Ask The Pilot

[Saab34]

thanks. Are you allowed to use the wifi in the coughpit and use the phone mid flight?

 

[AviatorInsight]

what is the phone policy during shift? Turn off completely or is silent enough? What are the period the company allows you to turn it on? Turnarounds?

Should be on flight mode prior to pushback. Same goes for our iPads too.

During the turnarounds are obviously ok. Especially if we need to make a call to flight ops for fuel and/or crewing.

thanks. Are you allowed to use the wifi in the coughpit and use the phone mid flight?

No.

 

[Saab34]

During the turnarounds are obviously ok. Especially if we need to make a call to flight ops for fuel and/or crewing.

Thanks AV

What sort of things would you be calling crewing about? What sort of things does that department deal with?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Thanks AV

What sort of things would you be calling crewing about? What sort of things does that department deal with?

At the moment…a change of duty most likely.

They handle everything with regards to our duty. Delays, extensions, changes, etc.

 

[jb747]

thanks. Are you allowed to use the wifi in the coughpit and use the phone mid flight?

The 380 & 747 had a satphone that we'd use for any necessary calls in flight, and also for many calls on the ground when overseas.

 

[RooFlyer]

@AviatorInsight I was on VA 1533 HBA-SYD this afternoon. Boarding was odd at first as 2 guys in uniform were in the terminal as we started boarding (they then walked past us on the apron to board ahead). Maybe paxing crew?

There as a delay before we pushed back, and then we sat on the apron for about 20 minutes. Capt/FO came on and said "trying to resolve a minor technical issue". Then we slowly proceeded to an area near the Aust Post bays - off the main taxi way, but still able to access it. Another ~20 mins, then announcement that can't resolve, going back to bay; engineer called. Arrived back at bay 10-15 mins after that.



I was surprised when the engineer arrived after abt 20-30 mins ( depending when contracted) - I thought would have had to have come from Melbourne.

Resolved after abt another 25 mins and we departed, 2 hrs late.

I guess there are very many 'technical issues' that might occur in that type of scenario - seemed to only be apparent after push back, sitting on the apron ready to taxi out.

Would they get pushed back if there was an issue they were aware of while parked, thinking they'd resolve it on the taxi out?

What sort of engineers do they have at Hobart and where might they be that is 20 odd mins away (given its a small, compact airport).

 

[RSD]

What sort of engineers do they have at Hobart and where might they be that is 20 odd mins away (given its a small, compact airport).

Lunch!

 

[AviatorInsight]

@AviatorInsight I was on VA 1533 HBA-SYD this afternoon. Boarding was odd at first as 2 guys in uniform were in the terminal as we started boarding (they then walked past us on the apron to board ahead).

I guess there are very many 'technical issues' that might occur in that type of scenario - seemed to only be apparent after push back, sitting on the apron ready to taxi out.

Would they get pushed back if there was an issue they were aware of while parked, thinking they'd resolve it on the taxi out?

What sort of engineers do they have at Hobart and where might they be that is 20 odd mins away (given it’s a small, compact airport).

Definitely sounded like paxing crew to me before boarding.

After looking into the engineering report, it seems like they didn’t get an anti ice caution light not illuminating on the system annunciator panel on the glare shield. This procedure is checked at the end of the FO’s scan. Once the recall system has been reset then we commence taxi.

Honestly, to have gone back to the bay for that is a little odd to me. They have already dispatched and could have gone under the MEL and gotten it rectified on the ground in Sydney. It had no affect on the safety because all of the associated anti ice switches continued to operate normally and just required that before take off and prior to descent, that you look up and make sure no orange lights are illuminated.

Engineers in HBA and LST aren’t on site so it will take some time before they can get out there. They are only there for the first and last flights of the day.

 

[jb747]

Honestly, to have gone back to the bay for that is a little odd to me. They have already dispatched and could have gone under the MEL and gotten it rectified on the ground in Sydney. It had no affect on the safety because all of the associated anti ice switches continued to operate normally and just required that before take off and prior to descent, that you look up and make sure no orange lights are illuminated.

I've seen issues like that where one person goes back to the gate, whilst the next is quite happy to accept it. I found MELs to be reasonably black and white, but others saw my black as white. I will admit though, that there were some MELs that I was not going to accept, generally because I'd been bitten by them at some point in my career.

