Australian Reports of the Virus Spread

[33kft]

But on the other hand, this may sound harsh, but perhaps businesses that are "financially ruined" by a 3 day lockdown, were marginal in the first place

Maybe, but that doesn't speak to those who had weddings, funerals, medical procedures, holidays, etc etc planned over the lockdown period. How long could/should we continue to make all planning tentative for going forward?

 

[jase05]

14 new cases in HQ over the last 24hrs in Adelaide

 

[henrus]

So Hunt declares the “outbreak” under control before the three day lockdown is even over. Does anyone honestly still think this lockdown was justified?

It's a double-edged knife, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

So if WA is anything like Victoria, I reckon a lockdown is absolutely necessary. I don't think people are willing, or able, to manage physical distancing and other virus prevention methods.

WA seems to pretend that COVID never existed, in the last 6 months I've been to every state/territory except VIC and they (WA) were the worst. Hardly anyone signs in to places and a complete lack of social distancing.

 

[dajop]

Maybe, but that doesn't speak to those who had weddings, funerals, medical procedures, holidays, etc etc planned over the lockdown period. How long could/should we continue to make all planning tentative for going forward?

Oh agree totally, but the original comment was about financially ruined businesses. Although how many people would have anything other than emergency medical procedures booked in for a long weekend?

 

[oz_mark]

I don't want to defend the lockdown, it did seem over the top for the situation at hand. But on the other hand, this may sound harsh, but perhaps businesses that are "financially ruined" by a 3 day lockdown, were marginal in the first place, at a time when borrowing has never been cheaper? Moreso in WA which has been largely free of restrictions now for 10 months, as opposed to say Victoria's recent 5 day lockdown which dealt a blow on top a horrific four months in the second half of 2020 (although conversely those 4 months definitely wiped out thousands of marginal businesses ... ).

Perth had a lockdown earlier this year as well. I suspect that some businesses may not have survived this time - especially since there is no Jobkeeper this time around. Not big numbers of businesses, but I think a few

 

[dajop]

Perth had a lockdown earlier this year as well. I suspect that some businesses may not have survived this time - especially since there is no Jobkeeper this time around. Not big numbers of businesses, but I think a few

I guess we won't know for some time until this is all behind us. But there are of course a certain proportion of businesses that go bankrupt every year, much to the pain of their owners, so it's a bit like deaths vs excess deaths due to COVID, the measure not being bankruptcies - but excess bankruptcies.

 

[Must...Fly!]

He is also saying that Cricketers and Athletes travelling to play sport not essential, I actually agree with him there (maybe a first), traveling to play in IPL or to attend the Olympics seems misguided given escalating cases numbers in India and Japan.

I disagree. That is their choice of job, who is the government to make you unemployed when gainful employment exists, and there are procedures to follow to keep the wider community safe on return (charged to the user)? These are people earning money and paying tax in this country, not freeloaders.

Oh agree totally, but the original comment was about financially ruined businesses. Although how many people would have anything other than emergency medical procedures booked in for a long weekend?

OK so my comment was hyperbolic if taken literally but I think most would understand the my point in the context.

 

[jase05]

On Sunday, ANZAC day, the stores opened here in Victoria at 1pm. Hundreds of people, crowded, jostling, no masks, no physical distancing. I mean not even a token attempt at distancing. I didn't see anyone use the hand sanitiser on entry or departure. There was no wiping of self-service kiosks after use by staff.

I was one of the 78,900 at the MCG yesterday and spent close to 20 minutes trying to get in

 

[Pushka]

Isn’t permission to leave fairly automatic if you are going overseas for more than 3 months?

Not anymore. There has also to be a compelling reason for travel NOW. Changed in November.

Post automatically merged: Apr 26, 2021

14 new cases in HQ over the last 24hrs in Adelaide

And no restriction on flights from India as they come in through Doha on QR.

 

[jase05]

Not anymore. There has also to be a compelling reason for travel NOW. Changed in November.

Post automatically merged: Apr 26, 2021

And no restriction on flights from India as they come in through Doha on QR.

The medi hotel is near capacity and I believe the state government is frantically trying to source other options for the overflow of the current trend continues.
I would imagine at National cabinet tomorrow they will seriously look at halting arrivals from India

 

[Lynda2475]

PR and dual citizens can be prevented from leaving - they have to follow the same criteria as Aussie citizens (apply for an exemption).

If you hold citizenship for somewhere else its really hard for Aus Govt to prove you aren't leaving permanently or a for a long period, as you dont need a visa or job lined up or even a lease to return to the country of your citizenship. You just say your are staying with family.

I know 4 people who have left by claiming they were travelling to care for a loved one and also have a friend that went to Greek islands for a "medical procedure", all said very easy to leave because of their EU passports. Of those 5 only one was away longer than 8 weeks, the others managed to get commercial flights back as needed.

Whilst Aus govt could potentially restrict a dual citizen, Im not sure they can actually stop a PR from leaving, they can of course cancel their residency visa to stop them from coming back (a threat that would bet a better deterrent for unnecessary travel than fines that they will never pay)..

I hope the article is correct in that its now much tougher for them to leave now.

Was also talking to ex-colleague earlier today from my previous employer who said with the new return to office minimum of 2 days a week policy in Melbourne office , it became apparent a number of the team had gone to India to escape Melbourne Lockdown last winter, were working remotely from India (whilst pretending to be wfh in Melbourne to keep Aussie salary), and employer only found out when they had to admit they couldnt attend the office last month.

