BA Executive Club change to spend-based status earning

[moa999]

It remains distance based as before

Detail is important.
A lot less new TPs earned versus the new thresholds.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Eh? Taxes and fees are still there, it’s just they are excluded from the ticket price in terms of earning. If the fare is £100 but taxes and fees are £40, your only eligible earn is the £60. (carrier fees and surcharges *are* included in earning)

Doesn't seem fair collecting those amounts if they aren't being recognized towards status!

These changes - or similar at VA or QF - won’t affect them.

LCC doesn’t really work long haul, perhaps up to 8-10 hours. You can’t get to the mainland USA on a LCC from Australia for example. But to Singapore or Bangkok for example, I don’t think current QF, TG or SQ customers would switch to Air Asia simply because they stopped earning status.

You've clearly never flown long haul with United - home of the dirt cheap fares from Europe to Australia.

Detail is important.
A lot less new TPs earned versus the new thresholds.

In fairness we don't know all the details of the new program as at yet. For instance, what is the tier point accrual on British Airways flights when the customer choses to make it distance based instead of revenue based (i.e. by way of a speciality ticket).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Doesn't seem fair collecting those amounts if they aren't being recognized towards status!

Taxes and airport fees don’t contribute to BA’s bottom line. It’s a bit mean to carve them out I guess, but for someone regularly flying premium across the atlantic they’d be in the thousands of pounds a year.

 

[RooFlyer]

QF is still looking good - for now.

‘For now’ being the operative bit.

It might be interesting in a year or so when more Airlines including Qantas go to a revenue based model or variations on that and comparisons between programs will be much more obvious. Will they finesse their thresholds to attract spend based on a lower elite-qualifying thresholds For a global elite seeking market?

 

[SYD]

‘For now’ being the operative bit.

It might be interesting in a year or so when more Airlines including Qantas go to a revenue based model or variations on that and comparisons between programs will be much more obvious. Will they finesse their thresholds to attract spend based on a lower elite-qualifying thresholds For a global elite seeking market?

As mentioned up thread, QF already have spend based recognition. Extra credit flying QF and then more the higher you spend (fare base). Less earn on partners. VA have adopted a similar approach but imposed a minimum VA flying requirement that QF only imposes on P1.

Big spenders on the ground get PC/PC+. Do any other airlines have an equivalent parallel “status” scheme?

Perhaps PC/PC+ might start to earn actual FF status if they did change?

 

[BrianQQ]

In fairness we don't know all the details of the new program as at yet. For instance, what is the tier point accrual on British Airways flights when the customer choses to make it distance based instead of revenue based (i.e. by way of a speciality ticket).

Yes. In some cases, where the fare paid is unavailable or hasn’t been disclosed, you'll earn Tier Points based on a percentage of miles flown. The cabin and booking class will also be considered, as shown in the table below.

 

[RooFlyer]

As mentioned up thread, QF already have spend based recognition.

But that’s just defacto, isn’t it? Still based on SCs earned on particular routes and classes of travel. There is a thread discussing whether Qantas is going to go to an actual revenue based model like VA has.

Sorry, I know this off-topic but I was wondering about global comparisons and arbitrage opportunities if more airlines go to a revenue-based model or a variation on it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But that’s just defacto, isn’t it? Still based on SCs earned on particular routes and classes of travel. There is a thread discussing whether Qantas is going to go to an actual revenue based model like VA has.

Sorry, I know this off-topic but I was wondering about global comparisons and arbitrage opportunities if more airlines go to a revenue-based model or a variation on it.

If airlines have determined they want to discourage low-yield pax, which other legacy airline is going to want them?

But looking at emirates, to get their platinum level you need 150k tier points. That’s just under three return first class tickets SYD-LHR. Or around $45k-$60k

To get their gold it would be just one flight in F, or two in business. Around $20k.

The points earn for discount economy return to London from Sydney is just 3200 tier miles. Not even close to earn their lowest level, silver, which requires 25k tier points.

Yet their planes are packed.

 

[SYD]

If airlines have determined they want to discourage low-yield pax, which other legacy airline is going to want them?

But looking at emirates, to get their platinum level you need 150k tier points. That’s just under three return first class tickets SYD-LHR. Or around $45k-$60k

To get their gold it would be just one flight in F, or two in business. Around $20k.

The points earn for discount economy return to London from Sydney is just 3200 tier miles. Not even close to earn their lowest level, silver, which requires 25k tier points.

Yet their planes are packed.

Including a lot of QFF’s on QF codes to/from Oz, that earn full SCs/points.

 

[SYD]

But that’s just defacto, isn’t it? Still based on SCs earned on particular routes and classes of travel. There is a thread discussing whether Qantas is going to go to an actual revenue based model like VA has.

Well, since “Simpler & Fairer” (TM) rolled out - but that was ~10 years ago!

 

[drron]

Would disagree with this notion. Many are feeling liberated with this change so expect BA loyalists to drop off to at least VS or someone in the Lufthansa Group.