 

[RSD]

I've seen issues like that where one person goes back to the gate, whilst the next is quite happy to accept it. I found MELs to be reasonably black and white, but others saw my black as white. I will admit though, that there were some MELs that I was not going to accept, generally because I'd been bitten by them at some point in my career.

Do you think that complacency is a large reason why some will accept things that others won't? Human factors training is something that is becoming a much bigger part of a sport that I participate in, and when we review fatal accidents we usually see how deeply human factors led to the accident.

 

[RooFlyer]

After looking into the engineering report, it seems like they didn’t get an anti ice caution light not illuminating on the system annunciator panel on the glare shield. This procedure is checked at the end of the FO’s scan. Once the recall system has been reset then we commence taxi.

Thanks. Can you hazard a guess what they would have been trying to do in the ~40 mins before we headed back to the gate? I guess tap the light a few times and other stuff until possibly a full system ‘reboot’ ? Seems a long time to see if a light is going to work or not.

Good to know an engineer is on the ground during the day. I guess he took 20 or so mins to arrive due to @RSD 's theory

 

[AviatorInsight]

I've seen issues like that where one person goes back to the gate, whilst the next is quite happy to accept it. I found MELs to be reasonably black and white, but others saw my black as white. I will admit though, that there were some MELs that I was not going to accept, generally because I'd been bitten by them at some point in my career.

Absolutely valid point. It’s interesting to see how people interpret MELs differently. Some take it as it is, others try and read way too much into it.

Thanks. Can you hazard a guess what they would have been trying to do in the ~40 mins before we headed back to the gate? I guess tap the light a few times and other stuff until possibly a full system ‘reboot’ ? Seems a long time to see if a light is going to work or not.

Good to know an engineer is on the ground during the day. I guess he took 20 or so mins to arrive due to @RSD 's theory

I would say they would be trying to troubleshoot the problem. Perhaps call maintenance watch and operations in BNE?

You’re right though it does seem like a long time. Thinking about it further, my next guess would be that may be they couldn’t find the MEL for the recall system and therefore they thought that they couldn’t depart?

Luckily you were at a port with an engineer, otherwise they wouldn’t be going anywhere. The lunch theory sounds very plausible.

 

[RSD]

Luckily you were at a port with an engineer, otherwise they wouldn’t be going anywhere.

That causes really major delays at DPO or BWT when a plane throws a wobbly

 

[jb747]

Do you think that complacency is a large reason why some will accept things that others won't? Human factors training is something that is becoming a much bigger part of a sport that I participate in, and when we review fatal accidents we usually see how deeply human factors led to the accident.

There are lots of reasons why an MEL might be acceptable on one day, but not another, or to one person, but not another. Two aircraft with the same issue, departing the same place, but to different destinations, could need to be treated differently. The one specific item I was thinking about related to the A380, and was itself harmless enough. But, given the right failure down the track, it led to a reversion to alternate law, and loss of all autopilots...which is a real PITA in the middle of nowhere with hours left to fly.

Thanks. Can you hazard a guess what they would have been trying to do in the ~40 mins before we headed back to the gate? I guess tap the light a few times and other stuff until possibly a full system ‘reboot’ ? Seems a long time to see if a light is going to work or not.

MELs can come with some fairly complex procedures, that need to be worked through carefully. They don't involve "tapping the light". You can be pretty certain that they weren't twiddling their thumbs in the time you were waiting.

 

[marki]

Green dot aviation for one of the biggest mysteries of mh370 ie its location. The rest we know.

 

[justinbrett]

Back on topic… and a serious question. Why can’t we land planes in fog in Australia?

Ironically not on topic for that thread...

Lack of investment in our major airports: Lack of runways, lack of gates, lack of taxiways/rapid turn offs, holding areas, ILS, poor investment in ATC.

Wrong, wrong, wrong/wrong, wrong, correct, wrong (none of those are factors except ILS).

MEL 16R has a Cat IIIB ILS. PER 21 is also Cat IIIB. RVR* for both is 75m (there is no decision height**). I'm not aware of any other Cat IIIs in Australia (SYD/CBR have Cat II which require a decision height of 100'). So it depends on the airport, runway and conditions of the fog. I'll leave it to the pilots to speak for the aircraft capabilities, but from an airport POV that's where we stand.

