BA Executive Club change to spend-based status earning

[jase05]

Sure, but it's not a lot. Plus most have 1 2 1 type layouts these days so less important. Unlike my old ying yang flight yesterday... in that instance I'd just fly someone else.

Perhaps but both myself and Mrs Jase refuse to sit in the middle and will only choose window seats so I’m not risking it and waiting until checkin to select seats. I will select seats the instant I book so either status covers the fee or I stump of the cash to select them

 

[moa999]

When QF introduced Simpler and Fairer, which proved complicated and inequitable I

Inequitable to who? Remember it's QF and BAs programme, not a general or oneworld program.

I'd argue BA have possibly even gone beyond what QF did.

The gnashing around the various forum is not unexpected (and very British).. but basically BA had created a program that was highly optimisable if you knew what you were doing, so its no surprise those folks gathered on FT to learn and share.
Certainly post Simpler fairer, fare less optimisation opportunities on QF.

While BA mightn't see much of an impact on their profitable transatlantic flights, losing a bunch of J flyers (or TP chasers) on cheaper secondary routes, or a bunch of people from Y, might be enough to tip some routes from Breakeven to loss making.

Remember even if all the profits come from up front, you still need to rely on the back of the bus being filled.

 

[TonyHancock]

Inequitable to who?

You will remember this thread, all 173 pages of it It will give you a non exhaustive list of those who thought it inequitable.

I'd argue BA have possibly even gone beyond what QF did.

I'd go one stage further and say it has absolutely gone beyond QF's simpler and fairer

The gnashing around the various forum is not unexpected (and very British)..

You will remember this thread, all 173 pages of it - it appears to be Australian too

Remember even if all the profits come from up front, you still need to rely on the back of the bus being filled.

I suspect there is a greater percentage in the back of the bus that know nothing about frequent flyer schemes or Avios. Although this may not be the case in Australia.

It is all part of the "battle" between the frequent flyers gaming the system and those managing the FF programs.

I guess my rambling post didn't really convey the message I wanted to get across.

Frequent Flyers are a small subset of the greater flying public and in many cases have less value to airlines than they think they have.

I loved playing the game when I was flying a few miles a year but I am out of it now. I know I had next to no value and so did QF and BA.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree. But this isn’t the end of FF programs… it’s the end of cheap status on BA where the cost of the status to the airline may outweigh the benefits.

‘back of the bus’ is important… but do they all need to be silver? The airline has done its numbers. And if they have got it wrong, wait for the ‘double TP’ promos!

 

[JessicaTam]

I agree. But this isn’t the end of FF programs… it’s the end of cheap status on BA where the cost of the status to the airline may outweigh the benefits.

‘back of the bus’ is important… but do they all need to be silver? The airline has done its numbers. And if they have got it wrong, wait for the ‘double TP’ promos!

BA have announced that the double TP BAH are here to stay BAH now earn TPs on the total spend, not just flights. So maybe we will be waiting for the 'triple TP' promos.

[edit: corrected BAH info]

 

[Princess Fiona]

BA have announced that the double TP BAH are here to stay. So maybe we will be waiting for the 'triple TP' promos.

Where have they announced that?
From my email link to the FAQs no more double TP from June 30th

 

[JessicaTam]

Where have they announced that?
From my email link to the FAQs no more double TP from June 30th
View attachment 423040

Sorry, I was misreading. TPs now earned on entire BAH spend not just flights. I have updated my post.

 

[Flashback]

Sorry, I was misreading. TPs now earned on entire BAH spend not just flights. I have updated my post.

IME though the hotel/car can often be minimal, hence why using it was good at times. I wonder how the taxes etc. are worked out there, or perhaps that's one of the better ways to instead book flights as you get everything?

 

[JessicaTam]

IME though the hotel/car can often be minimal, hence why using it was good at times. I wonder how the taxes etc. are worked out there, or perhaps that's one of the better ways to instead book flights as you get everything?

It is the total price, I believe, including all the +++. Unlike the nTP system which only includes carrier surcharges.

