Australia to Reduce Incoming Int. Passenger Capacity from July 2021

[roogirl]

But it's more than that Non-residents are free to come and go, multiple times. Just because an Aussie happens to live overseas, why are they permitted freedoms Aussies resident here don't have? If we have to apply for an exemption to visit family overseas, why isn't there a similar scheme for inbound visits? Those coming home permanently should be given a permit automatically.

It’s laziness. It’s much easier to just ban outbound than it is to be thoughtful about who to let out. And it’s much easier to let everyone in than be thoughtful about that (you can’t ban everyone inbound or people become stateless etc - not a good look).

that’s my primary complaint with all of this. It’s just all so lazy. Can’t be bothered thinking about a plan, can’t be bothered getting on top of federal quarantine, can’t be bothered thinking about a workable compassionate exemption policy. Lazy and contemptuous of the people they are meant to serve.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Non-residents are free to come and go, multiple times.

That's another piece of utter rubbish that gets bandied around by the fear and loathing brigade, led by Anna, Mark and Dan.

Those without permanent residency can only come if they have a visa AND they are in one of the special categories. Most have to apply for an exemption as well as a visa.

The numbers of visitors arriving are negligible (6,000-8,000 per month Oct 20-Mar 21). Compare that with between 8,000-14,000 resident returnees in the same period.

I haven't seen any numbers about multiple time short term visitors, but McGowan's own stats indicated multiple returnees were only 3.7% of total returnees, and I can't see any reason to believe short term multiple visit visitors are a tidal wave either.

Cheers skip

PS I left off April below because the stats don't differentiate pre bubble and post bubble arrivals, and April onwards is largely bubble people.

Visitor arrivals	'000	Resident returns	'000
Oct-20	6.07	Oct-20	11.17
Nov-20	7.57	Nov-20	13
Dec-20	8.82	Dec-20	14.3
Jan-21	7.99	Jan-21	11.35
Feb-21	6.26	Feb-21	8.39
Mar-21	8.32	Mar-21	9.25
Totals	​ 45.03​		​ 67.46​

 

[mviy]

I think a reasonable compromise would be to let AP go, but deny the exemption request for her entourage. Let her go alone and manage without any of her usual assistants like a lot of business people would need to do if they do a trip at this time.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That's another piece of utter rubbish that gets bandied around by the fear and loathing brigade, led by Anna, Mark and Dan.

Those without permanent residency can only come if they have a visa AND they are in one of the special categories. Most have to apply for an exemption as well as a visa.

The numbers of visitors arriving are negligible (6,000-8,000 per month Oct 20-Mar 21). Compare that with between 8,000-14,000 resident returnees in the same period.

I haven't seen any numbers about multiple time short term visitors, but McGowan's own stats indicated multiple returnees were only 3.7% of total returnees, and I can't see any reason to believe short term multiple visit visitors are a tidal wave either.

Cheers skip

PS I left off April below because the stats don't differentiate pre bubble and post bubble arrivals, and April onwards is largely bubble people.

Visitor arrivals	'000	Resident returns	'000
Oct-20	6.07	Oct-20	11.17
Nov-20	7.57	Nov-20	13
Dec-20	8.82	Dec-20	14.3
Jan-21	7.99	Jan-21	11.35
Feb-21	6.26	Feb-21	8.39
Mar-21	8.32	Mar-21	9.25
Totals	​ 45.03​		​ 67.46​

You can be a citizen or Permanent Resident but *not* be resident in Australia. For example Aussie citizens/PR spending the majority of time each year outside of Australia. They have automatic right of return without the need for any exemption, and are free to leave again under the relevant exemption.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Yes, but these people aren't non-residents (i.e. not entitled to reside) for visa purposes. If they are multiple arrivals they are in the 3.7% of resident returns. Where is the evidence that there are '000s of them rorting the system?

BTW More than twice as many people departed Australia as arrived over that October-March period. No argument that it's much easier for a visitor to leave than for a resident to escape.

Cheers skip

 

[dajop]

But it's more than that Non-residents are free to come and go, multiple times. Just because an Aussie happens to live overseas, why are they permitted freedoms Aussies resident here don't have?

