ATO (tax office) payments by credit card

[amaroo]

In your opinion. I, in the other hand, do not call AFF members dishonest.

A dishonest act/transaction isn't reduced because you're a member of an Internet forum.

 

[amaroo]

And once again, overpayment of tax is not illegal, indeed the tax laws specifically allow it. I realise you think this is not legitimate but tax law doesn't.

Deliberate over payment to gain financial benefit is very different to an honest calculation error.

 

[Flashback]

Deliberate over payment to gain financial benefit is very different to an honest calculation error.

I'm not sure how paying a c/c surcharge is considered to be a financial benefit. If anything it's a financial loss. Sure, the points you get from it are a benefit .. but it's not financial.

 

[amaroo]

I'm not sure how paying a c/c surcharge is considered to be a financial benefit. If anything it's a financial loss. Sure, the points you get from it are a benefit .. but it's not financial.

What other reason would you go thru the drama of deliberately falsifying a tax payment and paying a CC surcharge?

 

[burmans]

I'm enormously confused now. How does paying the ATO more tax and getting a refund have much to do with tax law at all?

Sorry, but do you have a reason to send money to the tax department other than because tax law requires it?

if the answer to this is no (and can't imagine why it would be) then the "rules" for overpaying tax and gaining refunds are totally defined by tax law, what are you suggesting they are defined by, uninformed opinion?

 

[Caversham04]

Checked today - a tax bill of ~$500 via the standard AMEX Velocity Escape card has earned 1 pt per $1, which I'm very happy with, given that there's no annual fee

 

[Jack_OC]

Checked today - a tax bill of ~$500 via the standard AMEX Velocity Escape card has earned 1 pt per $1, which I'm very happy with, given that there's no annual fee

Depending on the extent of your spending, you might find the annual fee for a Westpac Altitude Black (for example) is more than justified.

With the Velocity Escape it's costing you 1.45c per pt when you pay ATO bills (ignoring tax deduction if applicable). If you're happy paying that, presumably you'd be happy if the cost of the additional points that come with Altitude Black also cost 1.45c?

If you paid the full annual fee of $395, and spent a total of $56k per year on Amex, you'd earn 28,000 more points with Altitude Black compared to Velocity Escape. That's an incremental cost of 1.4c per pt. Just to stress that this refers to total annual spend of $56k, not just ATO bills. If you spend more than that, obviously the incremental cost of the additional points comes down - eg 0.8c per pt with an annual spend of $100k.

Perhaps more importantly, your total points haul would be 50% higher. There are some other benefits of Altitude Black too, plus as far as I can tell few people pay the full fee (I pay $195).

 

[Beta4Me]

Checked today - a tax bill of ~$500 via the standard AMEX Velocity Escape card has earned 1 pt per $1, which I'm very happy with, given that there's no annual fee

I find it more interesting than it wasn't 0.5ppd. No?

 

[Jack_OC]

I find it more interesting than it wasn't 0.5ppd. No?

By my reading of the T&Cs 1 pt per $ is correct. The Velocity Amex Escape card seems to earn either 2 pts per $ (with VA), 1 pt per $ (all other eligible transactions) or 0 pts (ineligible transactions).

 

[burmans]

Deliberate over payment to gain financial benefit is very different to an honest calculation error.

Personally I agree with you but tax disputes are handled under the law (I'm 100% confident if this was ever before the court they would adjudicate on this based on the law rather than either of our opinions), perhaps to demonstrate your opinion you can point to where the law differentiates these.

 

[Caversham04]

I find it more interesting than it wasn't 0.5ppd. No?

Definitely $1 = 1 pt; confirmed by the handy online breakdown of points awarded for each individual transaction

 

[Caversham04]

Depending on the extent of your spending, you might find the annual fee for a Westpac Altitude Black (for example) is more than justified.

With the Velocity Escape it's costing you 1.45c per pt when you pay ATO bills (ignoring tax deduction if applicable). If you're happy paying that, presumably you'd be happy if the cost of the additional points that come with Altitude Black also cost 1.45c?

If you paid the full annual fee of $395, and spent a total of $56k per year on Amex, you'd earn 28,000 more points with Altitude Black compared to Velocity Escape. That's an incremental cost of 1.4c per pt. Just to stress that this refers to total annual spend of $56k, not just ATO bills. If you spend more than that, obviously the incremental cost of the additional points comes down - eg 0.8c per pt with an annual spend of $100k.

Perhaps more importantly, your total points haul would be 50% higher. There are some other benefits of Altitude Black too, plus as far as I can tell few people pay the full fee (I pay $195).

Thanks for the tip; I'll certainly look into it, although I'm also saving QFF points for a major trip once my long-service leave kicks in, so my spend is spread around between various cards.

