Banned from QF (for a few months)

[JohnK]

I raise my hand to be the first hound! No - wait! JohnK beat me - will be the second.

And there we have it. You do agree with me occassionally.

 

[drron]

Dunno about the other UA pax, but a very different set of circumstances with Dr Dao. Unlike changing a seat, in his case there was no lawful reason to be denied a seat he had already occupied. (And no indication that he was abusive to any staff or security.)

But still an example where the problem was the staff not the pax.Not saying this is what happened here but I don't think it can be absolutely dismissed.

 

[OATEK]

I see these compensation discussions from a different perspective...and consider that they should perhaps be related to the cost of the fare. IFE is what, 5% of the value. It certainly isn’t a major component seeing that you’re actually buying travel?

With regard to seats though, they are actually all mine, and I need no agreement if I need someone moved.

And now that I’ve wound the clockwork up, I’ll release the hounds....

No one would wish to downplay the responsibilities you have in managing a huge aircraft with hundreds of passengers flying around the world. We rely on your judgement, and that extends to you making considered decisions about seating in terms of aircraft safety and management. After all we know that you have been a member here for a long time and know how much people have invested in the right seat to make the "travel" bearable. We know that you understand that couples being split on a plane for example, when one is a very nervous flyer, could lead to more problems than it solves. We trust that you make these decisions based on a very wide range of factors and not vicariously for the sake of a quick resolution.

We would like to think the staff working for you on that flight can be relied on the exercise similar judgement, but may of us have faced at one time or another staff that just seem to make decisions on a take it or leave it basis with little concern for the impact it may have on the passengers. Not often that this happens I agree, but I can think of several QF incidents where staff seemed uncaring and sadly these can stay with you much longer than the good moments.

 

[TonyHancock]

With regard to seats though, they are actually all mine, and I need no agreement if I need someone moved.

Excellent work. I think everyone will know who you are now.

 

[RichardMEL]

Well the VCAT document certainly puts a whole new(not unexpected) light on things. Very interesting

 

[JohnK]

No one would wish to downplay the responsibilities you have in managing a huge aircraft with hundreds of passengers flying around the world. We rely on your judgement, and that extends to you making considered decisions about seating in terms of aircraft safety and management. After all we know that you have been a member here for a long time and know how much people have invested in the right seat to make the "travel" bearable. We know that you understand that couples being split on a plane for example, when one is a very nervous flyer, could lead to more problems than it solves. We trust that you make these decisions based on a very wide range of factors and not vicariously for the sake of a quick resolution.

I vote that some airline staff usually want quick resolution which is why we have these issues come up often.

If a couple leaves their seating for a flight until check-in for whatever reason and they want to sit together then aim for 2 middle seats down the back not the popular bulkhead seats or exit row seats in front.

 

[Moody]

We are never going to find anything close to consent on the relative value of IFE. In reality it only has any value at all once you have safely reached your destination (Pilot's view), and is worth the proportion of the fare that the IFE costs to deliver (airlines' view).

Compensation for broken IFE? That is in the eye of the beholder. It also seems to attract random acts of contrition, depending on airline, class of travel, and of course the amount of whining the PAX musters.

In my opinion various cough happens with air travel, and if the plane broadly takes off and lands on time and at the right airport then that's fine by me. Occasional catering and IFE hiccups are neither here nor there IMHO, and all the caviar and 3D widescreens in the world would not get me to choose AF over QF.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We are never going to find anything close to consent on the relative value of IFE. In reality it only has any value at all once you have safely reached your destination (Pilot's view), and is worth the proportion of the fare that the IFE costs to deliver (airlines' view).

Compensation for broken IFE? That is in the eye of the beholder. It also seems to attract random acts of contrition, depending on airline, class of travel, and of course the amount of whining the PAX musters.

In my opinion various **** happens with air travel, and if the plane broadly takes off and lands on time and at the right airport then that's fine by me. Occasional catering and IFE hiccups are neither here nor there IMHO, and all the caviar and 3D widescreens in the world would not get me to choose AF over QF.

