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I'm not a pilot but to be honest it's not a big deal. Keep in mind in Canada, 18 wheeler trucks will roll over ice bridges (or as you call it "solid water") all the time, as that's how you reach communities up north in the winter:
True, but I was thinking less about the load bearing of the surface but more about whether an aircraft "hull" is suitable for landing on snow, especially if the surface has hidden rocks.
 
Anyone know what happened with DL8259 (codeshare on AF) yesterday (16th Oct) from OPO to CDG? Flight never climbed above 24,000 and diverted to BDX. Friend was onboard and they were told what happened. She says something suspected to be wrong with the coughpit window affecting pressurisation.

I was in the very last row. Also took off late bc the incoming flight had someone on a stretcher and had issues offloading them. But I ended up sitting across from the giant metal stretcher.

20 min into the flight captain comes on and has everyone sit down and buckle in - flight attendants included. Can barely understand him even in English bc of the heavy accent.

Flight attendants start getting antsy. Speaking in French (no clue what), not allowing anyone to move. This lady came back to potty and they made her sit in the open seat next to the stretcher and buckle up. Wouldn’t let her pee or go back to sit with her husband. She and I are now trauma bonded. We cried out of sheer stress when we landed safely.

I put some smell good lotion on and they freaked out wondering where it came from. I told them and she even smelled my hands to make sure it was the right scent.

All the sudden the attendant stand up and start almost running down the aisle telling everyone to tighten their seat belts and start handing the passengers in the emergency exit rows pillows.

They sit back down and buckle in their 5 point harnesses and the lady I could see behind me was basically bracing herself under her legs with her hands and tapping her foot super nervously.

Absolutely terrifying.

We landed safely. Technical support people came out, fixed the window - and fixed the bathroom door, bc it kept falling off when someone opened it 😂. And we left. And everything was fine. Like it never happened.
 
Anyone know what happened with DL8259 (codeshare on AF) yesterday (16th Oct) from OPO to CDG?
Are you sure about that flight number? According to FR24, that ties to AF7320, which is a Paris to Nice flight, and didn't happen on the 16th.
Flight never climbed above 24,000 and diverted to BDX. Friend was onboard and they were told what happened. She says something suspected to be wrong with the coughpit window affecting pressurisation.
First thought would be that a window cracked. There are multiple layers to coughpit windows, and cracking of the outer layer is a non event. But, any cracking of an inner layer can compromise the window's strength. Issues with the window heating can lead to this.

None of this explains the cabin reaction...
 
QF142 AKL - SYD (18/10) took a more northerly route. Would this be indicating a MEL or something similar that required a longer route to stay within ETOPs limits?
Non-ETOPS is one hour of flight time, and it does look like that flight path would given them that using Norfolk Island. Previous flights of the same aircraft have had normal tracks. U/S APU perhaps?
 
Are you sure about that flight number? According to FR24, that ties to AF7320, which is a Paris to Nice flight, and didn't happen on the 16th.

First thought would be that a window cracked. There are multiple layers to coughpit windows, and cracking of the outer layer is a non event. But, any cracking of an inner layer can compromise the window's strength. Issues with the window heating can lead to this.

None of this explains the cabin reaction...

Can confirm
1729211388136.png

Looks like it was this AF1429 (AFR1429) Air France Flight Tracking and History 16-Oct-2024 (OPO / LPPR-CDG / LFPG) - FlightAware DL8259 - Delta Air Lines DL 8259 Flight Tracker

My understanding is if it was an inner layer they wouldn't have taken off again. They were on the ground for about an hour. I don't believe that would have been sufficient time to change windows, correct?
 
My understanding is if it was an inner layer they wouldn't have taken off again. They were on the ground for about an hour. I don't believe that would have been sufficient time to change windows, correct?
I don't have the MEL available, so I can't say whether you'd even be able to get relief for a cracked outer pane. Any inner would definitely be a no go.

No work would have been done in an hour, but obviously it could be given a proper going over, which is somewhat difficult in the cruise. Replacing a windscreen takes an appreciable amount of time. If I recall correctly, there's a sealant that needs to cure for 24 hours or so, after completion of the nuts and bolts bit of the job.
 
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Those who were at the AFF dinner last night heard some interesting stories from our guest speaker whose username is 'Buckshot10'

Welcome to 'Buckshot10'

We look forward to some interesting Q & A interactions.
Yes, indeed, a very warm welcome to @Buckshot10. It would have been interesting to add up the flight hours, number of aircraft types flown (some overlap there of course) and years of military service sitting at your table at AFF#17 dinner last night.
 
Yes, indeed, a very warm welcome to @Buckshot10. It would have been interesting to add up the flight hours, number of aircraft types flown (some overlap there of course) and years of military service sitting at your table at AFF#17 dinner last night.
Approximately 28,000 hours for three of us.

If my memory is correct:
Buckshot10. Approx 4500 hrs
Falcon39. Approx 6500hrs &
I have approximately 17,000hrs.
 
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Maybe not the most relevant thread for this, but I think it may be of general interest and may result in some comments from pilots:
 
I suspect that the end of Pan Am had less to do with the 747 than it did with management, and their decisions. In my time, they were never held in much regard.
 
I suspect that the end of Pan Am had less to do with the 747 than it did with management, and their decisions. In my time, they were never held in much regard.
Likewise by their employees. My wife worked at La Guardia working the Pan Am Shuttle (NY-DC-Boston I think it was). The job itself was great, she said, including the ID90 discount perks. But management, even down at her level, left a lot to be desired.
 
JB, question re crew ranks.

