Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[RAM]

The WA Dept of Health have been handing out RAT tests at my small local shopping centre all this week. Everyone gets ten at a time - I felt like I was at a kids party getting my lolly bag. From my unskilled observations mask wearing there is at about 40% but I mainly shop during working hours with all the other oldies. There was always some mask wearing anyway due to my area having a relatively large ethnic Chinese population.

Perhaps acts as awake up call to people, who no longer consider Covid an issue, for State Govt to be giving something away vs normal taking something away - with no State Election in the offing.

 

[oz_mark]

Perhaps acts as awake up call to people, who no longer consider Covid an issue, for State Govt to be giving something away vs normal taking something away - with no State Election in the offing.

They bought like 100 million of the things for political reasons. Now they need to do something with them.

 

[andye]

Was the issue (ethical) that of an eldely person with Covid-19 vs a young person needing ICU, not a young person with Covid-19 needing ICU? That makes a massive difference in the number of 'young' person ICU admissions.

NSW Health, seemingly has a rule that nobody aged 90 or older can be admitted to the ICU with Covid-19. Before somebody calls FAKE - have a look at the NSW Health statistics. Only one person aged 90 or older was admitted with Covid-19 into ICU from early 2020 to late 2021 (last time I checked) and they were somebody's relative...

I may have missed the public announcement of this - can anybody direct me to the NSW Govt media release declaring this policy?

Having had three close relatives who all sailed through their 90s - two of whom were active (walking briskly, gardening, shopping) until literally the last minute (one had ordered her breakfast in bed, unusually, and when it arrived she had died) through to 98, 99 11m 20 days (missed out from her much desired card) and 101 (proud possessor of the card, and said 'You'd thought she could have given me a better smile') - I was very thankful that they were not around when Covid-19 struck with all its issues for isolation.
________________________________

Back to elderly covid-19 patient vs young (does that mean under 65? Under 50? Under 40? Under 30?) patient getting priority for an ICU bed.

Given the life expectancy for someone who is 70 years old is to live to a greater age than someone who has reached 50, which is greater than for someone who has reached 40 etc etc. The actuarial tables are there for all to see.

What if this 'young' person has some issue that is 'socially' frowned upon - such as long term illegal drug use (that has severely damaged multiple organs hence need for ICU ), drunk driver who has just wiped out three children walking on the footpath, or some societal 'worst' habit with criminal convictions (murderer, rapist, paedophile etc)?

There are restrictions on who is eligible for organ transplants (which are somewhat public), so is it that much of a stretch for the community to ask for similar transparency about ICU admission?

Anything otherwise seems to be just socializing 'Russian Roulette'.

Attempts to deflect this question by saying there are few 'young' Covid-19 patients put into ICU, to me, is irrelevant. The issue seemingly is ageist, not Covid, related.

There is no conspiracy and as mentioned by others, if someone is felt to benefit from ICU in NSW they will (almost always) get the bed (even if it means someone needs to be moved to another hospital or someone else's complex elective surgery get postponed)

The issue is will they benefit. I can assure you there are many, many people in their 90s who are admitted to ICU in NSW. However, very few of them have mutiorgan failure or diffuse interstitial lung disease as their general frailty means that if they are bad enough to be considering ventilation in those circumstances, it will be futile. Covid pneumonitis fits into those groups.

However, very few people in their 90s are unvaccinated and so covid pneumonitis is uncommon. It's more likely that covid is incidental or worsening a significant underlying illness like chronic heart or lung disease which again is not going to be the sort of reversible thing that ICU can fix.

Overall it is not an issue of age, it is one of frailty and prospect of benefit. I'd be surprised if even the Queen becomes ill that she would be ventilated as one can now see that she is frail.

Important to remember that the 90 year old running about town being treasurer of the Lions Club is not sick at that stage but is incredibly so if the question of ICU comes up. This is also relevant to thinking about CPR in the frail

I can assure(?) you that being a drug addict, rapist or paedophile will not prevent them accessing appropriate medical treatment including ICU whatever public opinion might say (As you say organ failure in a drug addict is unlikely to lead to transplantation but this is usually because the chance of the precious organ surviving is low)

 

[JohnK]

And I fully intend to get my life back to normal.

Good luck with that one.

Covid (or the next virus) hasn't finished yet. Note I did not say variant.

 

[straitman]

Not for the person suffering because they are being forced to live in extreme physical pain against their will, because someone else doesn't agree with their life choices. So we can agree to disagree.

No. You obviously did not read or consider what I wrote as your answer does not actually answer what was written.

 

[Lynda2475]

No i just completely disagree with your position, no one will ever know my mind better than me.

 

[straitman]

[mod hat] Moving on.

A reminder to everyone (myself included) that the topic here is "

"Australian Reports of the Virus Spread"​

Let's get back to the topic.

[/mod hat]

 

[N860CR]

Good luck with that one.

Covid (or the next virus) hasn't finished yet. Note I did not say variant.

So it only started with covid did it? We’ve had viruses since the world began and you’re right, we’ll have more. And they’ll spread. Just as they did before. I highly doubt governments will ever get mass compliance again (they certainly cried wolf, and it’s not for the best).

You may not want to “get back to normal”, but as much as I hate to be the one to have to tell you, virtually everyone else has.

