Avianca "Lifemiles" - Questions and Discussion

[VAG newbie]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

So I contacted LM a couple of times and asked why I could not get a linked flight Oceana to Asia.. I was told that I had to book the flights separately (and pay for each segment),,, after some discussion I was told I could link the flights but would have to pay 60% using the miles I already have (discounted rate ,, essentially $150 per 10000) ,, and 40% using their more money option,, which used to be at the discounted rate but is now at the full rate ,,, $300 per 10000 miles.

What kind of b******t is that from LM? It makes absolutely no sense at all. But that is the problem. LM is their currency and they can do whatever they want with it and we can't do anything about it!

That being said - connections are still almost non-existent, and most (all?) of the ones that are showing return an 'error' message when you attempt to proceed. (I was getting some results today for MEL-NRT using AI/NH connecting in DEL).

I think LM is really clamping down on these crazy connections to avoid further "hidden city" trick. While they "fixed" this, they killed the reasonable connection via BKK.

The manual booking process, while it worked well for me, seems to be getting harder and somewhat uncertain.

We can always try, but I guess our hope should be low now......

But not all is lost. Some connections still work, and they are legitimate! But maybe we shouldn't reveal these routes any more otherwise LM will kill them one by one. We should just play with the search engine and see what works for each of us! At least for me I know I will use it for ANA and Asiana first class to burn it and that will be it for me with LM.

 

[anat0l]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

It's variable - the first couple of blocks of 1000 miles will cost the full whack (~$30 per 1000), but as you progress down the scale it gradually reduces to the sweet spot (just a few cents per 1000), and then remains at $15 per 1000 after that.

It's not "a few cents per 1000" points, the lowest point is $15 per 1000 (or 1.5c per point). It goes up a bit when you get to the lower end of minimum points. The ideal points required is around 50% of the all-points cost.

If it was a mere few cents per 1000 at the sweet spot, you can imagine how many people will be absolutely banging the award system. In some cases, you wouldn't even care much about non-connected awards - just book them separate, allow plenty of time and you'll still be ahead in points compared to the all-points cost (let alone the cash investment).

Unless AV LM have changed the algorithm again...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

It's not "a few cents per 1000" points, the lowest point is $15 per 1000 (or 1.5c per point).

It is actually just a few cents per 1000 miles for several block of 1000 miles.

Of course, that averages out to $15 per 1000 - it starts at $33 and works down, and at the sweet spot, each 1000 miles will cost a few cents. Otherwise you'd never reach $15 per thousand.

In fact - at one point in the matrix they actually pay you in free miles!

Example on a 40K award:

29000 miles and $224.04
28000 miles and 226.29}
27000 miles and 227.04} 'free miles' in this range
26000 miles and 226.92}
25000 miles and 226.67

 

[anat0l]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

It is actually just a few cents per 1000 miles for several block of 1000 miles.

Of course, that averages out to $15 per 1000 - it starts at $33 and works down, and at the sweet spot, each 1000 miles will cost a few cents. Otherwise you'd never reach $15 per thousand.

...which is the most important thing and least potential to mislead. Otherwise you meant to discuss the relative incremental cost.

People do not buy distinct blocks of 1,000 miles in isolation at different prices in a miles+cash redemption. They buy it as a total package (as they are able to tweak it) so they buy, for example, half the miles required at a rate of approximately $15 per 1000 miles purchased.

 

[extracta]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

I have just checked the more money option ,,, two days ago it was $270US per 10000 points ,,, Today it has changed and is showing $217 for the first 10000 and then $300 for the first 20000 ,,, So things seem to be a bit fluid there at the moment.

 

[anat0l]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

I have just checked the more money option ,,, two days ago it was $270US per 10000 points ,,, Today it has changed and is showing $217 for the first 10000 and then $300 for the first 20000 ,,, So things seem to be a bit fluid there at the moment.

When you use the miles+cash option to make a redemption, it is not a straight linear formula which determines how much you pay for the points you purchase at that instant.

As MEL_Traveller tried to explain, the first few 1,000 mile blocks are charged at near the full purchase rate of $33 per 1,000. As you increase the miles purchased (versus miles redeemed) the incremental cost for further 1,000 mile blocks decreases, which also decreases the average cost of miles purchased. Eventually, if you purchase about 50% of the miles required for the redemption (and use your current balance to redeem for the other 50% or so), the average cost will be about $15 per 1,000.