Whilst non-residents (citizens and Australian PRs) are free to go whenever they want, "free to come" is probably an overstatement, having to contend with flight caps, sometimes intake being suspended altogether (as happened with Vic), limited quarantine places, 2 weeks quarantine itself, very costly flights, it's not exactly a given that you can come and go whenever you please.

I assume the path was taken as it's one thing to lock your citizens in, another from restricting citizens from coming to their home country completely.

 

[louie-m]

Whilst non-residents (citizens and Australian PRs) are free to go whenever they want, "free to come" is probably an overstatement, having to contend with flight caps, sometimes intake being suspended altogether (as happened with Vic), limited quarantine places, 2 weeks quarantine itself, very costly flights, it's not exactly a given that you can come and go whenever you please.

I assume the path was taken as it's one thing to lock your citizens in, another from restricting citizens from coming to their home country completely.

The point remains that there are two categories of Australian citizens and PRs. Those that are resident in Australia and cannot leave the country without a permit. Those that are not resident and can. If you live in Australia and have family abroad, you cannot visit them. If you live abroad and wish to visit family in Australia, you can. In both of those examples, you would have to get into Australia, whether to arrive or return, so would have the same issues with quarantine, flight cost etc. That's hard for those of us in Australia to swallow.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Whilst non-residents (citizens and Australian PRs) are free to go whenever they want, "free to come" is probably an overstatement, having to contend with flight caps, sometimes intake being suspended altogether (as happened with Vic), limited quarantine places, 2 weeks quarantine itself, very costly flights, it's not exactly a given that you can come and go whenever you please.

I assume the path was taken as it's one thing to lock your citizens in, another from restricting citizens from coming to their home country completely.

I agree - haven’t seen my son in two years because coming home is not as easy as just whipping in and out. He is now fully vaccinated (with Pfizer) and is prepared to undergo the 2 weeks quarantine in order to combine renewing his USA visa with seeing us. He can do his consulate interview anywhere in the world, but obviously would like to see his family. This is probably unfair to people trapped in Australia who would like to leave to see family, but life is never fair.

I know Dr FM got very frustrated in December as there were people that she knew who were longtime UK residents and had registered to come home on a repatriation flight when they only intended coming for a few months to visit family and then were going to return. You would hope the high commission would have weeded those out, but she wasn’t convinced. She did feel that people who were returning permanently should have priority over “visitors” when it came to caps, but I think all put into the too hard basket.

a lot of this would disappear if they just had bigger caps for vaccinated people and smaller for non vaccinated - we will get there eventually.

 

[bcworld]

I know Dr FM got very frustrated in December as there were people that she knew who were longtime UK residents and had registered to come home on a repatriation flight when they only intended coming for a few months to visit family and then were going to return. You would hope the high commission would have weeded those out, but she wasn’t convinced.

The repatriation flights are sold to the general public on the Qantas website...anyone can book them. It seems the only mechanism DFAT has to align people registered with those flights is to send an email and say, book them quick! I would imagine in a lot of cases word has already got around anyway.

 

[Pushka]

The repatriation flights are sold to the general public on the Qantas website...anyone can book them. It seems the only mechanism DFAT has to align people registered with those flights is to send an email and say, book them quick! I would imagine in a lot of cases word has already got around anyway.

Indeed. At a Sydney wedding last April there were Aussies there who live in USA and they clearly didn't need to financially but they booked a repatriation flight from the USA, did their 2 week quarantine in Howard Springs which they described as very pleasant with fresh air, flew into Sydney, visited family, attended the wedding and were flying out to the US the next week.

 

[Flying mermaid]

The repatriation flights are sold to the general public on the Qantas website...anyone can book them. It seems the only mechanism DFAT has to align people registered with those flights is to send an email and say, book them quick! I would imagine in a lot of cases word has already got around anyway.

Yes Dr FM said when she got her email about a repatriation flight it was almost booked out already. She already had a commercial ticket so wasn’t too fussed, but just felt it was very unfair that people who had lived in the UK for 20 years and were coming back for a niece’s wedding and then returning to the UK were treated equally with people genuinely trying to get back permanently.

