Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I wonder if the premier will show up for tomorrow's press conference.

This afternoon's was a total shocker. And the answer when the health minister was asked "where is the premier"?

"He is following the rules and working from home"

Was it 110 days straight during lockdown 2.0 that he managed to duck that apparently suddenly important requirement?

The acting Vic Health Minister is clearly trying to make a name for himself.

Basically stonewalling (“I make it a rule...”) the whole nebuliser/ refused test while symptomatic issue.....and that’s from the media blogs following it.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I am the first to admit they are in a tough spot

But the mistakes keep coming and billions of dollars and several inquires later, still no one can tell us who is responsible for bad decisions. "Root and branch reviews" of quarantine and contact tracing programs seem to still lag behind the top standard

Victoria has taken roughly 90,000 fewer return travellers through hotel quarantine compared to NSW. That's a big number that just keeps growing.

If The Age reporting is accurate of the situation, the nebuliser was used (following discussion with at least one CQV worker) at the hot hotel designated for positives. Unfortunately, that seems emblematic of the standard being achieved by Vic.

I do wonder now how other States have been dealing with such devices or whether they just got lucky.

 

[Kendall Roy]

Well to cap off a thrilling weekend because of the huge outbreak in NZ, Australia has just closed the border again to NZ bursting the travel bubble.

Devils advocate: It shouldn't be reopened until NZ reciprocate. They can use a state-by-state/hotspot arrangement if necessary.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2021

 

[dajop]

I am the first to admit they are in a tough spot

But the mistakes keep coming and billions of dollars and several inquires later, still no one can tell us who is responsible for bad decisions. "Root and branch reviews" of quarantine and contact tracing programs seem to still lag behind the top standard

Victoria has taken roughly 90,000 fewer return travellers through hotel quarantine compared to NSW. That's a big number that just keeps growing.

I am struggling to understand
1) Since October Victoria contract tracing has worked very well - shutting down Chadstone, Shepparton, Kilmore, Preston and Black Rock outbreaks. Why is it not working so well this time?
2) You've had outbreaks from quarantine in every state in Australia, multiple in Sydney, and also multiple in NZ. Their quarantine systems, by this measure seem no better than Victoria.

Yet Victoria has this outbreak and it gets all over the city. It's got into the wrong wrong demographic again who have a knack of spreading it far and wide.

Or is just Vic Health in that part of Melbourne has some truly deep ingrained problems?

Also, a tangential question, have there been any HQ outbreaks from newer hotels? There may well have been, but the ones that spring to mind are all quite old buildings ... The HI MEL airport , the Rydges on Swanston, the Grand Chancellor in Brisbane, the Four Points in Perth etc. All rebranded and renovated but older buildings.

 

[OATEK]

I am struggling to understand
1) Since October Victoria contract tracing has worked very well - shutting down Chadstone, Shepparton, Kilmore, Preston and Black Rock outbreaks. Why is it not working so well this time?
2) You've had outbreaks from quarantine in every state in Australia, multiple in Sydney, and also multiple in NZ. Their quarantine systems, by this measure seem no better than Victoria.

Yet Victoria has this outbreak and it gets all over the city. It's got into the wrong wrong demographic again who have a knack of spreading it far and wide.

Or is just Vic Health in that part of Melbourne has some truly deep ingrained problems?

Also, a tangential question, have there been any HQ outbreaks from newer hotels? There may well have been, but the ones that spring to mind are all quite old buildings ... The HI MEL airport , the Rydges on Swanston, the Grand Chancellor in Brisbane, the Four Points in Perth etc. All rebranded and renovated but older buildings.

All good questions.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I am struggling to understand
1) Since October Victoria contract tracing has worked very well - shutting down Chadstone, Shepparton, Kilmore, Preston and Black Rock outbreaks. Why is it not working so well this time?
2) You've had outbreaks from quarantine in every state in Australia, multiple in Sydney, and also multiple in NZ. Their quarantine systems, by this measure seem no better than Victoria.

Yet Victoria has this outbreak and it gets all over the city. It's got into the wrong wrong demographic again who have a knack of spreading it far and wide.

Or is just Vic Health in that part of Melbourne has some truly deep ingrained problems?

Also, a tangential question, have there been any HQ outbreaks from newer hotels? There may well have been, but the ones that spring to mind are all quite old buildings ... The HI MEL airport , the Rydges on Swanston, the Grand Chancellor in Brisbane, the Four Points in Perth etc. All rebranded and renovated but older buildings.

Good questions.

But it seems a bit of an own goal with nebulisers and allegedly not testing when symptomatic

Both Melbourne and Sydney have problematic demographics. The number for this Melbourne one is still under 15 and Berala got to about 30 perhaps.

 

[Lynda2475]

The number for this Melbourne one is still under 15 and Berala got to about 30 perhaps.

But NSW didnt put an entire state into lockdown and fail to notify venue attendees within 48 hours. Its about a proportionate response and trusting systems to close down outbreaks.