I'm fairly certain that my Velocity points will be used for a SYD-LAX return in J for a scuba-diving trip; this costs around $5600 for a pair of random dates later in 2014. Alternatively, it would cost 94,000 points each way (plus a small payment) - at 1.45c / pt, that works out at $2700-ish, which at half-price isn't too bad (in my personal book). In practice, of course, most of my Amex usage is for everyday spend without a credit card surcharge (so the points are effectively free), and paying the occasional surcharge which (at worst) results in my J flight being about half the cash price works for me. I'm sure others may disagree, and any additional suggestions to go with the feedback on Altitude Black would be appreciated if I'm being fundamentally inefficient / insufficiently cunning

 

[Gareth]

Running bit late with final payment - is the website down?

https://www.optussmartpay.com/governmenteasypay-ato/

 

[amaroo]

Personally I agree with you but tax disputes are handled under the law (I'm 100% confident if this was ever before the court they would adjudicate on this based on the law rather than either of our opinions), perhaps to demonstrate your opinion you can point to where the law differentiates these.

No need for a court to get involved. If they get swamped with deliberate over payment "gaming" all they need to do is amend their payment methods.

People can continue to overpay until the cows come home....

 

[burmans]

No need for a court to get involved. If they get swamped with deliberate over payment "gaming" all they need to do is amend their payment methods.

I'd agree that is possible but all indications are in fact that the ATO are very happy with cards as a payment method, they've in fact moved it to one of the "preferred" methods of payment.

Here's the link, this was put in place 18th November 2013, making BPAY/CC the preferred payment methods

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Payments-to-ATO/How-to-pay/

 

[Jack_OC]

Thanks for the tip; I'll certainly look into it, although I'm also saving QFF points for a major trip once my long-service leave kicks in, so my spend is spread around between various cards.

I'm fairly certain that my Velocity points will be used for a SYD-LAX return in J for a scuba-diving trip; this costs around $5600 for a pair of random dates later in 2014. Alternatively, it would cost 94,000 points each way (plus a small payment) - at 1.45c / pt, that works out at $2700-ish, which at half-price isn't too bad (in my personal book). In practice, of course, most of my Amex usage is for everyday spend without a credit card surcharge (so the points are effectively free), and paying the occasional surcharge which (at worst) results in my J flight being about half the cash price works for me. I'm sure others may disagree, and any additional suggestions to go with the feedback on Altitude Black would be appreciated if I'm being fundamentally inefficient / insufficiently cunning

You're absolutely right, getting a J fare half price is not bad at all. However, I think you can do better!

You're also correct that points in most cases with the Velocity Escape card are free, but I had already factored that in to my calculations above. That's why I referred to the incremental cost for the additional 0.5 pts per $ that you get with Altitude Black, rather than the cost based on the total earn of 1.5 pts per $.

To look at it another way, based on the cost per point earned overall: if you take an annual spend of $94k as an example (the amount you'd have to spend on Velocity Escape to get 94,000 points for a J reward to LA), you'd earn 141,000 points with Altitude Black, at an overall cost of just 0.28c per point (excluding surcharges, but the surcharges would be the same with either card). Would you pay $395 for an extra 47,000 points? I know I would - since as you have illustrated yourself, that's equivalent to half a J trip to LA, which is worth $2,800! But as I said at the start, it depends on your spending level - obviously if it takes you 2 years to spend $94k, then the cost doubles, and so on.

 

[legroom]

You're absolutely right, getting a J fare half price is not bad at all. However, I think you can do better!

You're also correct that points in most cases with the Velocity Escape card are free, but I had already factored that in to my calculations above. That's why I referred to the incremental cost for the additional 0.5 pts per $ that you get with Altitude Black, rather than the cost based on the total earn of 1.5 pts per $.

To look at it another way, based on the cost per point earned overall: if you take an annual spend of $94k as an example (the amount you'd have to spend on Velocity Escape to get 94,000 points for a J reward to LA), you'd earn 141,000 points with Altitude Black, at an overall cost of just 0.28c per point (excluding surcharges, but the surcharges would be the same with either card). Would you pay $395 for an extra 47,000 points? I know I would - since as you have illustrated yourself, that's equivalent to half a J trip to LA, which is worth $2,800! But as I said at the start, it depends on your spending level - obviously if it takes you 2 years to spend $94k, then the cost doubles, and so on.

Some people here is just too literate and numerate - to everyone's benefits !

Cheers to my honorary accountant

 

[burnt]

From someone who knows, one way the card companies could shut this down is by saying no points on ATO payments, just as Citibank did on MOST of their cards ( but not Citiselect) or by only offering a smaller number of points per $ as Amex has done with many AMEX issued cards ( as distinct from bank issued Amex cards)

OR The other way to close it down would be for the ATO to make the refund to your card ( reversing the points out)

However, if you do accidentally make an overpayment, ensure that amount is less than 10K and that your online request through your Auskey is also less than 9999 and you will be fine, about a week turnaround from paying to back in your tin.

 

[Beta4Me]

From someone who knows, one way the card companies could shut this down is by saying no points on ATO payments, just as Citibank did on MOST of their cards ( but not Citiselect)

No, the Select (Citirewards version) DOES NOT still give points on ATO spend. I have no idea about the QF version though.

 

[burnt]

I have a Citiselect Visa with direct earn to QF and I do earn 1:1 with it (guaranteed)