Personally I think failure of IFE is a token compensation. Jetstar which bundles these things charges $10 for IFE and $27 or whatever for a meal. That sounds about right to me. Anything more is a bonus. It’s not just about the compensation, it’s about getting the problem fixed, and the company recognising its failure to deliver.

On that basis I don’t necessarily agree we should dismiss all the small things. Nor am I sure the safety card trumps any accountability.

 

[JohnK]

Personally I think failure of IFE is a token compensation. Jetstar which bundles these things charges $10 for IFE and $27 or whatever for a meal. That sounds about right to me. Anything more is a bonus. It’s not just about the compensation, it’s about getting the problem fixed, and the company recognising its failure to deliver.

Token compensation could well be right but the airlines usually don't offer anything and you have to chase it up.

Class downgrades are also seen as worthy of token compensation. If I paid $6,000 to sit in business and downgraded to economy then I should be entitled to more than token compensation yet Qantas in particular gets away with providing very little. We've heard a few stories but how many just don't bother following up and accept the downgrade?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Token compensation could well be right but the airlines usually don't offer anything and you have to chase it up.

Class downgrades are also seen as worthy of token compensation. If I paid $6,000 to sit in business and downgraded to economy then I should be entitled to more than token compensation yet Qantas in particular gets away with providing very little. We've heard a few stories but how many just don't bother following up and accept the downgrade?

Yeah. Not following up on a downgrade is odd given the thousands of dollars difference in fare. But Qantas does a good job of trying to deny liability, or hide behind opaque ‘policy’, guess that puts some people off. EU261 with a 75% of the sector ticket price sounds about right.

 

[SOPOOR]

Token compensation could well be right but the airlines usually don't offer anything and you have to chase it up.

Class downgrades are also seen as worthy of token compensation. If I paid $6,000 to sit in business and downgraded to economy then I should be entitled to more than token compensation yet Qantas in particular gets away with providing very little. We've heard a few stories but how many just don't bother following up and accept the downgrade?

I like to cCompare it with eating at a restaurant.
You order a steak medium. It comes out wrong. They remake it for you correctly.

A good staff memebr will either give you a free drink or free steak or half price or free dessert or something

You still got the steak you ordered but you were inconvenienced by the extra wait time and ruining of the mood.

Hence this should naturally translate to downgrading
You still get the economy seat and the refund, but you've incurred inconvenice You should receive free meals, or a credit for next time or similar as a gesture

A little gesture goes a long way especially when. The gestures are so low cost to the airline

 

[JohnK]

Agreed @SOPOOR but Qantas wants to charge you last minute full economy airfare when downgrading you from cheap business airfare on sale 12 months ago.

The person that dreamt up this rubbish is overpaid. Just like the person who thinks it's ok to move someone from forward aisle to middle seat at the back.

 

[SOPOOR]

Agreed @SOPOOR but Qantas wants to charge you last minute full economy airfare when downgrading you from cheap business airfare on sale 12 months ago.

The person that dreamt up this rubbish is overpaid. Just like the person who thinks it's ok to move someone from forward aisle to middle seat at the back.

If it was a optional downgrade then fair enough. But a forced one? ?!!

It just astounds me

That's like me going to the airport on my economy ticket and forcing them to upgrade me to business but yet I'm demanding to pay half the price difference

 

[JohnK]

If it was a optional downgrade then fair enough. But a forced one? ?!!

It just astounds me

That's like me going to the airport on my economy ticket and forcing them to upgrade me to business but yet I'm demanding to pay half the price difference

Yes these are forced downgrades and Qantas calculates the highest possible full economy airfare and bases any refund on that amount.

Some people fight yet others just accept and move on.

 

[jb747]

Agreed @SOPOOR but Qantas wants to charge you last minute full economy airfare when downgrading you from cheap business airfare on sale 12 months ago..

Yep...utterly disgusting. Now there is a worthwhile court case.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Now there is a worthwhile court case.

