Ask The Pilot

  • Thread starter Thread starter NM
  • Start date Start date
  • Featured
It was actually really good. Day one was a killer to get to CNS though (SYD BNE PPP BNE CNS). The trip to HND itself was really good. Really took me back to my long haul days and using CPDLC (datalink - a text messaging service with ATC) again.

The way up was quite uneventful and at 7hrs 35mins block it actually went quite fast being a day trip and we arrived early to gate 140 at terminal 3. The arrival is very busy and they actually descended us quite early (about 10mins early). As we got closer to intercepting the ILS speed control was the name of the game. ATC were absolutely on to anyone not doing the speed they needed and we were back at minimum approach speed at about 3000ft. Almost reminded me of the movie Pushing Tin.

I made the most of my 24hrs off here and took in the sights of downtown Tokyo. I was there in May for a holiday and loved being back. Japan is one of my favourite countries.

Arriving back at the airport the following night and back to gate 140, we pushed back and clogged the alleyway thanks to the LEAP-1B engines taking almost 2mins to start each engine. The taxi out to runway 05 took about 25mins and after briefing the convoluted departure it got cancelled as we approached the runway and just got a heading to maintain after we got airborne.

About an hour into the flight we passed a few storms thanks to the tail end of Hurricane JEBI, who we managed to stay clear of on the way up. The route then took us straight over GUM (we were crossing with QF60 up until that point) and were actually on VHF with the Americans for another hour keeping me awake.

It wasn’t until we hit the PNG coastline where we encountered a wall of thunderstorms almost the entire length of the country and spotted a comet when we turned to take 300nm off course to avoid! Luckily we took full tanks back to CNS.

To be honest, I actually really love flying the MAX it is much more stable, quieter, and rides turbulence better than the NG. The software comes with a few extra bells and whistles which I’m getting used to and it lands so much easier as well.

I’ve only had 2 days off and now heading up to BNE tomorrow for some upper air recovery procedures in the MAX sim. The focus on this one is having the airspeed unreliable at different phases of flight. This comes around every 2-3years and is in addition to our cyclic. It just helps with upset recoveries (stalls and unusual attitudes) and we do it in the MAX sim because it is capable of doing the manoeuvres with the motion still on (unlike the NG sim).
Thanks for that; I found it quite informative.👍
1727991817256.png
 
So do you select a waypoint out in that area you wish to divert off track to? Or do you just fly a heading until you are comfortable turning back in the right direction?
 
So do you select a waypoint out in that area you wish to divert off track to? Or do you just fly a heading until you are comfortable turning back in the right direction?
We will select a number of miles to start with when going off the route. Then once we’re happy to come back we can either request a waypoint to track to or ATC will give us one. In the second diversion we were 300nm off the route. To then come back onto the flight plan route would cost us more time and fuel. So, we asked Moresby ATC to track to POM then to the last waypoint on the flight plan before the approach. That was approved.
 
It was actually really good. Day one was a killer to get to CNS though (SYD BNE PPP BNE CNS). The trip to HND itself was really good. Really took me back to my long haul days and using CPDLC (datalink - a text messaging service with ATC) again.

The way up was quite uneventful and at 7hrs 35mins block it actually went quite fast being a day trip and we arrived early to gate 140 at terminal 3. The arrival is very busy and they actually descended us quite early (about 10mins early). As we got closer to intercepting the ILS speed control was the name of the game. ATC were absolutely on to anyone not doing the speed they needed and we were back at minimum approach speed at about 3000ft. Almost reminded me of the movie Pushing Tin.

I made the most of my 24hrs off here and took in the sights of downtown Tokyo. I was there in May for a holiday and loved being back. Japan is one of my favourite countries.

Arriving back at the airport the following night and back to gate 140, we pushed back and clogged the alleyway thanks to the LEAP-1B engines taking almost 2mins to start each engine. The taxi out to runway 05 took about 25mins and after briefing the convoluted departure it got cancelled as we approached the runway and just got a heading to maintain after we got airborne.

