergency exit seat. The check in lady said that she could not seat anyone there as she had to balance the plane... True enough, the cabin was full in the front and back, and empty in the middle. Was she for real??

Yep, that can be true. Mostly passengers are spread out, and cause no real imbalance problems, but cargo can be heavy and may upset the whole passenger loading.

6. Mobile phones, iPods, laptops, do these seriously cause interference?

Like everything in aviation, it's a game of odds. Will they cause a problem on a given flight? Almost certainly not. But they can, and the problem is that it could be almost anything. I've seen a child's toy, which, when turned on, caused the 767 to gently rock from side to side. Only happened within a few feet of a specific seat.

7. The coughpit door looks pretty secure these days. Do pax still try to get in?

Not that I've seen lately, although I suspect some still think there's a toilet in there that they can use. Some aircraft have a 'lobby' set up, so the door that you see does not actually let you into the coughpit, but rather to an intermediate area.

8. On smaller planes when they ask pax to return to their seats for landing, is this for weight distribution or body identification?

Perhaps because they want you seated for the landing.

9. When you're driving at home, do you catch yourself looking for your altitude, announcing to your kids "this is your captain speaking" and asking your wife to reignite engines?

No. I normally leave that persona at work.

 

[QF029]

6. Mobile phones, iPods, laptops, do these seriously cause interference?

I'm interested in this too. My assumption is that ipods etc can't be used in take off & landing so that you can hear announcements in the event of an emergency.

Many years ago I was asked to turn off my Discman (CD) on a long distance bus in Turkey because it was causing interference!:shock:

 

[jb747]

Going back to the question about rolling an airliners, for those who have flown inverted (in any type), what special control inputs are required? As the wings are designed to generate lift in normal flight, surely they are "lifting" the aircraft in the same direction as the gravitational force when inverted. So is the pilot adding sufficient elevator inputs to put the aircraft into an upward "dive" of sufficient force to counteract the negative lift and gravity? I always wonder this when seeing footage of inverted flight and the transition from normal flight through the roll to inverted always looks pretty smooth and does not seem to include a "catch" as it inverts.

Well, there's two basic sorts of roll. A barrel roll, and a slow roll. The old 707 trick was a barrel roll. In that the aircraft is under positive g the whole time.

A slow roll, on the other hand requires a whole series of inputs, all designed to keep the nose up. As the roll is started, top rudder is applied, so that at the 90 degree roll position, pretty much full top rudder will be applied. The stick position will be forward at this point as you want the wing to be producing zero g. Continuing to the inverted, the rudder is central, but now there is a lot of forward stick, to generate the minus one g that you'll need. And as the roll is continued you need to smoothly reapply top rudder (which is now the opposite), again reducing the forward stick...and eventually zero rudder and positive one g again. A fun coordination exercise, that normally resulted in lots of unusual attitude recoveries when pilots were originally being taught. In an airliner...no way.....

 

[Sifor]

While not about airliners, I've often wondered why the Australian Government back in 2007 did not pursue US Congress for access to the F-22 Raptor...Yes they were a prohibited export, however I read somewhere that US DOD wouldn't have had any issues giving us some. It's too late now since Raptor production has ceased in favour of the F-35 JSF, nevertheless the question still remains why we chose the JSF over the Raptor.

This site here discusses very much in detail why the Raptor is more suitable than the JSF. Even if you're not aviation-savvy one can see, prima facie, how the Raptor is superior over the JSF - thrust vectoring (good takeoff example here), longer rage, higher speeds, supercrusing engines, reduced heat and radar signature. Even now the cost of the JSF has blown out so much that it's pretty much on par with the Raptor.

I recall that when Australia was determining what fighter aircraft to purchase back in the 80s we chose the Hornet over the F-16 because the hornet had two engines, an important consideration when we are surrounded by water... seems as though that reasoning was not employed during the F-35 acquisition decision.

JB747 given your previous military career, what do you think of our future air capability? Considering both Russia (Sukhoi PAK FA aka T-50) and China (Chengdu J-20) are developing Raptor equivalent jets it almost suggests America and her allies will be behind the eight ball for the first time thanks to the JSF...

 

[Jobu]

I'm interested in this too. My assumption is that ipods etc can't be used in take off & landing so that you can hear announcements in the event of an emergency.

Many years ago I was asked to turn off my Discman (CD) on a long distance bus in Turkey because it was causing interference!:shock:

The problem is I have seen so many people leave their mobile phones, ipods etc on. trying to make calls on take off, trying to receive calls on final approach, etc. I don't know whether to be outraged and throw my headphones at them, yell for a FA and point or shrug indifferently...

But a child's toy causing a 767 to rock from side to side - wow!

 

[jb747]

JB747 given your previous military career, what do you think of our future air capability? Considering both Russia (Sukhoi PAK FA aka T-50) and China (Chengdu J-20) are developing Raptor equivalent jets it almost suggests America and her allies will be behind the eight ball for the first time thanks to the JSF...

I really haven't followed any of this. I think we need some numbers, and token amounts of very capable aircraft are of limited value. For that reason, I wonder if we won't end up going with 100 Super Hornets and forgetting about the JSF entirely.

I'd also expect that if the F22 had been pursued, it would have been a crippled version (and perhaps the same will apply to the JSF).

But, why not think laterally? Why not a dozen or so 747s? Fitted with an AWACs radar, and a couple of rotary launchers for AIM54, Tomahawk, etc....would we need fighters at all?

 

[codash1099]

3. Why do the window blinds need to be open and lights dimmed on take-off / landing? Is it just for pax enjoyment?

This seems to vary a bit between airlines. On a few AA flights, they didn't make a big deal about it (at least compared to QF) and on my last JAL flight ex HNL, they had closed the blinds to keep the A/C cool and didn't bother with re-opening before take-off

 

[Austman]

3. Why do the window blinds need to be open and lights dimmed on take-off / landing? Is it just for pax enjoyment?

I've been told that (especially on night flights) it's so passenger's eyes adjust more to the outside light level. Which might be a benefit if an emergency evacuation is needed.