Australian Housing Affordability Discussion

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Thats the thing, the council is not sympathetic and has really cracked down on how many units can be squeezed on a block. 3 is probably the max with the new regulations.

All depends where the block is and if it is in some special council or state economic zone. A bit like that house in Box Hill that was listed for 7 mill plus and was last sold ~200k in 1999. I knew a few people that have left Australia 10-15 years whose jaws drop when told how much their former homes and other real estate is going for.
 
All depends where the block is and if it is in some special council or state economic zone. A bit like that house in Box Hill that was listed for 7 mill plus and was last sold ~200k in 1999. I knew a few people that have left Australia 10-15 years whose jaws drop when told how much their former homes and other real estate is going for.

The council has recently implemented high green percentages for blocks so its much harder to overdevelop; minimum setbacks and minimum backyard sizes.
 
All depends where the block is and if it is in some special council or state economic zone. A bit like that house in Box Hill that was listed for 7 mill plus and was last sold ~200k in 1999. I knew a few people that have left Australia 10-15 years whose jaws drop when told how much their former homes and other real estate is going for.

Oh there's been a few of those in Glen Waverley, but they were residential re-zoned as commercial right next to Kingsway. This is down a quiet leafy residential street.
 
Even though we live part time in Sydney and Melbourne I try not to know too much about the burbs that stretch out for so many miles. The fact that hovels have been selling for millions is pretty surprising seeing the road and rail systems are below par compared to equivalent major cities. UBS are now saying the peak has been reached and the big four banks keep hiking their interest rates and deposit requirements for home investment loans so UBS may be correct.
 
The council has recently implemented high green percentages for blocks so its much harder to overdevelop; minimum setbacks and minimum backyard sizes.


Count your lucky stars.

In our area the Council created their Local environment Plan, it was approved and then within 2 years (LEP designed to last min 10) they are putting in to more than treble heights that they just increased in it. Curiously enough one developer who has bought three sites (that I have discovered so far) has put in for spot rezonings to go from 6 sotrey to over 20 storey right next to single storey Federation cottages.

Coincidentally that same developer has made numerous donations to the Fed arms of ALP and Lib/Nats over the previous 21 months.

How surprising...
 
An interesting article by David Llewellyn-Smith;

We all know that the Coalition hearts the housing bubble. Everything it does spells undying infatuation:
· protecting property tax rorts;
· focusing only on supply-side reform and even then doing pretty much nothing;
· shelving any and all policy reform that might disrupt its smooth and burgeoning progeny, plus
· running a staggeringly huge immigration program despite widespread economic damage.

It’s the last point that I want to focus on today because that’s the one where Coalition bubble-love rubber hits the road for its electoral prospects.

Since the WA election, Coalition polling has been devastated. A little bounce in Newspoll has been wiped out by landslides against the government in Ipsos and Essential polls. Moreover, the carnage has been just as apparent in the Coalition’s primary vote which has hemorrhaged voters to One Nation. The latter has been unaffected by the WA election despite doing less well than expected.

The major change in politics since the state result has been a commitment by One Nation to never ally with the Coalition again. The fringe party has realised that such pragmatism is lethal to its prospects.

This simple truth seems yet to have filtered through to the federal Coalition. As One Nation takes a material portion of its vote, and that vote refuses point blank to ally with it, there is ZERO chance of the Coalition winning a federal election ever again, and probably not at the state level either. While One Nation exists in this form, the Coalition has effectively ceased to exist as a political force.

One might have thought that the prospect of NEVER WINNING ANOTHER ELECTION might be enough to trigger some soul-searching in the party. And it has done a little. Do-nothing Malcolm has switched from toying with random ideas to deploying random ideas but it’s still all at the margins and is meaningless:
· 18c reform won’t move the needle;
· contradictory coal and hydro investment won’t move the needle;
· a retrograde company tax cut won’t move the needle;
· a supply-side housing affordability Budget won’t move the needle.

All together they might nudge it a little but it won’t be enough. Nothing like it.

Indeed, I’ll go so far as to say that the Coalition could do the following immensely popular policies and it would still get clubbed from office:
· abolish negative gearing;
· install gas reservation;
· offer tax cuts.

The problem is that these are all cyclical fixes for what is a structural shift to One Nation driven by one very simple truth: Australians are done with high immigration.

That’s Pauline Hanson’s primary appeal. She makes little sense on other issues and is bat **** crazy on many. But her one great power, the one that vibrates deep in the bowels of every Australian that is marginalised by house prices, falling wages, can’t get a job, is fearful of Islam or just a bigot, or is just plain pissed off at the direction of the country, is the deep and legitimate truth that running a mass immigration program during a period of high unemployment is treasonous economics.