About an hour into the flight we passed a few storms thanks to the tail end of Hurricane JEBI, who we managed to stay clear of on the way up. The route then took us straight over GUM (we were crossing with QF60 up until that point) and were actually on VHF with the Americans for another hour keeping me awake.

It wasn’t until we hit the PNG coastline where we encountered a wall of thunderstorms almost the entire length of the country and spotted a comet when we turned to take 300nm off course to avoid! Luckily we took full tanks back to CNS.

To be honest, I actually really love flying the MAX it is much more stable, quieter, and rides turbulence better than the NG. The software comes with a few extra bells and whistles which I’m getting used to and it lands so much easier as well.

I’ve only had 2 days off and now heading up to BNE tomorrow for some upper air recovery procedures in the MAX sim. The focus on this one is having the airspeed unreliable at different phases of flight. This comes around every 2-3years and is in addition to our cyclic. It just helps with upset recoveries (stalls and unusual attitudes) and we do it in the MAX sim because it is capable of doing the manoeuvres with the motion still on (unlike the NG sim).
Thank you for that information @AviatorInsight. Are you looking to fly that route again?

(as I'm flying BNE/CNS/HND on 9 January and HND/CNS/BNE on 19th/20th January). Would be fun to know one of the pilots.
 
Are you looking to fly that route again?

(as I'm flying BNE/CNS/HND on 9 January and HND/CNS/BNE on 19th/20th January). Would be fun to know one of the pilots.
I’ll be on leave for most of January unfortunately. I’ve got nothing this month to HND but might see if there’s another one for me in Nov.

I have a feeling it’s getting competitive now that they’ve decided to close the route and people are opting in to fly it.
 
It was actually really good. Day one was a killer to get to CNS though (SYD BNE PPP BNE CNS). The trip to HND itself was really good. Really took me back to my long haul days and using CPDLC (datalink - a text messaging service with ATC) again.

The way up was quite uneventful and at 7hrs 35mins block it actually went quite fast being a day trip and we arrived early to gate 140 at terminal 3. The arrival is very busy and they actually descended us quite early (about 10mins early). As we got closer to intercepting the ILS speed control was the name of the game. ATC were absolutely on to anyone not doing the speed they needed and we were back at minimum approach speed at about 3000ft. Almost reminded me of the movie Pushing Tin.

I made the most of my 24hrs off here and took in the sights of downtown Tokyo. I was there in May for a holiday and loved being back. Japan is one of my favourite countries.

Arriving back at the airport the following night and back to gate 140, we pushed back and clogged the alleyway thanks to the LEAP-1B engines taking almost 2mins to start each engine. The taxi out to runway 05 took about 25mins and after briefing the convoluted departure it got cancelled as we approached the runway and just got a heading to maintain after we got airborne.

About an hour into the flight we passed a few storms thanks to the tail end of Hurricane JEBI, who we managed to stay clear of on the way up. The route then took us straight over GUM (we were crossing with QF60 up until that point) and were actually on VHF with the Americans for another hour keeping me awake.

It wasn’t until we hit the PNG coastline where we encountered a wall of thunderstorms almost the entire length of the country and spotted a comet when we turned to take 300nm off course to avoid! Luckily we took full tanks back to CNS.

To be honest, I actually really love flying the MAX it is much more stable, quieter, and rides turbulence better than the NG. The software comes with a few extra bells and whistles which I’m getting used to and it lands so much easier as well.

I’ve only had 2 days off and now heading up to BNE tomorrow for some upper air recovery procedures in the MAX sim. The focus on this one is having the airspeed unreliable at different phases of flight. This comes around every 2-3years and is in addition to our cyclic. It just helps with upset recoveries (stalls and unusual attitudes) and we do it in the MAX sim because it is capable of doing the manoeuvres with the motion still on (unlike the NG sim).
Does VA run with 3 Tech Crew for the CNS-HND-CNS run? If they have 3 Tech Crew I wasn’t aware there were SO’s on the 73’s or do they have 1 * Capt + 2 * FO’s? Alternatively for 2 Tech Crew do they have periods of controlled rest?
 