With this change, loyalty is no longer being rewarded, so people would either fly the cheapest ticket, or the cheapest full service carrier ticket which in most instances is not BA.

If QF tries this, people would simply act the same. No one is going to be spending an extra $300 on QF if the goalposts were moved too far. People flying to SIN would simply just book SQ, JQ or TR, and so forth and so forth.

The problem as you said it is people your age that are only interested in price. I was that way when I was young. But then I got older and comfort is much more important. And unless medical science comes up with some magic people your age will also get older bringing in a new cohort of passengers for the legacy airlines.
But we all have to get used to it as the number of loyalty programs changing to a spend basis are steadily increasing in number and eventually there will be little choice.

 

[justinbrett]

‘For now’ being the operative bit.

It might be interesting in a year or so when more Airlines including Qantas go to a revenue based model or variations on that and comparisons between programs will be much more obvious. Will they finesse their thresholds to attract spend based on a lower elite-qualifying thresholds For a global elite seeking market?

But what’s the motivation for doing so?

For one, Qantas does not have the PR capital to burn to complete such a change. QF was often criticised for penalising partner earn, and the ridiculous number of levels of earning based on fare class (on its own metal). That looks much closer to where BA has just moved to, compared to what it was before.

With the exception of AA, QFF is one of the most commercialised programs with credit card and ground partners, and is a massive money spinner for them. If QF wanted to decrease the ranks of the elites it wouldn’t be doing DSC promos, but we had two this year so that doesn’t seem likely.

I’m sure there will be changes in the medium/long term, just as I’d guess some of the extreme changes at BA and VA will be rolled back in that time.

 

[Flashback]

Taxes and airport fees don’t contribute to BA’s bottom line. It’s a bit mean to carve them out I guess, but for someone regularly flying premium across the atlantic they’d be in the thousands of pounds a year.

Only with things like APD, other taxes are minimal. The biggest cost over the base fare are fuel surcharges, carrier fees etc. and they're included in the calc.

 

[serfty]

It's like COVID, that was liberating as I didn't need to worry about status renewal. Looking forward to it.

Status isn't worth much if flying premium anyway. I also have *A Gold and that is a waste of time ....

Of course, one status perk is free BA seat selection, even in Business class.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Only with things like APD, other taxes are minimal. The biggest cost over the base fare are fuel surcharges, carrier fees etc. and they're included in the calc.

Yes, but let’s look at some examples…

LHR-AMS one way in economy, 29 Jan: fare is £63, or which the base fare is £24, carrier surcharges £3.50… ADP £13, and airport/govt. fees are £23.32. So you’ll only get credited based on £27.50.

JAN 29 - FEB 12, basic economy LHR-JFK. £386.52 return. Of which the base fare and carrier surcharge are only £189. The rest is government taxes, airport fees, US safety and security etc.

For basic business class on the same dates the fare is £2777.52, of which the carrier gets a much much greater proportion at £2474.

 

[TonyHancock]

Well this has caused a stir big enough to awaken me from my FF slumber.

The fact is the "frequent flyer" is part of a "minority group" and as much as 120 pages of Flyertalk FF's threatening to take their business away from BA all looks rather frightening, my bet is that the changes will have virtually no negative impact on BA's bottom line.

The CCR will have fewer GL's in it but the majority of pax, from my experience, are flying F anyway so the impact will be minimal.

In the days when I flew the odd mile or two I am just the sort of BAEC member these changes were targeted at. In my annus horribilis of 9000+ TP's I (my company) spent something in the region of AUS$30k. I used ex OSL fares, paid upgrades into Europe, and exploited loopholes in the flaky IT system. I'm exactly the sort of FF BA does not want. It would be impossible for me under the new scheme.

After the furore dies down the very smart FF's will find the loopholes and tricks to beat the system, or they will move to another FF program and exploit that.

When QF introduced Simpler and Fairer, which proved complicated and inequitable I took stock and moved to BA and pursued Gold for Life. It took four and a half brutal years and hundreds of bottles of LPGS.

Now I await, with utter terror, BA tinkering with Gold for Life!

 

[Flashback]

Of course, one status perk is free BA seat selection, even in Business class.

Yet another reason to fly any carrier but BA...

 

[jase05]

Yet another reason to fly any carrier but BA...

BA aren’t alone in charging for seat selection in Business

 

[Flashback]

BA aren’t alone in charging for seat selection in Business

Sure, but it's not a lot. Plus most have 1 2 1 type layouts these days so less important. Unlike my old ying yang flight yesterday... in that instance I'd just fly someone else.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sure, but it's not a lot. Plus most have 1 2 1 type layouts these days so less important. Unlike my old ying yang flight yesterday... in that instance I'd just fly someone else.

True, but LH is introducing it for all but a few aisle seats with their new alegris configuration. And at the same time BA is moving to 1-2-1 anyway, with consistency across seats, so less of an issue.