Thus there is only one policy shift that can change the Coalition’s fate and it is as plain as the nose on Pauline Hanson’s face: cut immigration and cut it hard.

Cutting immigration back to 70k per year or less would completely shift every electoral parameter as the Coalition:
· finally had a housing affordability policy to put up against Labor’s negative gearing reforms;
· finally had an environmental policy to put up against the immigration-hypocritical Greens;
· could gut One Nation overnight and go to work on wiping it out by exposing the loons as weakening polls divide them.

This one policy shift would put the Coalition instantly in the running for the next election even if it were Do-nothing Malcolm that did it.
So, why does the Coalition suffer from such suicidal bubble-love that it can’t or won’t grab this lifeline?
· many Coalition MPs are personally leveraged to the bubble so they’ve their own financial interests in mind;
· as yesterday’s revelations about the MPs that prevented negative gearing reform showed, they are political hacks with terrible policy judgement;
· they are bereft of the intellectual depth and corporate memory to contemplate alternative economic models. Cutting immigration to 70k would take pressure off eastern capital house prices enabling further rate cuts and a lower currency;
· the Howard and Costello myths make this even worse,
· and, the Coalition is closely wedded to the business interests in banking, retail and construction that benefit from high immigration even as the net result is negative for the wider economy.

I’ll add one more factor which appears increasingly important. Career politicians don’t care for their own political party or its nominal values as they used to. The dominant ideology of unglued self-interest comes with the wonderful fringe benefit of not having to take responsibility for anything. Contemporary Coalition MPs see party membership as a gravy train to private sector riches in board positions, lobbying roles and other forms of ‘control fraud’ in the very sectors that thrive on the bubble. So, for them, arbitraging the fate of the party for personal gain is all just a part of being a good liberal.

Backing self-interest used to work in political forecasting but does this rabble even have that in them?
 
An interesting article by David Llewellyn-Smith;

Entire argument is predicated on several fallacies, firstly that One Nation will never deal with the Coalition or support any of their legislation in the Senate - which is not true. Secondly is the "house prices are expensive in the eastern suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne so it must be a national crisis" fallacy. I wish journalists would get out more and discover that the real estate market in Australia consist of more that inner Sydney and Melbourne. Thirdly - another political fallacy is that people are only attracted to One Nation if they are racists - which is a huge generalization and entirely misses the recent history of major parties in democracies being very much on the nose in electorates around Europe and North America. Many MPs from both sides of politics are personally leveraged to property in Australia, just as many home owners and investors also are. Another demographic fallacy is that if we just somehow stop all immigration then everything will be okay - besides making life difficult for business and employers to find staff, the demographic tidal wave of baby boomers retiring needs additional taxpayers and workers to keep the economy and government services going, not saying that immigration itself should be a 'sacred cow' and beyond criticism - the trick in immigration is to attract a good mix of young unskilled people with potential as well as people who already have the education and prospects to support themselves (or at least the desire to do so). Who knows - one thing I did agree with with the author was that maybe immigration numbers should be reviewed of tweaked as the economy grows/shrinks and changes. Once you strip away all those fallacies that article is mostly just empty political rhetoric - although I agree that both political parties have problems that are all filed under the broad topic of : "General discontentment for all major political parties".

I agree with many here that we need to encourage capital out of the two overheated/speculative particular parts of the real estate markets (without killing off the rest of the market or creating new problems elsewhere) and into more productive enterprises, and that expensive real estate in inner SYD and MEL may distort other parts of the economy.

But when you step back and look at the whole thing you will see that the flight of capital out of China, inefficient planning and poor land and infrastructure supply, low interest rates and all the other inefficient and illogical stamp duties and taxation rules, and fiddling with super rules really just drives money into the lowest risk/highest reward place where a government can't step in and confiscate your money. We shouldn't be surprised at this behaviour at all - no one works to accumulate wealth to have the governments take it all away - and most can accept a reasonable level of taxation - they only start looking to minimise tax if they think that governments aren't spending it wisely.

At the moment its government by "whack a mole" - target one problem by creating more rules and incentives and create two new unintended consequences and peverse incentives down the track. :rolleyes:

The most logical solution is to increase supply where real estate prices have become a bit 'toppy' or create alternatives to the high demand for areas that are a bit "toppy/overvalued" and let the overheated parts of the market cool down/deflate - but that would require three levels of government to actually co-operate in Australia, and consult people about what sort of new supply they actually want and we don't seem to want to elect people whom will co-operate with other levels of government at the moment, so instead we all sit around and piss and moan about how "expensive" house prices are in the most desirable inner city suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne.

We are not alone in this - there is some interesting reading on how various Canadian goverments are dealing with the same issues as we are.
 