When Berala happened NSW wasnt testing HQ transport drivers daily (now they are) but Vic was already testing HQ workers daily when this latest outbreak, although the reults for the one who attended the Coburg function was misinterpreted as negative wnd now shown to have been a weak positive.

Also telling that there is a discrepancy between patient zero and HQ operators. Per the article i posted last night, VIc need to stop panicking about the strain of covid tge person has and concentrate on what they can control which is procedure. This outbreak hasnt happened because its the UK strain, its happened because of a failure in safe working practices i.e staff not wearing fitted N95 masks aand eye protection in high risk setting, mixed messaging re nebulizer use, failure to test returnees upon onset of symptoms, incorrectly interpreted staff test results etc.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Ive had a busy say so didnt watch Vic presser today, but on The Project they showed a clip where Dan Andrews was calling on ScoMO and the Feds to reduce international arrivals across the board in all states by 50% or more, and consider only accepting those on the most serious companssionate grounds because of the UK and South African strains.

Absolutely appalling to suggest this course of action, when he made speical conessions to accomodate 1200 AO partcipants and crew. Australia has an obligation to allow Aussie Citizens (not foreign sportsball people or foreign celebrities) to come home, and yes there is also an obligation to keep wider communty safe too, but so much more that can be done in terms of better PPE, air filters/better ventilation before reducing arrivals down to 50% or less of current levels.

This thinking proves that Vic still have no confidence in their systems or the ability to improve them further.

Seriously struggling to see how how Victorians could possibly continue support Andrews. These new virus mutations may be more virulent but we have mostly managed well and Victoria should have learnt from past failings, not look to shirk the ability to allow aussies to return home, freight to be delivered, exports to be sent overseas etc.

We need to live with manageable risk.

Good question as to why the Vic Premier continues to have support. I guess it's a number of things... we're generally happy with the outcomes; we probably realise that despite the best intentions, a breach will happen (I think most of us have made or dealt with an error at work at some time?); the alternatives aren't appealing (the opposition has at various times advocated for no curfews, no lockdowns, no physical distancing restrictions for businesses); while the virus has been a major focus, there are plenty of other policy issues which need to be taken forward, and Victoria has chosen a progressive government for those purposes.

People are quick to criticise any further caps on arrivals... but why wasn't Howard Springs expanded 12 months ago? Just because another government or opposition is critical the whole time, what counts is solutions. Victoria is managing the AO, but ultimately it is the Federal Government that allowed players in.

 

[Pushka]

Victoria is managing the AO, but ultimately it is the Federal Government that allowed players in.

Except - The Federal Government doesn't now want to cut back bringing people back. And that approach has also been the policy from major Federal Labor politicians who have been (correctly) haranguing the Aus Govt for not bringing back people faster.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Except - The Federal Government doesn't now want to cut back bringing people back. And that approach has also been the policy from major Federal Labor politicians who have been (correctly) haranguing the Aus Govt for not bringing back people faster.

So everyone will be voting for a change of Government at Federal level? Obviously not... and perhaps it goes to illustrate the point that the choice of government is more than just individual issues... it's about the 'whole'.

 

[Must...Fly!]

So everyone will be voting for a change of Government at Federal level? Obviously not... and perhaps it goes to illustrate the point that the choice of government is more than just individual issues... it's about the 'whole'.

I don't think anyone without a conflict of interest is talking about a change of government.

But there has to be some sort of consequence for repeated errors, poor decision making, lack of accountability and policy swings. 3 weeks ago bringing 1,200 tennis players was fine and sold as completely necessary.

Risk profile has not changed one single bit since the Australian Open players came in on chartered flights and we are now being told that it's not safe to bring anyone in (not even citizens of Australia).

If that consequence is Andrews leaves office and there is a renewed belief and confidence in government to get things either done right that doesn't involve 6 million locked down for something NSW has been able to manage almost continuously (now with 3,000 return travelers per week!), then so be it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think anyone without a conflict of interest is talking about a change of government.

But there has to be some sort of consequence for repeated errors, poor decision making, lack of accountability and policy swings. 3 weeks ago bringing 1,200 tennis players was fine and sold as completely necessary.

Risk profile has not changed one single bit since the Australian Open players came in on chartered flights and we are now being told that it's not safe to bring anyone in (not even citizens of Australia).

If that consequence is Andrews leaves office and there is a renewed belief and confidence in government to get things either done right that doesn't involve 6 million locked down for something NSW has been able to manage almost continuously (now with 3,000 return travelers per week!), then so be it.

Not disagreeing. But I think there are equal arguments (pros and cons) that can be applied to every government, state and federal. Obviously the tipping point - to change - hasn't been reached for the majority of voters.

 

[jakeseven7]

I am struggling to understand
1) Since October Victoria contract tracing has worked very well - shutting down Chadstone, Shepparton, Kilmore, Preston and Black Rock outbreaks. Why is it not working so well this time?
2) You've had outbreaks from quarantine in every state in Australia, multiple in Sydney, and also multiple in NZ. Their quarantine systems, by this measure seem no better than Victoria.

Yet Victoria has this outbreak and it gets all over the city. It's got into the wrong wrong demographic again who have a knack of spreading it far and wide.

