Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[drron]

So your argument is we have a mask mandate? How else can you achieve your goal. Of course to do so will incite more civil disobedience.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So your argument is we have a mask mandate? How else can you achieve your goal. Of course to do so will incite more civil disobedience.

We shouldn’t have to. It should be something everyone is willing to do.

false messaging is a key factor against this.

 

[Quickstatus]

It should be something everyone is willing to do.

That “co-operation” went out the door a long time ago due to the “ one rule for me, one rule for thee” and the rubbery “follow the science” mantra. A lot of the “science” was based on modelling which was based on certain assumptions. Actual science was thin on the ground.
People are now in the living with Covid era and have moved on.

Will there be another pandemic?. As sure as the sun rises in the east. Hopefully those in govt will have learnt some lessons by then

 

[QF WP]

One of these days I'll get around to consider getting the first booster. After having acute COVID in late January to early March (after being double jabbed) , I think my effectiveness has probably worn off. I consider the boosters to be just like the annual flu jab.

 

[JohnK]

We shouldn’t have to. It should be something everyone is willing to do.

false messaging is a key factor against this.

People don't care about anyone other than themselves. That is clearly evident in a lot of these threads.

In Thailand 2.5 months after last visit and mask usage in streets is very high and even higher indoors.

Wearing a mask is one of the most minor inconveniences we've ever had to do and I struggle to understand the resistance.

 

[oz_mark]

That “co-operation” went out the door a long time ago due to the “ one rule for me, one rule for thee” and the rubbery “follow the science” mantra. A lot of the “science” was based on modelling which was based on certain assumptions. Actual science was thin on the ground.

People just aren't used to seeing Science in action. It really is about accumulating knowledge, and following the evidence. Nothing in 'science' guarantees it gets it right the first time...

 

[dajop]

Wearing a mask is one of the most minor inconveniences we've ever had to do and I struggle to understand the resistance.

It became politicized very early on, that's why. Less so in Australia though, except through social media.

Interestingly, in recent travel to Vietnam, I think it's still required in airports and on planes, yet a lot of caucasians seem to think largely that such rules don't apply to them. <50% of caucasians wearing masks even though compulsory, yet probably 95%+ of locals. I guess us caucasians have been disrespectful of local customs for centuries, why start now? Too be fair, everyone I saw/heard with an Australian or NZ passport or accent was wearing mask, and even most Americans(!). But Europeans, not so much.

 

[ketsuzei]

This is advocating an ‘all or nothing’ approach.

LOL. "All or nothing" would be mandating masks explicitly or hoping that everyone will just "do the right thing".

Non-compulsory means just that. It's unreasonable to expect people to do something non-compulsory just because *you* think they should.

So you'll get some people wearing masks, and some not. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

LOL. "All or nothing" would be mandating masks explicitly or hoping that everyone will just "do the right thing".

Non-compulsory means just that. It's unreasonable to expect people to do something non-compulsory just because *you* think they should.

So you'll get some people wearing masks, and some not. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

Agree. However the refence to 'all or nothing' in this context was the attempt by some to conflate and link masks with lockdowns.

 

[ethernet]

Boring. American got covid in Melb. Thanks to Two Factor Authentication his credit cards and Woolworths home delivery to the door keep on getting mysteriously cancelled. All this two factor nonsense does not fit in with covid - not at all. Cancelled because some items you must be over 18 ...
Let me clarify two factor identification issues. The bank says we sent you a message on your phone via SMS. You say I did not get it. They say we have your phone number you used 3 years ago - we cant change that - you have to go into our bank branch personally... Fat chance if you have iso.

 

[drron]

We shouldn’t have to. It should be something everyone is willing to do.

false messaging is a key factor against this.

Rubbish. Remember the anti mask protests in Melbourne during lockdown? The messaging was pretty specific.
And I'll give you 2 instances in the last week on pour cruise. An older Australian couple so obviously in a higher risk group. A week ago and on a bus excursion in Italy where wearing a mask is mandatory and must be a proper fitting mask the gentleman was wearing a surgical mask so strike 1 as that is not considered appropriate. Strike 2 was that he had a really suspicious repetitive cough. Strike 3 was that he took off his mask to cough!
Then this morning the woman of the couple had the same sort of cough. Although sitting in a function space with at least 100 other guests waiting to disembark she was maskless. We moved. Reported it but hands in the air as unless seen by crew nothing could be done.

In Australia my guess is less than 50% and probably closer to 20% are willing to test and wear masks. So your aim is not possible.

 

[ethernet]

Question. I hear the 'fines' for breaches in Victoria have not been collected. Are they actually enforcing those tough fines - fairly, rather than letting certain minority interests get off the hook.