Just got home from Europe, this time with Emirates (love the 380). Anyway, FCO-DXB had just two pilots. But the DXB-MEL trip had 4. a captain and senior FO x two for relief the starting captain said.

Firstly, what's a "senior FO" compared to any other pilot ranks? Do they have 3 and a half stripes or something???

Second, why that crew arrangement compared to your time with SOs helping out?

Ps. Still can't get over the precision that those guys operate with. Down through cloud from before Bendigo til about 2,000ft, cleared it and there was the runway. However, the cabin was quiet as a library....
 
JB, question re crew ranks.

Just got home from Europe, this time with Emirates (love the 380). Anyway, FCO-DXB had just two pilots. But the DXB-MEL trip had 4. a captain and senior FO x two for relief the starting captain said.

Firstly, what's a "senior FO" compared to any other pilot ranks? Do they have 3 and a half stripes or something???
It's whatever the airline feels like calling it. Most don't have SOs, but they have new pilots who are immediately FOs. But, you'd never dream of leaving them by themselves, and they are very restricted in what they're allowed to do. QF's long haul FOs all needed to have a command endorsement for the aircraft on their licence, and that then let the company put them in charge whilst the Captain had a sleep. My guess is their senior FOs would have ticked the same sort of box with their regulator. There is no uniform differentiation. Other airlines have 'cruise Captains' who fill the same sort of role.

QF did have a rank called a Senior SO, and they had a half stripe. Basically they'd completed all of the training required to be FOs, but hadn't actually been given an SO slot. They were allowed to do takeoffs and landings as per an FO, but would never be rostered without a 3 striper as well. It was basically a way of having trained people on the books without having to pay them the full dollar. I only ever did one trip as an SSO, and then the captain spent most of the time lecturing me because I didn't have the half stripe on my uniform.
Second, why that crew arrangement compared to your time with SOs helping out?
Not all airlines have SOs. QF is probably unusual in the way they do it, but it does work quite well.
Still can't get over the precision that those guys operate with. Down through cloud from before Bendigo til about 2,000ft, cleared it and there was the runway. However, the cabin was quiet as a library....
And sometimes you don't see the runway until it's only a few feet away.
 
Not all airlines have SOs. QF is probably unusual in the way they do it, but it does work quite well.
A while back I met a very enthusiastic SO and we had a chat on the flight. His descriptions of the 747-400's quirks, like increased thrust pushing the nose up due to the low centre line of the engines, as well as the ground effect on the tail plane during rotation and landing have stuck with me to this day. I think he was quite new and was keen to talk to anyone who knew less than he did.

What would the minimum qualification generally be for SOs?
 
A while back I met a very enthusiastic SO and we had a chat on the flight. His descriptions of the 747-400's quirks, like increased thrust pushing the nose up due to the low centre line of the engines, as well as the ground effect on the tail plane during rotation and landing have stuck with me to this day.
Actually the 400 pitch effects were more gentle than those of the 200/300, especially the rotation effect. If you wanted to see pitch couple, then the 767 was the aircraft to fly.
I think he was quite new and was keen to talk to anyone who knew less than he did.
I'm sure the system bashed that out of him.
What would the minimum qualification generally be for SOs?
When I joined it was 1,000 hours, but they weren't all that hard on it. I'm not sure what it is now, but I think we've had cadets with around 200 total hours. Bear in mind that SOs aren't even allowed in one of the front seats below 20,000 feet, so their total time doesn't matter all that much. They'll have plenty by the time they get a front seat. Again, back in my day, SOs were given much more opportunity to fly, with no arbitrary altitude limits.
 
AV, I was on a 737 MAX recently, non Australian carrier, and while exiting the runway, I noted one spoiler, the only closest to the wingtip, remained up for 10 seconds after the others went down.

Any idea why this one lone spoiler decided to remain up?

Is there a coughpit indicator that would tell you one is still ‘up’?
 
What would the minimum qualification generally be for SOs?

Straight from the Careers website - either 500hrs pilot in command time, or 250hrs PIC and then 500hrs rotary wing time (very rare for this to be used), or 70hrs command and up to 1500hrs F/O time on a multi-crew airliner like a Q400.

Plus ATPL or subjects and MEIR. Once upon a time they also had requirements for Yr 12 Maths, English and sometimes Physics but not anymore.

The average these days has mostly come from other multi crew jobs flying either turboprops like Saab340 or Q400 or smaller jets like the Embraer 190 or F100. Also spending less time in the S/O role compared to years past as there’s promotion available to F/O pretty much straight away if the recruit chooses such.


Bear in mind that SOs aren't even allowed in one of the front seats below 20,000 feet, so their total time doesn't matter all that much. They'll have plenty by the time they get a front seat.

These days recruits are being promoted to F/O in some bases from day one, and in all bases within about 12 months. You’re only going to be in an S/O role for a long period of time if you choose to be.
 
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AV, I was on a 737 MAX recently, non Australian carrier, and while exiting the runway, I noted one spoiler, the only closest to the wingtip, remained up for 10 seconds after the others went down.

Any idea why this one lone spoiler decided to remain up?

Is there a coughpit indicator that would tell you one is still ‘up’?
I honestly don't know about that. I haven't heard anything like that happening before. The spoilers on the ends (closest to the fuselage and outboard near the ailerons) are the ground spoilers. After landing, the captain initiates the scan for the FO by retracting the speedbrakes. We don't have any idea of the individual panels, only if they are extended against thrust above a certain lever angle, and if they are armed.

I haven't done much paxing on the MAX but will keep an eye out. The spoilers on the MAX are also fly by wire now (sort of).
 
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