*RVR - Runway Visual Range - the horizontal visibility on the runway required for a landing to occur
**Decision Height - the vertical height (relative to the ground, not AMSL) before which the runway must be in sight, otherwise a missed approach is conducted.

 

[RSD]

There are lots of reasons why an MEL might be acceptable on one day, but not another, or to one person, but not another. Two aircraft with the same issue, departing the same place, but to different destinations, could need to be treated differently. The one specific item I was thinking about related to the A380, and was itself harmless enough. But, given the right failure down the track, it led to a reversion to alternate law, and loss of all autopilots...which is a real PITA in the middle of nowhere with hours left to fly.

I could see how that would be a total PITA when you are still 7 hours from destination!

 

[jb747]

Back on topic… and a serious question. Why can’t we land planes in fog in Australia?

We can. But not everywhere. Neither can Europe.

Lack of investment in our major airports: Lack of runways, lack of gates, lack of taxiways/rapid turn offs, holding areas, ILS, poor investment in ATC.

That's part of a general aviation wish list, but none (strangely including ILS) precludes landing in foggy conditions. I only need one runway for a landing, the gate has nothing to do with it, nor do rapid turn offs (which people will not use 'rapidly' in fog). There are many autoland capable ILS systems in Oz. Much of what you mention affects delays, but having extra places to wait doesn't improve the flow rate. Dubai turned into complete chaos every time the fog appeared, and it had little to do with the ability of aircraft to land.

It also comes down to training from what I've been told. MEL has the capability being Cat III and I think equivalent to LHR, but seems to be rarely used by QF, VA and JQ.

Melbourne has Cat III on one runway. London has it on multiple. Melbourne (and Sydney, etc) have crossing runways...not a decent wide spaced pair of lengthy parallels in sight. They are the same in no way at all.

As for how much it's used....well, unless it's actually called for, nobody would actually know. You have to separate autolanding, from the approach category, in your thinking. They are quite different things. You can have a manual landing off a low vis approach in aircraft like the 737. Not ideal to my thinking, but covers most need cases. There is a lot of training required to gain and keep low vis qualification, it's not just a case of knowing how to select autoland. Actually one of the worst cases we used to practice was loss of an engine, at low speed, during a low vis take off. That could have you off the runway in seconds.

And for your Cat III to be useful at all, you need decent alternates with different weather that are within reach. Not something Oz is overwhelmed with.

What would be a helpful start in Oz would be for more GPS transponders to be installed around the country, which would improve the approach capabilities at places like Albury or Wagga.

Wrong, wrong, wrong/wrong, wrong, correct, wrong (none of those are factors except ILS).

MEL 16R has a Cat IIIB ILS. PER 21 is also Cat IIIB. RVR* for both is 75m (there is no decision height**). I'm not aware of any other Cat IIIs in Australia (SYD/CBR have Cat II which require a decision height of 100'). So it depends on the airport, runway and conditions of the fog. I'll leave it to the pilots to speak for the aircraft capabilities, but from an airport POV that's where we stand.

Fog is anything less than 1,000 metres vis. Cat II will cover you in almost all cases. But, the drawback to Cat II vs Cat III is that the approach lighting requirements for II are double that of III, making installation very difficult in many places. Imagine 700 metres of lighting towers stuck out into Botany Bay! Additionally, there are requirements regarding the approach terrain, that relate to radar altitude behaviour, which makes places with uneven terrain problematic.

Of course, if we could miraculously build a bunch of airports with equally long, wide spaced, parallel runways, in reasonably level areas, not near any hills, which are not surrounded by NIMBYS, and for which the policians haven't imposed arbitrary restrictions, then we might be part way to solving any issues. Of course they'd all have to be so far from the city they're supporting that you'd be better off driving, but that's Oz.

 

[mjt57]

Interesting topical topic, fog. We’re going PER-MEL shortly. Hope all is good back over in the East.

 

[Quickstatus]

Hope all is good back over in the East

You wont need to worry about fog. Any fog will be blown away by storms later today