 

[skylabsea]

Well all good things must come to an end; can’t say I didn’t see this coming when they moved to spend based avios in 2022/3, although I am surprised at how aggressive the changes are. I can probably still qualify for OWE thru a yearly DONE4 but GfL is going to take double the time (was originally hoping to get it before 40)
The only solace is no more BA/IB qualifying flight requirement so I can totally avoid IAG now

 

[ermen]

Well this has caused a stir big enough to awaken me from my FF slumber.

The fact is the "frequent flyer" is part of a "minority group" and as much as 120 pages of Flyertalk FF's threatening to take their business away from BA all looks rather frightening, my bet is that the changes will have virtually no negative impact on BA's bottom line.

The CCR will have fewer GL's in it but the majority of pax, from my experience, are flying F anyway so the impact will be minimal.

In the days when I flew the odd mile or two I am just the sort of BAEC member these changes were targeted at. In my annus horribilis of 9000+ TP's I (my company) spent something in the region of AUS$30k. I used ex OSL fares, paid upgrades into Europe, and exploited loopholes in the flaky IT system. I'm exactly the sort of FF BA does not want. It would be impossible for me under the new scheme.

After the furore dies down the very smart FF's will find the loopholes and tricks to beat the system, or they will move to another FF program and exploit that.

When QF introduced Simpler and Fairer, which proved complicated and inequitable I took stock and moved to BA and pursued Gold for Life. It took four and a half brutal years and hundreds of bottles of LPGS.

Now I await, with utter terror, BA tinkering with Gold for Life!

You certainly weren't a loss making customer for them. qn is under the new rules, how much spend would you divert away from BA?

 

[ermen]

Silver (OWS) still seems fairly attainable for the premium leisure traveller - and it's probably what most aspire to with J lounge access and check-in. Even a BA Y road warrior could probably still get BAEC Silver.

I think BA have made a conscious decision to reserve Gold (OWE) only for the most profitable premium cabin customers (i.e. J pax getting F lounge access). Hence we also see it in the very steep jump in qualification from Silver to Gold. The rest of the BA Gold riff raff that are seemingly unprofitable (myself included), yet using F lounge facilities can get culled.

Question though does this back fire? Is a large % of BA Gold's simply unprofitable?

NB: For myself, I mainly get status via MH J runs and a whopping BA ticketed PER-SYD-SIN-HND-BKK return in J (the profit margin on that can't be that much ). I also do a lot of intra-Asia Y CX travel - so i'm probably using up BAEC's $ by flying accessing the F lounges there. Even with J travel, I get to go to the F lounge which costs BA $ as I understand it? So, with these changes I definitely won't be renewing status, and not sending a dime to IAG now though. (I guess if my profit margin < cost of going to the F lounge on other carriers, and they get rid of me, it's a win!)

 

[TonyHancock]

You certainly weren't a loss making customer for them. qn is under the new rules, how much spend would you divert away from BA?

BA has its own internal scoring system for BAEC members. If you are Gold you automatically get a certain score but you may have more value and actually have a higher score than plain gold. Same for GGL - my score never budged from the minimum score for GL. Over four years I took 250 flights on BA metal racking up 700,0000 miles (I flew 1,1 million miles in total over that period, so BA had the bulk of my spend) I never paid more that AUS4.5k for OSL-LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL return in J. The collection of GUF's and Jokers meant I flew F consistently in the last couple of years. In 2017 alone I spent 72 hours in the LHR CC room. BA made no profit from me at all.

I have no idea how I would deal with BA's new TP earning scheme. I was always a cheapskate as a FF so I would be all over FT and here looking for a sustainable FF program. As it is I am relatively relaxed I have BA GFL and use it for baggage, priority lines, and lounges. I stick to OW in my travels for that reason. Fortunately I fly a tenth of what I used to when I was working and actually realise that what I was doing was almost absurd.

If BA fiddles with GFL then I have QF LTG to fall back on.

 

[Flashback]

I have only a few weeks to make a decision (i.e., hold out to see whether any backtrack or promo is put forward / confirmation of soft landings).

I'm a Jan 8 end of year and from 1/4/24 - 31/3/25 I've earned 2,390 (GUF2 already triggered, as 2,730 earned since 8/1/24), so Gold is already in the bag for 25/26.