The precise formula for determining the costs has been published on this thread previously, but you probably won't be interested unless you are so inclined and you understand mathematics. (It hasn't been quite updated for the new cost of miles, but the idea is much the same).

 

[extracta]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

When you use the miles+cash option to make a redemption, it is not a straight linear formula which determines how much you pay for the points you purchase at that instant.

I am aware of that , I have booked a lot of LM in the past,. But what I am trying to explain is that a few days ago it did change to a straight line ,, $300 per 10000 ,,, it has changed again since then ,,, also I just checked some flights out of SYD and notice that they are still linking flights with Asiana (possibly some other airlines also) ,, But are not linking with TG that I can see

 

[anat0l]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

I am aware of that , I have booked a lot of LM in the past,. But what I am trying to explain is that a few days ago it did change to a straight line ,, $300 per 10000 ...

If it changed to a straight line of $300 per 10000 (same as $30 per 1000) then that means all of the redemptions would have been quite expensive (and the same "rate" no matter what % of points you use). Either that is (was) a massive bug or you're reading into this incorrectly.

Note that the price rate ($ per miles purchased) is not dependent on absolute miles bought, but it is the % of miles bought versus redeemed. This means when you look up different awards to different zones incurring different mileage costs, the cost of 10000 miles may not be consistent.

 

[VAG newbie]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

But are not linking with TG that I can see

No, not all TGs. Some TG connection are still ok, which we have already discussed. But I can understand why they are clamping down connection to North Asia, as their award chart has inadvertently made is cheaper than SE Asia for first class, I believe they've noticed this mistake.

Overall it make sense. In your case for F award to HKG costs 50k in F normally. So what they've done is allow you to use 60% of miles (ie. 30k miles) at 1.5cents each, and 40% at 3c each (20k miles at 3 cents, or 40k miles at 1.5 cents) which is effectively 70k miles. That is just 10k more than SYD-BKK.

Initially my reaction was LM is full of cough, but on second thought, it probably makes more sense to LM (and reasonable) to charge extra 10k for that extra leg. Which come to think of it, is still good value......

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

No, not all TGs. Some TG connection are still ok, which we have already discussed. But I can understand why they are clamping down connection to North Asia, as their award chart has inadvertently made is cheaper than SE Asia for first class, I believe they've noticed this mistake.

Overall it make sense. In your case for F award to HKG costs 50k in F normally. So what they've done is allow you to use 60% of miles (ie. 30k miles) at 1.5cents each, and 40% at 3c each (20k miles at 3 cents, or 40k miles at 1.5 cents) which is effectively 70k miles. That is just 10k more than SYD-BKK.

Initially my reaction was LM is full of cough, but on second thought, it probably makes more sense to LM (and reasonable) to charge extra 10k for that extra leg. Which come to think of it, is still good value......

Nth Asia and South Asia are both equidistant from Australia. Bangkok is 9.15 hours, and so is Hong Kong and tokyo another 5 mins or so. It's the same award pricing on LM as we have on USDM. AA charges a few extra miles for Japan.

SE Asia should be made cheaper to be in line with Nth Asia.

 

[uniq_angela]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

That being said - connections are still almost non-existent, and most (all?) of the ones that are showing return an 'error' message when you attempt to proceed. (I was getting some results today for MEL-NRT using AI/NH connecting in DEL).

The manual booking process, while it worked well for me, seems to be getting harder and somewhat uncertain.

Hi.
I am wondering when mel-nrt is available. I tried searching last few days but nothing appeared. I tried any mel-tokyo from sep for biz class. Pkease share your tips. Thanks!

 

[VAG newbie]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

Hi.
I am wondering when mel-nrt is available. I tried searching last few days but nothing appeared. I tried any mel-tokyo from sep for biz class. Pkease share your tips. Thanks!

You must've been away for a while. Read some of the posts in the last month or so, you will know why.

Basically LM is playing up (maybe intentionally) that all connection to N. Asia and some connection to Europe via BKK on TG is all gone despite that you can still see award space on each leg separately, or in other sites such as UA and ANA. It just won't show up on LM search engine.

The way around it is to take the screenshots to prove that seats are available, email LM. Initially people have had some success but recently it looks like LM is not booking it manually now.

 

[uniq_angela]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

in fact, i read all of post about reaching N.Asia and tried searching mel-bkk, mel-sin, mel-pvg, mel-pek and to connet nrt/hnd. however, i cannot find any connection between them within 8 hours, only found some economic of singapore air.... so there is the only way to search again and again till finding what I love?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

You must've been away for a while. Read some of the posts in the last month or so, you will know why.

