Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Lynda2475]

There was also a gathering at a church in Blacktown of dozens of people last night

How any places of worship are allowed to open at all is beyond me, far from an essential service. $5k fine useless since churches dont pay tax so $5k is nothing to them. If police can force businesses to close because of breaches, same should apply here.

 

[justinbrett]

How any places of worship are allowed to open at all is beyond me, far from an essential service. $5k fine useless since churches dont pay tax so $5k is nothing to them. If police can force businesses to close because of breaches, same should apply here.

They can't

A place of worship must not be open to members of the public.

Services may be live-streamed from a church, meeting house, mosque, synagogue, temple or other place of worship that is not open to members of the public.

You can attend the premises if you are directly involved in the service or the operation of the equipment for the live-stream event.

 

[Lynda2475]

They can't

Live streaming means production crew and often more than just 1 clergy are gathering. No reason stream couldnt be done solo from their own home (the rest of us have to wfh). Plus no QR codes even though they have been mandated since January. Shut it down and remove charitable status.

There have been a bunch of funeral breaches at churches and rookwood cemetary chapel in the last few weeks too, which have been mass spread events so churches have been open for those, even though a funeral coukd happen safely outdoors.

 

[jakeseven7]

There was also a gathering at a church in Blacktown of dozens of people last night.

Better pass the donations bucket around
You know when the churches don’t care about your rules you have truly lost the population!

——

Sydney churchgoers fined $30,000 after illegal gathering​

Thirty adults have been fined after attending an illegal church gathering on Sunday night in Sydney’s west.

NSW records 818 new cases, three deaths as new restrictions begin

Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the state had hit 5.9 million doses of the COVID-19 vaccine after a record 730,000 people were vaccinated last week.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Must...Fly!]

No reason stream couldnt be done solo from their own home

Actually there are innumerable reasons why that can't happen, but continue to pedal your opinion as fact as you wish

 

[justinbrett]

Live streaming means production crew and often more than just 1 clergy are gathering. No reason stream couldnt be done solo from their own home (the rest of us have to wfh). Plus no QR codes even though they have been mandated since January. Shut it down and remove charitable status.

There have been a bunch of funeral breaches at churches and rookwood cemetary chapel in the last few weeks too, which have been mass spread events so churches have been open for those, even though a funeral coukd happen safely outdoors.

Like any other business category, some do the wrong thing, not fair to punish all.

They should probably specify a maximum number of people permitted to be involved (say less than 5)

As long as KFC can open and EB games is open for click and collect, I don't think it's fair to remove this provision for churches, even if you aren't fond of them.

 

[antycbr]

Like any other business category, some do the wrong thing, not fair to punish all.

They should probably specify a maximum number of people permitted to be involved (say less than 5)

As long as KFC can open and EB games is open for click and collect, I don't think it's fair to remove this provision for churches, even if you aren't fond of them.

Don't give people ideas about more business closures...

 

[jakeseven7]

A good summary of the movement around the modelling and the rework being done of the virus spread now the NSW outbreak has escalated.

Will be interesting to see once reopening milestones are met all the backflips Premiers will do to avoid opening up as agreed…

——

Clash looms over Prime Minister’s lockdown exit target modelling​

Federal government MPs are demanding a clear path toward easing rules to give Australians a “reward” for signing up for vaccinations, with some calling for states to be able to go it alone rather than being held to the national target.


With national daily case numbers climbing to 917 on Sunday, the highest since the pandemic began, state and territory leaders questioned Mr Morrison’s claim that the medical advice to national cabinet endorsed the plan even at high infection rates.

The advice, from Doherty Institute professor of epidemiology Jodie McVernon and her colleagues, assumed only 30 cases in one scenario but is being clarified with a new assessment likely to go to states and territories this week.

Clash looms over Prime Minister’s lockdown exit target

Labor leader Anthony Albanese, though, is calling for the public to see the full health advice so people could know whether it was safe to ease the rules.

www.smh.com.au

 

[antycbr]

Federal government MPs are demanding a clear path toward easing rules to give Australians a “reward” for signing up for vaccinations, with some calling for states to be able to go it alone rather than being held to the national target.

The go it alone argument has significant implications for NSW, and for QF. If NSW with 8.1m people is allowed to restart international travel (as a "pilot" you might say) there will be a lot of happy people in this state and a lot of very angry people in other states.

 

[hydrabyss]

Better pass the donations bucket around
You know when the churches don’t care about your rules you have truly lost the population!

——

Sydney churchgoers fined $30,000 after illegal gathering​

Thirty adults have been fined after attending an illegal church gathering on Sunday night in Sydney’s west.