However, I have the following trips booked:
- Jan 25 - 640TP (mixture of AA/BA) - nTP not in flight
- Jun 25 - 440TP (mixture of RJ/QR, but all booked on RJ codes so I guess it means it'll all earn at 25% nTP based on mileage, rather than the QR sectors at 50%; so I put that as RJ FCO-AMM-DOH-CMB-DOH-AMM-FCO in D, 25% of 9,547 = 2,386 nTP, so not even Bronze.

If I work on the basis that there are no soft landings, with my first booking in the new period it won't even do bronze.

The way I see it, is I have an opportunity now to just divert all my credit from 9/1 (as I have a flight on 4/1 and will just send those 40TP to BAEC) to either QR, AY, IB (for commonality of Avios as a currency - noting that AY and IB are already revenue based earning), AS, or (god forbid) my original programme of QF. I would forgo the 2nd GUF2 that would trigger when my year end is realigned and I credit the 640TP Jan trip.

Decisions to be made and calcs to be run......... I should be able to at least earn Oneworld Sapphire with my bookings in another program from mid-Jan onwards, assuming any minimum carrier segment requirements can be met.

I'm only on 21k TP with BAEC, so nowhere near close enough to GFL to blindly just credit to BAEC/BAC going forward.

The irony is that my folks, who have never held status in their life, will earn 640TP each from 2x SH+ BAH when they come over from Aus to visit, which were booked pre-30/12 and therefore will convert to the same nTP which would give them silver.

 

[Mr Enthused]

As a moderate spend leisure traveller, maintaining OWE was relatively easy under the current system, but I am now looking at alternative programs.

LT OWE is now as ridiculously hard to reach as the QF equivalent, so where to from here?

Returning to QFF isn't an option when I fly a lot of OW partner airlines compared to EK.

Interestingly IB offer OWE status for 2 yrs, but OWS for 1 yr.

I don't even know if AY, IB, MH, or QR offer lifetime OWS or OWE either.

 

[jase05]

As a moderate spend leisure traveller, maintaining OWE was relatively easy under the current system, but I am now looking at alternative programs.

LT OWE is now as ridiculously hard to reach as the QF equivalent, so where to from here?

Returning to QFF isn't an option when I fly a lot of OW partner airlines compared to EK.

Interestingly IB offer OWE status for 2 yrs, but OWS for 1 yr.

I don't even know if AY, IB, MH, or QR offer lifetime OWS or OWE either.

AY offer lifetime OWS and OWE

I can’t imagine IB staying as it currently is either and would expect them to eventually fall on line with big brother

 

[clifford]

big brother

IB is the big brother (you hadn't noticed that IAG was Spanish?).

And 25% ownership by QR couldn't be a factor?

Just look at VA...

 

[moa999]

Definitely wouldn't be looking at IB
Oman program will likely change before oneworld entry, and also rumours about changes at Alaskan.

 

[jase05]

Definitely wouldn't be looking at IB
Oman program will likely change before oneworld entry, and also rumours about changes at Alaskan.

Have a UK based rellie who is in the Sinbad program as he works in Oman and he reckons it’s an absolutely terrible program

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I agree. But this isn’t the end of FF programs… it’s the end of cheap status on BA where the cost of the status to the airline may outweigh the benefits.

‘back of the bus’ is important… but do they all need to be silver? The airline has done its numbers. And if they have got it wrong, wait for the ‘double TP’ promos!

There is almost no such thing as a 'bad elite', especially in oneworld.
There are only 2 types of bad customers I can think of, and neither would warrant BA making the changes they did.

Silvers in the back of the bus..... consider this: would they fly BA if they didn't have status? Do those silvers have ba amex cards? Do they transfer avios in from banks? Do they fly more/spend more/do activities beyond a flyer who is equally active but with another airline?

The answer is yes.

But BA doesn't care.
The HfP article summarizes BA's changes perfectly (I'm paraphrasing) - that they're washing their hands of leisure travellers and going balls deep on corporate biz/first class pax.

Nothing wrong with that strategy.

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