Basically LM is playing up (maybe intentionally) that all connection to N. Asia and some connection to Europe via BKK on TG is all gone despite that you can still see award space on each leg separately, or in other sites such as UA and ANA. It just won't show up on LM search engine.

The way around it is to take the screenshots to prove that seats are available, email LM. Initially people have had some success but recently it looks like LM is not booking it manually now.

it's not just connections to north asia, it's south asia as well. Even if the argument is that north asia is incorrectly priced, it doesn't explain why south asia connections are also off-line.

in fact, i read all of post about reaching N.Asia and tried searching mel-bkk, mel-sin, mel-pvg, mel-pek and to connet nrt/hnd. however, i cannot find any connection between them within 8 hours, only found some economic of singapore air.... so there is the only way to search again and again till finding what I love?

there are some connections showing on LM to tokyo - as I mentioned above it returns a result of MEL-DEL-NRT flying Air india and All Nippon (DEL arrives around 5.30pm, and connections are around midnight). However - even if you find one of those, they are likely to return an 'error' screen once you click 'continue'.

 

[uniq_angela]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

thank you for your tips. i still keep searching and watching on it. my partner does not want to fly with air india...
If i found and got good news, i definately share here with you all. cheers,

 

[MEL_Traveller]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

thank you for your tips. i still keep searching and watching on it. my partner does not want to fly with air india...
If i found and got a good news, i definately share here with you all. cheers,

well... slim pickings might mean air India is one of the few options available. they are above thai airways in terms of comfort (air India clearly wins with full flat beds) and their food and service is pretty much on par with thai. airport wise delhi and bangkok are dead evenly matched (with the 'new' airport in delhi).

 

[VAG newbie]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

it's not just connections to north asia, it's south asia as well. Even if the argument is that north asia is incorrectly priced, it doesn't explain why south asia connections are also off-line.

I know, it doesn't make sense! The other day I actually found award seats on J BNE-SIN via TPE on EVA! So going to SE Asia via N Asia is possible, but not the other way round? I was just trying to rationalize why LM customer service would charge more. But as far as the search engine is concerned, there is no logic!

there are some connections showing on LM to tokyo - as I mentioned above it returns a result of MEL-DEL-NRT flying Air india and All Nippon (DEL arrives around 5.30pm, and connections are around midnight). However - even if you find one of those, they are likely to return an 'error' screen once you click 'continue'.

Take a screen shot and get LM to ticket it manually. This one they can't charge you extra miles as it clearly shows 40000 miles (or whatever miles plus cash you want, take a screenshot, they have to honor it). But why would anyone want to transit in India to go to Tokyo? It's like 27hrs of traveling time!

 

[bcworld]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

TG news / speculation:

National airline to downsize and reduce routes - The Nation

The rehabilitation plan will see its workforce slashed from 25,000 to 20,000.

The BangkokJohannesburg route was already cancelled on January 15 and the BangkokMadrid, BangkokMoscow, BangkokLos Angeles routes are likely to be axed in the second quarter of this year.

Decisions on routes that do not make a profit but are considered to have potential will be made in the fourth quarter. They include Bangkok-Rome, Bangkok-Milan, Bangkok-Brussels, Bangkok-Brisbane, Bangkok-Sapporo, Bangkok-Colombo, Bangkok-Denpasar and Bangkok-Hyderabad.

Under the rehabilitation plan, THAI’s fleet will also be revised. It will sell 22 old aircraft and decommission 14 Boeing 747-400 and Airbus A 340-600 craft.

 

[VAG newbie]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

TG news / speculation:

National airline to downsize and reduce routes - The Nation

It's making what is already bad to even worse.....

 

[anat0l]

re: Avianca "Life Miles" - Questions and Discussion

TG news / speculation:

National airline to downsize and reduce routes - The Nation

If BNE/BKK gets cut then that'll pretty much scupper viable longer-term plan options from BNE for Star Alliance redemptions, given that the only other viable option - SQ - has a close-in 14 day window only.

I'm surprised BKK/LAX was kept as long as it was. I didn't think they could be making money on that route. It was easier to find SQ Suites space to the USA than it was to find any premium TG space to LAX.

I wonder if the premium space will still be open slather despite the cuts. I mean, the pool will be smaller with the same number of people trying to get at it, but it would be even smaller again if TG actually tightened up how much space they were releasing.