It’s too early to judge on most of this. Every case has been linked and all so far within the rings. Technically by the other states standards they all should be open as well / but it’s the MUTANT virus!!! So all rules are OUT on border closures

On the movement of people it’s well known that Melbourne is hyper connected relative to other cities, especially if we are comparing Sydney which is geographically and demographically locked up with poorer public transport connectivity and gridlocked roads if you want to leave your ‘zone’.

And even with this ‘advantage’ of being harder to move around the Sydney outbreak still spread all over the city as well.

I think the lockdown has a lot to do with last year and Melbourne populations refusal to go through it again, and the leaders know that.

Also because of last year Melbourne would not tolerate a Sydney style approach where an outbreak drags on for weeks and weeks as they slowly stamp it out. Personally I see nothing wrong with that approach but it won’t be tolerated here...

I’m in Melbourne (was enjoying the tennis lol) and every person I speak to is ‘yes it’s cough, but it’s expected and better do it now than later’.

I don’t really blame them.

And now NZ. Again. Sigh - it’s like a coughpy sequel to Groundhog Day.

 

[jakeseven7]

Just one new case and again enormous testing numbers for a Sunday....


EDIT: Good news, it was the mother of the child who has already tested positive, within the rings - and she had already tested a weak positive, so this case is known already just recorded officially now, so actually really its a ZERO!

 

[jakeseven7]

AZ rumoured to be approved today....

Well GH didn’t mention it so maybe not bummer

 

[Must...Fly!]

AZ rumoured to be approved today....

Brilliant news if it does happen!

 

[dajop]

VIc need to stop panicking about the strain of covid tge person has and concentrate on what they can control which is procedure. This outbreak hasnt happened because its the UK strain, its happened because of a failure in safe working practices i.e staff not wearing fitted N95 masks aand eye protection in high risk setting, mixed messaging re nebulizer use, failure to test returnees upon onset of symptoms, incorrectly interpreted staff test results etc.

Although these aren’t problems unique to Victoria. My experience with NSW quarantine it was also clear that (the provided surgical) masks weren’t even being worn by security and not a pair of protective glasses in sight. And that also extended to police and armed services - when waiting to leave airport on the bus I counted 4 police/armed services folk (out of 12) not wearing masks (and no one wearing eye protection). Airline crew had both levels of protection though, so at least someone somewhere is thinking about it .... just not in government

I wonder (just speculating) if the people im charge of infection control are just too used to the paradigm of infection control being about preventing infection of “patients” from something the staff might be carrying rather than the other way around. (But it shouldn’t be, surely there are always concerns about infectious patients infecting staff?). It just amazes me that my company at the start of the pandemic moved instantly to N95 masks and a little bit later added eye protection at all of our manufacturing facilities (based on advice of workplace health and safety group) yet 12 months in our Departments of Health have no such mandates for those working in hotel quarantine.

 

[jakeseven7]

Although these aren’t problems unique to Victoria. My experience with NSW quarantine it was also clear that (the provided surgical) masks weren’t even being worn by security and not a pair of protective glasses in sight. And that also extended to police and armed services - when waiting to leave airport on the bus I counted 4 police/armed services folk (out of 12) not wearing masks (and no one wearing eye protection). Airline crew had both levels of protection though, so at least someone somewhere is thinking about it .... just not in government

Agreed, not unique anywhere in our little 'elimination' bubble.... NZ (multiple times), NSW (multiple times), SA, WA, QLD.
Breaches breaches everywhere and will continue to happen for months and months... well as long as HQ exists really.

 

[jakeseven7]

Looks like next National Cabinet might be interesting with both QLD and VIC pushing for more remote quarantine facilities.

——

Victorian government contemplating setting up a remote quarantine facility​

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews said the state government was in a “number of discussions” about setting up a remote quarantine facility for returning Australians.

He said no decision had been made but some sites had been identified where there was a large amount of space and an international airport nearby.

“That could work well for, say, charter flights, where the Australian government can direct those flights to land wherever they choose.“

“We are working on a whole range of different issues, just like [Queensland Premier] Annastacia [Palaszczuk] is working on the Toowoomba option. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion at national cabinet.”

As it happened: First Pfizer vaccine doses arrive in Australia as Victoria records one local COVID-19 case, lockdown continues

The New Zealand travel bubble was suspended late on Sunday following new COVID-19 cases in Auckland. The latest Johns Hopkins University data shows there have been 108.7 million confirmed cases since the start of the pandemic and almost 2.4 million deaths.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Lynda2475]

Didn't claim the problem was unique to Victoria. Doesn't change fact that strain is irrelevant the quality of PPE in use (or lack there of), failure of protocols is what is leading to leaks. Focus on improving those (better equipment better training/audit) acknowledging that people are people and breaches may still happen and don't lock down whole state because there was a mistake resulting in a handful of community cases.

Track/trace exposures then only restrict lock down those at genuine risk of exposure. As there have been no mystery cases this round zero need to lock down a whole state especially not those in regional areas.