Barista replaced by Nespresso [pop up - for April] in Virgin lounge?

[eastwest101]

I have never tried a nespresso Pod before, but looks like I will be shortly! Not claiming to be a coffee snob and will try the blind taste test when I have a chance, I have a proper coffee grinding and brewing machine at home and that makes pretty consistent cups of coffee (although you do go through the rigmarole of refilling beans, water and emptying dredge drawers so they aren't really practical in a Airline lounge environment).

Question about the Nespresso pod machines, are they set up for fresh milk, no milk or the dreaded UHT milk? I guess depends on what is available in the lounge as I am guessing milk is not added in the capsule in the Nespress style machines? Dumb question I know.

I have found that UHT milk can effectively ruin even the best cup of coffee and make average quality coffee undrinkable. Thats why the only decent white coffee you can get in the air is on QF or on VA J class, not most Y class coffee, as that usually involves UHT milk.

EDIT: Just read Anatol's comments and it appears that I have (unknowingly) tried Nespresso pod coffee before - on VA Business Class! Learn something new every day. Does that mean that QF mainline uses brewed filtered coffee on their aircraft?

 

[mannej]

I have never tried a nespresso Pod before, but looks like I will be shortly! Not claiming to be a coffee snob and will try the blind taste test when I have a chance, I have a proper coffee grinding and brewing machine at home and that makes pretty consistent cups of coffee (although you do go through the rigmarole of refilling beans, water and emptying dredge drawers so they aren't really practical in a Airline lounge environment).

Question about the Nespresso pod machines, are they set up for fresh milk, no milk or the dreaded UHT milk? I guess depends on what is available in the lounge as I am guessing milk is not added in the capsule in the Nespress style machines? Dumb question I know.

I have found that UHT milk can effectively ruin even the best cup of coffee and make average quality coffee undrinkable. Thats why the only decent white coffee you can get in the air is on QF or on VA J class, not most Y class coffee, as that usually involves UHT milk.

EDIT: Just read Anatol's comments and it appears that I have (unknowingly) tried Nespresso pod coffee before - on VA Business Class! Learn something new every day. Does that mean that QF mainline uses brewed filtered coffee on their aircraft?

Fresh/UHT Milk is able to go with the pod - depends on what the lounge has available.

 

[anat0l]

I have never tried a nespresso Pod before, but looks like I will be shortly! Not claiming to be a coffee snob and will try the blind taste test when I have a chance, I have a proper coffee grinding and brewing machine at home and that makes pretty consistent cups of coffee (although you do go through the rigmarole of refilling beans, water and emptying dredge drawers so they aren't really practical in a Airline lounge environment).

I assume you also clean your machine and de-calc it regularly as required as well? These steps can often be overlooked.

Question about the Nespresso pod machines, are they set up for fresh milk, no milk or the dreaded UHT milk? I guess depends on what is available in the lounge as I am guessing milk is not added in the capsule in the Nespress style machines? Dumb question I know.

I can't comment on the machines as I haven't seen them - someone else might do better. The capsules only contain coffee, no milk, and it is not combined with the coffee until the espresso is drawn, just like a human barista does it (and nearly any robot barista for that matter).

I have found that UHT milk can effectively ruin even the best cup of coffee and make average quality coffee undrinkable. Thats why the only decent white coffee you can get in the air is on QF or on VA J class, not most Y class coffee, as that usually involves UHT milk.

You would think fresh milk is used nearly all of the time, as it is used often enough to demand fresh milk each day (and is usually easily replaced by the staff when drained).

EDIT: Just read Anatol's comments and it appears that I have (unknowingly) tried Nespresso pod coffee before - on VA Business Class! Learn something new every day. Does that mean that QF mainline uses brewed filtered coffee on their aircraft?

IIRC when VA first rolled out their A330s (the very early JB years), they had espresso machines on board, similar to what QF passengers were used to on the A380. I don't know who was supplying the coffee to VA at this time (possibly Vittoria).

I believe it was last year-ish when the announcement was made that VA were going to Nespresso coffee on board. I'm guessing this means capsules, but I haven't flown VA J for a very long time. My impression, though, on the 737s that it was still non-espresso coffee, a la brewed (possibly bag, but I doubt it, because it doesn't taste so thin that it would be bag coffee).

QF, as far as I know, uses brewed (plunger press) on all services except for A380, B747 (refurbished) and possibly refurbished A330s.

All of the above, happy to be corrected.

 

[atreides]

Things and sliding fast at VA. What next, remove the toilets like a KrisFlyer Gold lounge?

 

[yoboseyo]

One has to wonder if making espresso is more scientific than an art form, why has it taken so long to invent an effective machine that can rival the best human baristas, the latter of which we now admit are "inconsistent due to endless human error"? We all know the horrors of having to drink the insipid, watery coffee that came from those robot baristas in the QF domestic lounges many years ago.

the process of extracting coffee from beans and adding milk to it is entirely scientific. "Art" is used for things we can't explain, or in some cases things can be explained but people want to keep it as an "art" because they don't want it to be explained. This is one of these cases. It tastes better because you see a barista work for it. That effort is $4 worth instead of 70c worth, even though it's more subject to error.

 

[anat0l]

It tastes better because you see a barista work for it. That effort is $4 worth instead of 70c worth, even though it's more subject to error.

I don't think that entirely explains it. What happens if someone brings me a coffee and I don't know where it comes from? So far, I can accurately tell whether that coffee was made by a human barista or by a robot. Comparing a human barista coffee with Nespresso might be harder, especially if no milk is used.

That also still doesn't explain why it has taken so long to make a decent robot. This is making espresso, not assembling cars.

 

[eastwest101]

I assume you also clean your machine and de-calc it regularly as required as well? These steps can often be overlooked.