 

[JohnK]

In Australia my guess is less than 50% and probably closer to 20% are willing to test and wear masks. So your aim is not possible.

Why? Trust? Silly excuse.

Masks are proven to prevent spread even if small amount. Why not try to reduce spread?

Mask rules in hospitals must be dumb. My GP must be dumb because you have to wear a mask in his practice.

I don't care if this has become political. Means nothing to me as politics mean nothing to me. As I said and will continue to say this is one of most minor inconveniences we've had imposed on us but we want to rebel like teenagers told they can't go out past midnight.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Rubbish. Remember the anti mask protests in Melbourne during lockdown? The messaging was pretty specific.
And I'll give you 2 instances in the last week on pour cruise. An older Australian couple so obviously in a higher risk group. A week ago and on a bus excursion in Italy where wearing a mask is mandatory and must be a proper fitting mask the gentleman was wearing a surgical mask so strike 1 as that is not considered appropriate. Strike 2 was that he had a really suspicious repetitive cough. Strike 3 was that he took off his mask to cough!
Then this morning the woman of the couple had the same sort of cough. Although sitting in a function space with at least 100 other guests waiting to disembark she was maskless. We moved. Reported it but hands in the air as unless seen by crew nothing could be done.

In Australia my guess is less than 50% and probably closer to 20% are willing to test and wear masks. So your aim is not possible.

I remember anti lockdown protests. I don't recall they were mask specific

The only arguement put forward by those opposed to wearing masks is that they are inconvenient. 'Inconvenience' is not a scientific rationale.

 

[straitman]

Why? Trust? Silly excuse.

Masks are proven to prevent spread even if small amount. Why not try to reduce spread?

Mask rules in hospitals must be dumb. My GP must be dumb because you have to wear a mask in his practice.

I don't care if this has become political. Means nothing to me as politics mean nothing to me. As I said and will continue to say this is one of most minor inconveniences we've had imposed on us but we want to rebel like teenagers told they can't go out past midnight.

There are many research papers that discuss how well masks work and just as many that say the opposite.

 

[CMA222]

On the question of surgeons wearing masks the reason is to reduce post operative infection -that is to protect the patient not the surgeon.

So how is that any different from a person wearing a mask to potentially reduce the spread of a virus called Covid-19 ?

There are many research papers that discuss how well masks work and just as many that say the opposite.

Exactly ! In the first year of an economics degree students study statistical analysis. It is often referred to as 'the course on how to lie/mislead with statistics - to support your case'.

 

[oznflfan]

I remember anti lockdown protests. I don't recall they were mask specific

The only arguement put forward by those opposed to wearing masks is that they are inconvenient. 'Inconvenience' is not a scientific rationale.

How about I hate them to the degree if I had an all expenses paid fortnight holiday to xx_X country whereby they had an indoor and outdoor mask wearing policy I would rather stay at work.

May consider going if only indoor mask mandate and I would ensure 99% of the time outdoors.

 

[Quickstatus]

'Inconvenience' is not a scientific rationale

Yes it is.
It is a reason why people don't like wearing masks - especially the N95 version. And public health policies need to take into account what people are prepared to do and how far the policies can be enforced.

The science of masks is poor quality. People don't wear masks correctly. People don't wear the correct mask for the context
Singer masks (the sewing machine version) were useless but they were promoted as part of the "follow the science".

Masks are proven to prevent spread even if small amount. Why not try to reduce spread?

Actually not in the context of surgery
Various statistical reviews of surgical masks have been done and there is no statistical evidence to say mask wearing is preventative of postop infection or for that matter not preventative of post op infections.
Mask wearing is basically policy based.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes it is.
It is a reason why people don't like wearing masks - especially the N95 version. And public health policies need to take into account what people are prepared to do and how far the policies can be enforced.

The science of masks is poor quality. People don't wear masks correctly. People don't wear the correct mask for the context
Singer masks (the sewing machine version) were useless but they were promoted as part of the "follow the science".

No safety measure is going to be 100% effective, 100% of the time. Not even seatbelts in planes and cars.

To expect masks to be 100% effective is not realistic, and perhaps a red herring in the arguments of those opposed to wearing masks?

 

[Quickstatus]

perhaps a red herring in the arguments of those opposed to wearing masks

That might be true, but that argument does not hold water either.
Effective mask wearing in the context of aerosolised protection suggests that the best masks are N95 worn in a way that creates a good seal.
Why promote ineffective or less effective mask wearing instead of the most effective?
I understand very early on there were a shortage of PPE.
But the govt could have ramped up N95 production but didn't. It did manage to get local AZ vaccine production. But N95 not high tech.

Then the science?. Did the govt study the effectiveness of mask wearing mandates?. No because it is an almost impossible to do a proper study.

Not to say mask wearing is bad, but it can be nuanced.