Appreciate this is slightly OT... but is everyone now taking a screenshot of the cheapest economy fare at the time they are making their business class bookings?

Airlines will have that information, but they may be reluctant to give it to you.

 

[Deleted member]

When you buy a seat on QF that's all you are buying - A seat not a particular seat. That's unless you are prepared to pay the extra for seat selection. Single travellers don't pay extra and have no special rights above that despite your obvious belief they should have.

Frankly most people on a flight are strangers, sure I get that sitting next to someone you know may make it easier but if you are paying the same price I don't agree that singles have any special rights.

Which is why my strategy for avoiding the middle seat allocation is to pay for or points upgrade to J.
Very rarely have I missed out

 

[Deleted member]

The difficulty with all of this comes down to two two things. Firstly, you lose leverage after the fact and secondly, what I consider misrepresentation.

Iv'e had more than enough situations where you complain about something after the fact, only to be given the good old, "we are sorry we didn't meet your expectations on this occasion and we hope to do better next time" BS excuse. Just prior to this Singapore event, I flew to HKG with no inflight entertainment whatsoever. Initially, i got the above BS apology. after escalating the complaint, i got a piddly 3,000 FF points. 3,000 points for 9 hours of boredom. I also had over 700,000 points, so the 3,000 was quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Had I known that the IFE didn't work (on the whole aircraft mind you), I would not have boarded. But alas..... we were intentionally misled about the nature of the failure. We were initially delayed by about an hour because they were fixing it. Then we were told that it couldn't be turned on until we were at altitude, because apparently it was overheating and we had to wait until we were in the colder air. Naturally, when the aircraft has departed, you no longer have a choice. Had they told us the truth, I think half the people would have refused to fly. Does that sound fair, reasonable, ethical or moral to you?

Secondly, Qantas, or any airline for that matter, cannot have its cake and eat it too. It cannot espouse all these benefits that convince or persuade you to book with them, namely all of the relevant/appropriate status benefits, only to then not provide those benefits. So whilst they may not be "rights" exactly, they are published benefits that form what are legally referred to as implied terms. So, with with all due respect to conditions of carriage, they are superseded by actual consumer laws. So whilst the CoC form a substantial part of the contract, they do not constitute the entire contract.

If QF persuade people to book with them by telling them they will get Priority boarding, priority luggage, lounge access, additional luggage allowance or anything else they want to throw in, then guess what.... that forms part of the contract, and when those benefits are not provided, Qantas is in breach of that contract and it must make good. An apology simply doesn't cut it.

Broken IFE is becoming an annoyingly regular. Mrs GPH, in the best traditions of the Boy Scout motto, is to “be prepared”, and has a decent amount of downloaded content on her ipad. Something I have stated do myself

 

[Princess Fiona]

I am sure the OP will be back to provide the details and evidence.

I think I worked it out but I could be wildly wrong here
OP took two issues to VCAT at the same time.
The SIN incident (temporary flight ban) $1xx_ in claims sought.
The HKG IFE incident (not working) $100 claims sought.
VCAT found for QF in SIN incident and a full brief and evidence was heard and VCAT didn’t have jurisdiction in the IFE claim and QF agreed they didn’t, no evidence heard.

I’m thinking the $100 IFE claim then went to the Magistrates court and QF settled.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think I worked it out but I could be wildly wrong here
OP took two issues to VCAT at the same time.
The SIN incident (temporary flight ban) $1xx_ in claims sought.
The HKG IFE incident (not working) $100 claims sought.
VCAT found for QF in SIN incident and a full brief and evidence was heard and VCAT didn’t have jurisdiction in the IFE claim and QF agreed they didn’t, no evidence heard.

I’m thinking the $100 IFE claim then went to the Magistrates court and QF settled.

Indeed. Although post #5 of this thread the OP would have us believe that the refund of the flight ex SIN was refused for want if jurisdiction and that he was successful at a later date. This does not fit with the VCAT case as linked in this thread (where the flight ex SIN was heard by VCAT and dismissed, and the IFE portion only was dismissed in jurisdictional grounds).