Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[Pushka]

I must admit I have a similar struggle of conscience about this topic.

I don't think we should be placing doctors and nurses in dangerous environments if they haven't agreed to that - e.g. joining deployed military medical teams. However there are elements to medicine that do entail risk and sometimes can't be avoided. It surely has to be in the back of your mind when deciding or training to be a medical professional that at some point, you will likely end up endangering yourself in order to help another.

It is not something I champion or think is great in any way, shape or form - but it probably is the reality. Probably the best to respond here would be the medical professional on AFF, if they wish to do so.

I struggle with the paradox of having people being accountable for their decisions but that then impacts badly on health workers. If the non vaxxers just disappeared off the planet then let it rip but that doesn't happen of course. Of course medical sign up for managing people in very difficult health circumstances but this pandemic takes it beyond the norm, which after all, hasn't gone away either. And so many medical personnel have been moved from the clinical to the testing and vaccination areas.

 

[N860CR]

A huge amount of work within the health system is dealing with people who have made poor decisions and need medical treatment. If anyone went into medicine not understanding this… well their careers advisor needs a good talking to.

That said, I have dealt with a number of professionals who do seem to struggle a bit, so it clearly is an issue. Sadly, many in medicine do have a fairly poor understanding of the workings of the greater world.

 

[drron]

The problem is only one State has released a triage protocol for ICU admissions and has it available for public viewing.So in the other States there is always the potential for an aggrieved relative if a patient died who had been refused ICU admission.
The one State is WA.
You can see the situation in States and territories by clicking Box 1 in this article.

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

www.mja.com.au

 

[Princess Fiona]

The problem is only one State has released a triage protocol for ICU admissions and has it available for public viewing.So in the other States there is always the potential for an aggrieved relative if a patient died who had been refused ICU admission.
The one State is WA.
You can see the situation in States and territories by clicking Box 1 in this article.

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

www.mja.com.au

Check your inbox

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The problem is only one State has released a triage protocol for ICU admissions and has it available for public viewing.So in the other States there is always the potential for an aggrieved relative if a patient died who had been refused ICU admission.
The one State is WA.
You can see the situation in States and territories by clicking Box 1 in this article.

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

Transparent triage policies during the COVID‐19 pandemic: a critical part of medico‐legal risk management for clinicians

www.mja.com.au

It's a good point and one the politicians aren't keen on raising. The thought of having to triage patients on this scale - withdrawing or withholding services from the old and vulnerable to benefit the young - is unlikely to be a vote winner. This is the sort of issue that needs to be going to the media now so they can start asking questions and the public is making an informed consent when it comes to agreeing to opening up.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Sure but it’s the hospital staff who have to deal with their poor choice. And on which policy decisions may be made.

There is a segment of society that treats medics and healthcare with a bizarre degree of disdain.

I must admit I have a similar struggle of conscience about this topic.

I don't think we should be placing doctors and nurses in dangerous environments if they haven't agreed to that - e.g. joining deployed military medical teams. However there are elements to medicine that do entail risk and sometimes can't be avoided. It surely has to be in the back of your mind when deciding or training to be a medical professional that at some point, you will likely end up endangering yourself in order to help another.

It is not something I champion or think is great in any way, shape or form - but it probably is the reality. Probably the best to respond here would be the medical professional on AFF, if they wish to do so.

I think the agreement point is an excellent point. If someone regardless of their profession and needs of society is being coerced into doing something, then we are bordering on a type of slavery.

 

[Pushka]

There is a segment of society that treats medics and healthcare with a bizarre degree of disdain.



I think the agreement point is an excellent point. If someone regardless of their profession and needs of society is being coerced into doing something, then we are bordering on a type of slavery.

I'm sure there are many medical situations where medical people are challenged by their professional standards and private beliefs. I don't know what happens in such situations. Can someone refuse to conduct their duties because of this conflict? I don't think so.