NSW records 818 new cases, three deaths as new restrictions begin

Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the state had hit 5.9 million doses of the COVID-19 vaccine after a record 730,000 people were vaccinated last week.

www.smh.com.au

Well they must have shown leniency on them as I thought the fines where larger than that.

 

[justinbrett]

Lol yeah right, a belief in a mythical higher power doesnt trump public health safety.

Bars can open to serve take away drinks and coughtails... a different kind of spirit

How about all of the businesses comply with the health orders and that way you don't have to pick them based on which ones you agree with.

 

[jb747]

Perhaps it could be argued that belief in a mythic being makes more sense than belief in competent politicians….

 

[andye]

To many it will be intrinsically linked to public health - mental health. I'm sure religion has helped many get through these difficult times.

Plenty of people have taken enormous personal risk for their faith throughout history. Pity about the current community risk (especially in Blacktown and surrounds) especially when there is an online alternative that could fulfil the spiritual need

 

[kamchatsky]

Lol yeah right, a belief in a mythical higher power doesnt trump public health safety.

Given that Place of Worship doesn't open to the public, why do you think public health safety is compromised for any pastors/religious leaders goes to their place of worship for the purpose of live streaming?

 

[jakeseven7]

Well they must have shown leniency on them as I thought the fines where larger than that.

Maybe they found all the rules confusing

 

[Lynda2475]

I'm sure religion has helped many get through these difficult times

It's not like religion hasnt inflicted thousands of years of mental health damage. You can practice your faith at home if hou are inclined, your faith doesnt come with privilege.

Bars can open to serve take away drinks and coughtails... a different kind of spirit

How about all of the businesses comply with the health orders and that way you don't have to pick them based on which ones you agree with.

Yes businesses should comply. Churches are highly profitable busineses who pay no tax, so should be subject to the same rules, and not get off lightly simply because they are a church. Police have forced cafes to close for lesser breaches (taking a mask off when alone in store), yet give this church a slap on the wrist, $5k is nothing when you dont pay tax.

Fact that this church didnt have QR codes up means that even before this lcokdown they were breaching covid safe plan by not tracking who was attending, so they likely were also repeatedly breachijg gathering numbers.

Click and collect and takeaway are low risk, whereas we have many confirmed transmission events at religious services. You cant pray the covid away.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Plenty of people have taken enormous personal risk for their faith throughout history. Pity about the current community risk (especially in Blacktown and surrounds) especially when there is an online alternative that could fulfil the spiritual need

The proposal was to ban online streaming from the place of worship. Probably safer for the officiant + 1 doing the streaming to be at a place of worship than cooped up in a small room at someone's house. The congregation would remain at home.

 

[Seat0B]

And in other news, the response in Far Western NSW is giving significant cause for concern.
A snippet from The Australian
View attachment 256240
The usual SNAFU in rural and regional but this has the potential for unacceptable consequences.

That’s bad procurement right there - “ contractor didn’t work weekends” .

 

[justinbrett]

It's not like religion hasnt inflicted thousands of years of mental health damage. You can practice your faith at home if hou are inclined, your faith doesnt come with privilege.



Yes businesses should comply. Churches are highly profitable busineses who pay no tax, so should be subject to the same rules, and not get off lightly simply because they are a church. Police have forced cafes to close for lesser breaches (taking a mask off when alone in store), yet give this church a slap on the wrist, $5k is nothing when you dont pay tax.

Fact that this church didnt have QR codes up means that even before this lcokdown they were breaching covid safe plan by not tracking who was attending, so they likely were also repeatedly breachijg gathering numbers.

Click and collect and takeaway are low risk, whereas we have many confirmed transmission events at religious services. You cant pray the covid away.

Well, services are not permitted, so that's a moot argument. Live stream church is even lower risk than a takeaway store or click and collect, assuming the numbers are reasonable (less than 5).

I think you're in la la land if you think churches are highly profitable business. Hillsong yes, and a couple of others, the rest are poor.

 

[Lynda2475]

Given that Place of Worship doesn't open to the public

They have been allowing people in for funerals (10 guest limit but no limits on funeral comoany staff or church staff) and illegal services. Why does more than 1 person need to be there to stream a service (some have had multiple clergy, choirs, production crews outnumbering a professional film crew). Millions of teenagers worldwide have figured out how to self stream, its not a technically difficult task, no need for more than 1 person to stream.

The proposal was to ban online streaming from the place of worship. Probably safer for the officiant + 1 doing the streaming to be at a place of worship than cooped up in a small room at someone's house. The congregation would remain at home.

No the proposal was for 1 person to stream, that is all it takes, no need for multiple people to be crammed in anywhere.