 

[Quickstatus]

The latest NSW epidemiological report

Influenza peak over for another year



Covid persisting - Omicron B.A.4 and B.A.5 subtypes predominant




Again NSW Health still refuses to divulge data for Admission reason:
1) With Covid but not for Covid,
2) With and for Covid,
3) For Covid

And most deaths are "Covid deaths" if the patient tested positive for Covid, irrespective of the cause of death, unless a clear alternative cause

 

[andye]

....
Again NSW Health still refuses to divulge data for Admission reason:
1) With Covid but not for Covid,
2) With and for Covid,
3) For Covid

Interested in your thoughts as to why it matters
The total covid number affects resources (just as much trouble to isolate an incidental as a hypoxic covid case)
The ICU data is a good marker for severe illness
I suppose the total number might be less "scary" if publicised that about half is incidental and might make mask-advocates a bit less likely to demand widespread restrictions

 

[JohnK]

You may not want to “get back to normal”, but as much as I hate to be the one to have to tell you, virtually everyone else has.

Slow down a little. I want to get back to normal but there's no need to rush like we've done a few times the past couple of years.

Do you understand gain for function research? Keep telling me you think covid was natural and originated from bats to pangolin sold in the Wuhan wet markets. What else is in Wuhan?

There are so many clues out there. Believe no one. Join the dots.

 

[Quickstatus]

Interested in your thoughts as to why it matters

Data transparency is the main reason. and public confidence in the promulgated information.

The ICU data is a good marker for severe illness

Even then, its rubbery. ICU admissions may not be Covid related - even if the patient is Covid positive. eg. Cesarean patient gets sent to ICU because her blood pressure is dangerously high from pre-eclampsia, and she just so happens to be Covid⁺
It could be classified as "Covid incidental to primary disease"

 

[N860CR]

Slow down a little. I want to get back to normal but there's no need to rush like we've done a few times the past couple of years.

Do you understand gain for function research? Keep telling me you think covid was natural and originated from bats to pangolin sold in the Wuhan wet markets. What else is in Wuhan?

There are so many clues out there. Believe no one. Join the dots.

Ok John. To be honest, I’m not overly concerned about it’s origins or any Chinese conspiracy. What I do know is that it’s a mild virus that I’m fully vaccinated against and fully recovered from. It’s of zero concern to me, and I’d hazard a guess the vast majority of the population.

 

[drron]

Interested in your thoughts as to why it matters
The total covid number affects resources (just as much trouble to isolate an incidental as a hypoxic covid case)
The ICU data is a good marker for severe illness
I suppose the total number might be less "scary" if publicised that about half is incidental and might make mask-advocates a bit less likely to demand widespread restrictions

It matters because those admitted for other reasons and then diagnosed as having covid obviously were admitted anyway and can't be used by whichever Government or Health department as an excuse for overcrowded hospitals. they have an obvious reason for not releasing that data and it sucks.

 

[Quickstatus]

They have to persuade the Japanese people it isn't dangerous

Interesting how it's the other way around in AU. The govt is trying to persuade the Aussies it is dangerous..

 

[JohnM]

It matters because those admitted for other reasons and then diagnosed as having covid obviously were admitted anyway and can't be used by whichever Government or Health department as an excuse for overcrowded hospitals. they have an obvious reason for not releasing that data and it sucks.

And the media - well, the ABC certainly - are bad for quoting deaths as from Covid, not with Covid, and not taking the trouble to either distinguish between the two, or at least nuance the information. They thereby greatly exaggerate the Covid-specific mortality and dial up the fear factor.

 

[JohnK]

Ok John. To be honest, I’m not overly concerned about it’s origins or any Chinese conspiracy. What I do know is that it’s a mild virus that I’m fully vaccinated against and fully recovered from. It’s of zero concern to me, and I’d hazard a guess the vast majority of the population.

Totally understand you have zero concern. I'm really happy you got through it easily and without damage.

Spare a thought for those who have experienced difficulties or have lost loved ones. They don't need to hear it's a storm in a teacup that will pass.

 

[N860CR]

Totally understand you have zero concern. I'm really happy you got through it easily and without damage.

Spare a thought for those who have experienced difficulties or have lost loved ones. They don't need to hear it's a storm in a teacup that will pass.

As you’ve been told countless times, the mortality rate is less than 0.1% and primarily impacts those who are already in end of life care. Nobody is saying it isn’t sad, but this virus is far less severe than viruses like influenza or incidents such as falls in aged care facilities. It does not warrant the mass panic we are still trying to push.

 

[VPS]

And the media - well, the ABC certainly - are bad for quoting deaths as from Covid, not with Covid, and not taking the trouble to either distinguish between the two, or at least nuance the information. They thereby greatly exaggerate the Covid-specific mortality and dial up the fear factor.

I often wonder whether it's the media or whether the data they get is actually distinguishing the two and especially with some of the older cohort they may not actually know

 

[N860CR]

I often wonder whether it's the media or whether the data they get is actually distinguishing the two and especially with some of the older cohort they may not actually know

Perhaps a good chance for a journalist to do a bit of journalisting and figure it out. Although the profession does seem to reacher the point of just rehashing media releases and stories that amount to advertising.