 

[Tiki]

Its not, she just wants a holiday

Wouldn’t that be a greater “weapon” in the cause to open the borders more quickly? A state premier living it up in Tokyo? If 70% of Aussies are pro Fortress Australia this can turn their heads around. Give her some rope….

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Wouldn’t that be a greater “weapon” in the cause to open the borders more quickly? A state premier living it up in Tokyo? If 70% of Aussies are pro Fortress Australia this can turn their heads around. Give her some rope….

The PM travelled to the UK for a mix of holiday and work. Not sure that had much impact?

Personally I think the QLD premier should stay and attend events in Tokyo... it can provide valuable insight to how things run.

 

[dajop]

Personally I think the QLD premier should stay and attend events in Tokyo... it can provide valuable insight to how things run.

[Devil’s advocate] There’s always Paris 2024 and LA 2028 to work that out. Bearing in mind Sydney were awarded the Olympics in September 1993, only 7 years out (not 11). And they did OK,[\Devil’s advocate]

 

[luxury-lizard]

But wait a sec - the vote on the Brisbane 2032 Olympics is set for July 21- very soon - surely this is sufficient justification for Anna et al to go to Tokyo. Maybe the announcement will be made while she's there. No sense objecting in any case - she's going and will not change her mind.

 

[dajop]

The point remains that there are two categories of Australian citizens and PRs. Those that are resident in Australia and cannot leave the country without a permit. Those that are not resident and can. If you live in Australia and have family abroad, you cannot visit them. If you live abroad and wish to visit family in Australia, you can. In both of those examples, you would have to get into Australia, whether to arrive or return, so would have the same issues with quarantine, flight cost etc. That's hard for those of us in Australia to swallow.

Oh I agree with you, even though I'm in the latter category (non resident and can visit). I'm actually quite sure as well there might be families of 4, 5 or 6 who would chose to remain where they are instead of coming back to Australia to visit, if for example the grandparents could travel from Australia to visit them instead. Cost aside, probably a lot easier to have retired grandparents stuck in quarantine for 2 weeks than working parent with 2 or 3 kids.

Australia seems to have abrogated responsibility for humanity - business travel from Australia seems free to come and go, albeit with a permit (if you believe what is written about the ease of getting a permit for business travel), but family reunion travel difficult or impossible. Singapore and NZ are two other jurisdictions that have managed strict hotel quarantine regimes without putting exit restrictions in place. Both are taking back lots more returning travellers into quarantine on a per capita basis than Australia (and Singapore is taking more on an absolute basis as well).

 

[moa999]

And it should also be noted that with pre-flight testing (and many countries having greater vaccination rates than us), the percentage of pax returning in HQ who are infected is lower..

So arguably we should be increasing numbers, not reducing.

 

[bcworld]

And it should also be noted that with pre-flight testing (and many countries having greater vaccination rates than us), the percentage of pax returning in HQ who are infected is lower..

I'm not sure how much difference pre-flight testing really made.

It started in mid to late January. Below are the numbers leading up to that (right hand most red number is daily HQ).

Daily Cases of Overseas acquired and Locally acquired - COVID Live

Live tracking of coronavirus cases, active, tests, deaths, ICU, hospitalisations and vaccinations in Australia

covidlive.com.au

The consider some of the periods we have seen since pre-flight testing was required.



or....



Probably some other variables at play here...I can't remember if MEL was accepting arrivals in Jan, probably not. But still, there have been periods since pre-flight testing came in when there were still high numbers of +ve arrivals.

 

[Lynda2475]

What is changing is where the overseas cases are coming from - using the NSW arrivals data (as Im not aware that other states publish it as regularly) you see a decline in cases from USA and UK, and increase in cases from middle east and subcontinent.

 

[dajop]

And it should also be noted that with pre-flight testing (and many countries having greater vaccination rates than us), the percentage of pax returning in HQ who are infected is lower..

So arguably we should be increasing numbers, not reducing.

Irrelevant, everybody outside Australia/NZ is extremely high risk

There has never been any risk stratification throughout the pandemic. Someone coming from places with functionally zero cases as always been considered the same as someone coming from places with 1000s or tens of thousands of new cases a day. Why should vaccination change that approach? Too much thought and planning required to do anything different.