Does VA run with 3 Tech Crew for the CNS-HND-CNS run? If they have 3 Tech Crew I wasn’t aware there were SO’s on the 73’s or do they have 1 * Capt + 2 * FO’s? Alternatively for 2 Tech Crew do they have periods of controlled rest?
It would make sense for 3 but no, it’s all done 2 crew. So we manage our fatigue with periods of controlled rest.
 
Australia's highest-earning Velocity Frequent Flyer credit card: Offer expires: 21 Jan 2025
- Earn 60,000 bonus Velocity Points
- Get unlimited Virgin Australia Lounge access
- Enjoy a complimentary return Virgin Australia domestic flight each year

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

It would make sense for 3 but no, it’s all done 2 crew. So we manage our fatigue with periods of controlled rest.
Interesting. Over the years i’ve done a bunch of Sydney - Singapore - Sydney and saw a mix of 2 Tech crew vs 3 Tech Crew on A330’s and wondered what decisions drove the choice. I must admit i never understood how controlled rest works.
 
Interesting. Over the years i’ve done a bunch of Sydney - Singapore - Sydney and saw a mix of 2 Tech crew vs 3 Tech Crew on A330’s and wondered what decisions drove the choice. I must admit i never understood how controlled rest works.
Money would be a big driver for only having minimum crew. The maximum we could do in a single duty is 10.5hrs of flying with 2 crew.

Controlled rest works by one pilot effectively napping (not sleeping) for a maximum of 20-30mins at a time. Any more and you go into sleep inertia and wake up feeling worse than you did before you had your little sleep. It’s also part of the reason the cabin crew should be contacting the flight deck every 30mins to make sure the other pilot hasn’t also fallen asleep.

Usually one round of controlled rest is enough to get me through a red eye. I see it as a top up of sleep credits as I try and get at least 3-4hrs of sleep before the red eye.
 
Interesting. Over the years i’ve done a bunch of Sydney - Singapore - Sydney and saw a mix of 2 Tech crew vs 3 Tech Crew on A330’s and wondered what decisions drove the choice. I must admit i never understood how controlled rest works.
Where there is only one service involved, it's pretty straightforward. It becomes much more complicated when you've got many longer flights, spread over a week or so. The old QF 767 and A330 services around Asia are good examples. The obvious need for the third pilot comes up when any duty, or individual sector, exceeds the CASA time limits. But, they can become more complicated depending upon what duty has been done in previous days, or might be planned in the following. For instance the time limits for a 7 day period vary depending up whether it has been done two man, or with a heavy crew. And these limitations apply to each pilot, and so whatever they were doing in the time before a particular pattern can affect the need for an extra man. I recall taking the SO from Hawaii to Vancouver because I'd done a standby a day or so prior, that had pushed up my planned hours by 3 or so. That then meant that I'd very tight for the Vancouver return. My boss wasn't happy, but as it happened we lost a bit of time, and really did need him. Of course the SO had packed for Hawaii not Canada.

There are sometimes operational reasons too. There was a time when the 767-200s and 300s were doing the flight from Brisbane to Singapore. This was done under a set of rules that allowed it to be planned 30 minutes beyond the normal limit for a two man crew. But, the offset in the CASA ruling was that no extensions were allowed. The upshot of this was that if this flight diverted, then the crew would never have enough time to continue the trip, even if it was just from KL. So, to counter this, the company planned the -300s with additional fuel (about an hour I think). But, the -200s often didn't have the weight available to carry this extra. So, the solution ended up with 200s being 3 man, as that meant they could recover from any diversion.
 