 

[Must...Fly!]

There is a segment of society that treats medics and healthcare with a bizarre degree of disdain.



I think the agreement point is an excellent point. If someone regardless of their profession and needs of society is being coerced into doing something, then we are bordering on a type of slavery.

Responsibility doesn't equate to slavery.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I'm sure there are many medical situations where medical people are challenged by their professional standards and private beliefs. I don't know what happens in such situations. Can someone refuse to conduct their duties because of this conflict?

In a word, no.
We all practice under the Declaration of Geneva

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I'm sure there are many medical situations where medical people are challenged by their professional standards and private beliefs. I don't know what happens in such situations. Can someone refuse to conduct their duties because of this conflict?

Getting way off topic, but I think the clearest example for personal reading is doctors being asked to perform abortions

 

[Spongbob]

... If someone regardless of their profession and needs of society is being coerced into doing something, then we are bordering on a type of slavery.

Conscription? National Service?
Lawful direction from their employer?

Are the above examples "a type of slavery"?

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Conscription? National Service?
Lawful direction from their employer?

Are the above examples "a type of slavery"?

Quarantine, lockdowns, masks........are also lawful directions that some in these threads complain/object to as well.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Responsibility doesn't equate to slavery.

But isn't that the point - to use lay terms a foot specialist doesn't choose the responsibility to be a covid specialist. If its a lung specialist then I could understand that they chose the responsibility.

 

[drron]

Check your inbox

Thank you.i believe that is what the MJA article was alluding to that there was a policy just not publically available.You would have thought that they may have thought it worthwhile to keep the AMA in the loop.
On the other hand it does not surprise me that the upper level bureaucrats of NSW Health are so devoid of common sense they just wouldn't have thought of that.

They do have a long history of what can only be called stupidity and when finally retired I may decide to spill the beans.

 

[MARTINE]

Thank you.i believe that is what the MJA article was alluding to that there was a policy just not publically available.You would have thought that they may have thought it worthwhile to keep the AMA in the loop.
On the other hand it does not surprise me that the upper level bureaucrats of NSW Health are so devoid of common sense they just wouldn't have thought of that.

They do have a long history of what can only be called stupidity and when finally retired I may decide to spill the beans.

@drron (un)masked….

Post automatically merged: Aug 28, 2021

I’ll buy it

 

[Must...Fly!]

But isn't that the point - to use lay terms a foot specialist doesn't choose the responsibility to be a covid specialist. If its a lung specialist then I could understand that they chose the responsibility.

But in the course of treatment during a pandemic, an orthopaedist would encounter COVID through their regular work. Or they sit at home, and their skills would better be used than to be wasted.

Indeed a "lung specialist" as you term it may have zero interest in infectious disease which may well be the speciality most accepting of the risk.

 

[Spongbob]

Quarantine, lockdowns, masks........are also lawful directions that some in these threads complain/object to as well.

Ummm, relevance to the topic of this thread?

Perhaps an "off topic" thread would be more appropriate (AFF perviously had such a thread, but I am not sure if it still exists).

 

[kpc]

Check your inbox

We were involved early on in drafting this...we put up strong resistance that 70 yo would be the cut off for ICU admissions! I can tell you the public will not be happy with this triage process!

 

[jakeseven7]

NSW Health since yesterday will not provide wild figures and running totals of how many under investigation - last count was high-7000s, now probably 9000s

I think it’s good that NSW are slowly restricting the numbers. Started with not publishing all exposure sites, and to be honest we all know a huge majority of the NSW cases are always in the wild anyway so why stress an anxious public further…. Just need to get people focused on the more important numbers like vaccination rates.

 

[Seat0B]

I struggle with the paradox of having people being accountable for their decisions but that then impacts badly on health workers. If the non vaxxers just disappeared off the planet then let it rip but that doesn't happen of course.

And of course the anti-vax brigade will cost taxpayers a lot of money providing treatment.