That is their choice of job, who is the government to make you unemployed when gainful employment exists, and there are procedures to follow to keep the wider community safe on return (charged to the user)? These are people earning money and paying tax in this country, not freeloaders.

Well apparently IPL players are calling for govt sponsored repatriation flights to get home now, when they knowingly opted to go to the country with the worst infection rate. I dont see why tax papers should subside their poor judgement. And just how much of their overseas IPL salaries are taxed here in Australia?

WRT Olympic Athletes they don't pay their own way to get to the games or to quarantine on return, tax payers foot the bill for them (and all the hangers on).

 

[Pushka]

If you hold citizenship for somewhere else its really hard for Aus Govt to prove you aren't leaving permanently or a for a long period, as you dont need a visa or job lined up or even a lease to return to the country of your citizenship. You just say your are staying with family.

I know 4 people who have left by claiming they were travelling to care for a loved one and also have a friend that went to Greek islands for a "medical procedure", all said very easy to leave because of their EU passports. Of those 5 only one was away longer than 8 weeks, the others managed to get commercial flights back as needed.

Whilst Aus govt could potentially restrict a dual citizen, Im not sure they can actually stop a PR from leaving, they can of course cancel their residency visa to stop them from coming back (a threat that would bet a better deterrent for unnecessary travel than fines that they will never pay)..

I hope the article is correct in that its now much tougher for them to leave now.

Was also talking to ex-colleague earlier today from my previous employer who said with the new return to office minimum of 2 days a week policy in Melbourne office , it became apparent a number of the team had gone to India to escape Melbourne Lockdown last winter, were working remotely from India (whilst pretending to be wfh in Melbourne to keep Aussie salary), and employer only found out when they had to admit they couldnt attend the office last month.



Well apparently IPL players are calling for govt sponsored repatriation flights to get home now, when they knowingly opted to go to the country with the worst infection rate. I dont see why tax papers should subside their poor judgement. And just how much of their overseas IPL salaries are taxed here in Australia?

WRT Olympic Athletes they don't pay their own way to get to the games or to quarantine on return, tax payers foot the bill for them (and all the hangers on).

Given their IPL salaries, it has to be their coin. They are not representing Australia. They travelled overseas just a few weeks ago.

 

[I love to travel]

This hotel quarantine madness has got to stop. Will someone please step up and show some leadership. Our current approach is not working and we need to change it.

 

[Lynda2475]

They travelled overseas just a few weeks ago.

Which was really dumb given what was already happening at the time, so up to them to find their own way home at their own expense. No queue jumping on repatriation flights.

 

[Pushka]

Which was really dumb given what was already happening at the time, so up to them to find their own way home at their own expense. No queue jumping on repatriation flights.

I'd suggest no repatriation flights from India as clearly people have been travelling across during the midst of the pandemic. I would expect/hope that only those who went to India pre say April May last year would be eligible.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If you hold citizenship for somewhere else its really hard for Aus Govt to prove you aren't leaving permanently or a for a long period, as you dont need a visa or job lined up or even a lease to return to the country of your citizenship. You just say your are staying with family.

I know 4 people who have left by claiming they were travelling to care for a loved one and also have a friend that went to Greek islands for a "medical procedure", all said very easy to leave because of their EU passports. Of those 5 only one was away longer than 8 weeks, the others managed to get commercial flights back as needed.

Whilst Aus govt could potentially restrict a dual citizen, Im not sure they can actually stop a PR from leaving, they can of course cancel their residency visa to stop them from coming back (a threat that would bet a better deterrent for unnecessary travel than fines that they will never pay)..

I hope the article is correct in that its now much tougher for them to leave now.

Permanent residents are subject to the same exit restrictions as Australian citizens, the latter which includes dual citizens. You cannot leave unless you have been granted an exemption: Leaving Australia | COVID-19 and the border

If people are gaming the system like you describe it could potentially make it harder for genuine cases needing to go.

But that said, while non-residents can come and go freely, it's a but unfair to restrict PR and citizens.

 

[N860CR]

It's a double-edged knife, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Not really. It's achieved nothing. The outbreak has been announced as "under control" at a time when people potentially exposed are probably in the early stages of infection and will likely be contagious after the lockdown ends tonight.

It's been said time and time again that snap three day lockdowns achieve nothing. If they're genuinely concerned, it needs to be 2 weeks.

We've proven yet again that the supposedly highly contagious new strain may not quite be as contagious as thought, and when controlled and managed in the community, it's not a particularly big deal.

 

[jonboixxx]

It's been said time and time again that snap three day lockdowns achieve nothing.

It buys time for the contact tracers, since most Premiers are panicked by a few cases; they do not want to be the next Dan. For McGowan to intimate that lockdown does anything else is disingenuous.

 

[N860CR]

It buys time for the contact tracers, since most Premiers are panicked by a few cases; they do not want to be the next Dan. For McGowan to intimate that lockdown does anything else is disingenuous.

It's amazing that "buying time for contact tracers" is genuinely considered an acceptable reason for locking down an entire city. Then again, we live in the country where councils and governments cry poor and "understaffed" despite being the highest funded in the world, and the public buys that as well

 

[Lynda2475]

The states that do 3 day lockdowns have inadequate contract tracing resources, and dont trust their systems to be able to contact close contacts of 2 linked people in the community.

As the guy had been out in the community infectious for 5+ days before testing positive (something that could have been reduced if they tested him on departure day like the east coast does), the spread will have already occured.

Im glad that NSW would never have a 3 day city wide lock down due to 2 (non mystery) positives.