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On top of eastwest 101's arguments the Coalition's poll numbers have been terrible for many months before the WA election.
One Nation's poll figures peaked in Feb so were going down before the WA election.
 
EW101 - my son wants to study in Sydney as that is the only place that provides the course combination he desires. He also wants to start his working life here (already has in some ways) because of his links with the NSW Arts Unit, SYO and other ensembles.

It would be nice if he could afford to buy a dwelling in Sydney at some point, but this is becoming increasingly unlikely due to the berserk property market.

I am sure Townsville is a lovely place to live and you are lucky that you had the option to pursue your interests/career there. Trouble is, if everyone moved to Townsville the problem would merely move there ...
 
We listed a house/597sq mtrs yesterday and already had two offers, close to our sell price. Was told the bidders didnt even look at the property.

Insane and Im thrilled, keeping fingers crossed.
 
EW101 - my son wants to study in Sydney as that is the only place that provides the course combination he desires. He also wants to start his working life here (already has in some ways) because of his links with the NSW Arts Unit, SYO and other ensembles.

It would be nice if he could afford to buy a dwelling in Sydney at some point, but this is becoming increasingly unlikely due to the berserk property market.

Best of luck for your son in his chosen course work and area of study. If his qualifications mean that there are absolutely no job opportunities anywhere else in the entire world and he is determined to stay in Sydney no matter what, then its his decision about whether he should consider saving and buying in Sydney at some point in the future (possibly during the upcoming apartment glut and price downturn would be my bet) or buy elsewhere that's not so expensive and build equity in the housing market from there, or rent and invest elsewhere instead of over-priced property. Its totally up to him of course - but as you say - prices look a bit silly in Sydney at the moment, but nothing in life is certain - prices can go down as well as up, and I don't claim to have a crystal ball to predict how much and when they will change anywhere.

I take your point though - the problem is where it is - and at the moment its in inner Sydney and Melbourne - and that's the geographic areas that should be targeted with whatever solutions they come up with, and that was one of my points. Despite views to the contrary in the media - there is more to Australia than the inner eastern suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne - but they sure are in demand at the moment. I can't see the entire population of Sydney wanting to move up here to Townsville myself, but if a few of them did, then they will find that its a pretty nice place (along with almost all of Australia) with relatively inexpensive housing.
 
We listed a house/597sq mtrs yesterday and already had two offers, close to our sell price. Was told the bidders didnt even look at the property.

Insane and Im thrilled, keeping fingers crossed.
I hope your agent is not as bad as the agent I used when I sold my apartment. Is fictitious bidding a term?
 
I hope your agent is not as bad as the agent I used when I sold my apartment. Is fictitious bidding a term?

Just had another offer and after talking with hubby, will be accepting in the morning.

Listed exactly 26hrs ago.
 
Wow that's great. Am interested to know why you wouldn't Auction though if it is that sought after?

I think because my husband is emotionally done with this property and was happy for a fast offer at the price he's happy with. Auction would have dragged it out and added expense and it needed kitchen and bathroom upgrade.

The house sold to be knocked down and development. This way, except for some cleaning and a mini skip, we haven't spent much to sell.
 
Seems like housing affordability is a worldwide problem due to foreign citizens laundering their money in housing.

[video=youtube;9fYiF7i28bo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fYiF7i28bo[/video]
 
Prices in Melbourne and Sydney have gone down slightly again.

Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane prices inched up between 0.4 and 0.1 per cent in the week to May 28, but Melbourne prices dropped 0.5 per cent to sit 1.8 per cent lower than a month earlier.
Prices in Sydney fell by 0.1 per cent, a seventh straight weekly decline that left prices in the NSW capital 1.3 per cent down over a month.
- See more at: Melbourne, Sydney home price lower

Chinese investors pulling out of the apartment market.

However, around 80 per cent of Chinese buyers will not be able to settle because of trouble getting finance, according to Ming Li, a real estate agent in Melbourne's eastern suburbs who specialises in selling Australian property to Chinese investors.

Chinese investors pull out of Melbourne apartment market - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Fund manager going into cash.

Australian asset manager Altair Asset Management has made the extraordinary decision to liquidate its Australian shares funds and return "hundreds of millions" of dollars back to its clients, citing an impending property market "calamity" and the "overvalued and dangerous time in this cycle".

Altair Asset Management hands back cash to clients citing looming correction

Prediction of the housing boom to result in blue collar job losses.

Citi downgraded jobs site Seek from neutral to sell and cut its price target from $16.20 to $15.30 because of the impact the end of the housing boom would have on job listing volumes. It also cited weakness in Seek's Asian divisions and overexposure locally as reasons for the ratings cut.

End of housing boom set to hit blue collar job ads
 
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