How much extra available time did an extra pilot provide
The flight was planned at something like 8:20. The limit under the "opspec" was 8:30, but with no extension. The normal limits would have allowed 2 man to 8 hours, but with an extension possible to 9 hours (at the crew's discretion, not the company). The third pilot took it to 11 hours flight time, extendable to 12. And the duty period went out to 14 hours. I used to keep a flow chart of all of these rules.
 
pre Covid was on QF5 A330-3xx from Sydney to Singapore. 2 tech crew. pushed back and had an asymmetric issue on flap extension. Came back to the gate. Passengers offloaded. Aircraft subbed out for a A330-2xx with a different 3 tech crew with a 3hr delay… All good but the Captain on the original flight was a little more than pi$$ed as it knocked out his roster for the next week or so..
 
I just watched a Finnair ATR72 reverse out of its own gate parking space at TLL. It wasn't being pushed back by a tug - I assume it was using reverse thrust as the engines were making quite some noise.

I'm wondering if there's something special about the ATR72 that makes it possible for it to reverse out of its parking space, while other aircraft types can't? And indeed, are there any other plane types that can do this (e.g. could a Dash 8)?
 
I just watched a Finnair ATR72 reverse out of its own gate parking space at TLL. It wasn't being pushed back by a tug - I assume it was using reverse thrust as the engines were making quite some noise.

I'm wondering if there's something special about the ATR72 that makes it possible for it to reverse out of its parking space, while other aircraft types can't? And indeed, are there any other plane types that can do this (e.g. could a Dash 8)?

It’s called a powerback.

Most aircraft can physically do them (it’s just reverse thrust), but for most it’s a bad idea due to FOD etc. It’s more feasible with over wing or tail engines. 717/MD80 is a good example.

It’s noisy and uses a lot of fuel so they’re very rare these days (it was more common in the 80s). I recall there’s at least one major airport in the Caribbean where aircraft have to powerback into position for takeoff as there isn’t enough room to do anything else.
 
I just watched a Finnair ATR72 reverse out of its own gate parking space at TLL. It wasn't being pushed back by a tug - I assume it was using reverse thrust as the engines were making quite some noise.

I'm wondering if there's something special about the ATR72 that makes it possible for it to reverse out of its parking space, while other aircraft types can't? And indeed, are there any other plane types that can do this (e.g. could a Dash 8)?
Nothing too special about the ATR specifically, I actually tried it in the Saab when another aircraft parked off their line and there wasn’t enough room to power out.

The thing here is not to use the brakes to stop but you’ll need to come out of Beta range (reverse) and power forward. Otherwise you risk putting the aircraft on its tail.
 
Way back when I first joined QF, I did some research on reverse thrust. The upshot was that the big turbo fan engines produce far less of it than people expect. On a large engine, the vast majority of the thrust is produced by the fan, with the core of the engine (the bit that burns the fuel) producing only about 20%, but of course ultimately producing all of the power, by driving the fan.

When you go into ‘reverse’, nothing actually starts going the other way, nor does the blade pitch change to a negative angle. All that happens is that the air flow is redirected, by various forms of blocker doors. This flow from the fan is largely blown sideways, with a small component in a forward direction. At the same time, the core is being spooled up, to drive this flow to the maximum. But, as the core exhaust is not blocked at all, you end up with the fan pushing one way, and the core pushing the other. As such they cancel each other out. I don’t recall the exact numbers that we came up with now, but I think the overall effect was reverse being worth about 10,000 lbs of thrust on a 747’s P&W engines. Drag from the wheels alone (without any braking) was of a similar amount.

So, reverse does very little reversing. But, it does offer other benefits. As sadly proven by QF1, it blasts water off the runway, giving the tyres a chance to grip. It disrupts the airflow over the wings, reducing lift, and helping the aircraft sit all of its weight down. And the disrupted airflows themselves produce drag. Interestingly though, Airbus actually planned to produce the A380 without reverse at all, and in the end only did so on the inner engines.

Older jet aircraft that are capable of these ‘powerbacks’ have a reverse style that also blocks the core of the engine. Newer aircraft that can do it have been designed with it in mind (for instance the C17 and perhaps the Viggen). Given that most people can’t back a car, it doesn’t seem like all that good an idea.
 

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top