Yes, my own machine at home, religiously, it's worth the effort and time, but I also have an under-sink water filter and only use filtered water in the tank of the coffee machine, and that must improve the taste in water supplies that are strongly chlorinated/flouridated and have hard Calcine water supplies, it also reduces the number of descaling cycles that you have to do.

I
You would think fresh milk is used nearly all of the time, as it is used often enough to demand fresh milk each day (and is usually easily replaced...

You would think so on the ground, but have a look at what happens in the air, especially in Y class and on smaller aircraft, I think it's related to galley sizes and facilities plus the bean counters looking at high wage cost and efficiencies of what is served and how it's served on the aircraft.

 

[yoboseyo]

I don't think that entirely explains it. What happens if someone brings me a coffee and I don't know where it comes from? So far, I can accurately tell whether that coffee was made by a human barista or by a robot. Comparing a human barista coffee with Nespresso might be harder, especially if no milk is used.

That also still doesn't explain why it has taken so long to make a decent robot. This is making espresso, not assembling cars.

Not sure about your ability, but if people were served it more often without knowing, I think it would have a better reputation for being barista-quality. Like in the lounge, for example.

I don't think we weren't able to do it - it's more about creating a profitable product in a market that didn't really need to exist.

 

[anat0l]

Not sure about your ability, but if people were served it more often without knowing, I think it would have a better reputation for being barista-quality. Like in the lounge, for example.

I don't think we weren't able to do it - it's more about creating a profitable product in a market that didn't really need to exist.

I won't boast as I can't, but having tasted many coffees made by human baristas and those from robots, I think I can fairly accurately tell one from the other, blind. For most part, the difference seems to be either in (a) one tastes a bit more watery than the other, or (b) one seems to lack depth or character compared to another (i.e. one tastes more like coffee-flavoured water rather than coffee, if that makes any kind of sense).

I will concede that Nespresso machines have made that difference a lot harder to detect, and for that matter even the non-Nespresso (non-pod) robot baristas are also getting better (also helps when the machine hosts use better quality beans, too).

I agree with you that if Nespresso coffee were served more often without actually outing it as such, people might not notice the difference, though I'd imagine the regular travellers might pick up on a difference (whether that is a positive or negative difference is not certain). Since patrons are used to seeing their coffee being made, it'd be a bit hard to hide the process of where the coffee has come from. They would probably, on average, after time notice that the coffee is surprisingly consistent in quality (again, disregarding where on the quality scale it lies), assuming that things like maintenance, properly steaming milk, handling of consumables etc. were done properly as well.

I don't see why the market wouldn't have screamed out for a decent coffee machine that we can start to claim is better than most or all human baristas. Surely that would be a business' dream, especially given the proliferation of espresso coffee across the cafe scene in Australia (every two bit cafe now has a food display cabinet, a panini press, a microwave and a barista machine). Selling it would not be a big diff and of course we would see the price drop.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

I do get the general feel of this discussion, IMO there is no comparison between Nespresso pods and manually prepared coffee.

There are any number of variables from beans, where they were sourced, harvested, roasted, stored, along with the grind ( not just how coarse but quality of the grinder ), how the tamper has been used, the temperature of the water, how long the pour goes for, the type of milk, the temperature of the milk etc etc.


I think Nespresso is ok for home use, consistent coffee and better than instant, but a properly prepared espresso with fresh high quality beans is fantastic.

 

[ethernet]

I think the Nespresso downgrade is a big mistake. CHOICE magazine did some comparisons and the verdict was inferior without exception. I think the conclusion is summed up here:
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/04/nespresso-coffee-overpriced-rubbish/
Pods are about 5.5 grams Vs 11 grams in a normal Italian real fresh machine.

I suspect quite a few AFF members are into trendy coffee shops, and hard to beat inner city Melbourne coffee shops. See CoffeeSnobs for everything.
The second secret of coffee is that Australia gets some of the worst quality beans, often made bearable by clever blending. Some of the Swiss Fresh bean type automatic machines do a fair job (Seen at Coles servos and the like) - but the cycle time and the breakdown rate should scare the airlines as will the mess by suburban bogans and the lower classes.

So pen that letter of displeasue. I am not a snob. Only the lower class use that word.

 

[anat0l]

I think the Nespresso downgrade is a big mistake. CHOICE magazine did some comparisons and the verdict was inferior without exception. I think the conclusion is summed up here:
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/04/nespresso-coffee-overpriced-rubbish/
Pods are about 5.5 grams Vs 11 grams in a normal Italian real fresh machine.

They used Nespresso Roma for that comparison? No wonder it lost - that was a dumb choice. I usually opt for Ristretto or Kazaar for a big hit, or Capriccio for a rounded shot not taken with milk.

I didn't know that there appears to be twice as much coffee used in a drink made by a human barista, but once again this is all adding to the argument as to whether we actually have a competitive machine that gives a good case to replace the human barista.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I do get the general feel of this discussion, IMO there is no comparison between Nespresso pods and manually prepared coffee.

There are any number of variables from beans, where they were sourced, harvested, roasted, stored, along with the grind ( not just how coarse but quality of the grinder ), how the tamper has been used, the temperature of the water, how long the pour goes for, the type of milk, the temperature of the milk etc etc.


I think Nespresso is ok for home use, consistent coffee and better than instant, but a properly prepared espresso with fresh high quality beans is fantastic.

Its not coffee unless its barista made....and you're dead right its nothing to do with snobbery or anything else apart from the best coffee. God only knows there are enough challenges out there apart from getting a decent coffee.

 

[mannej]

I think the Nespresso downgrade is a big mistake. CHOICE magazine did some comparisons and the verdict was inferior without exception. I think the conclusion is summed up here:
https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/04/nespresso-coffee-overpriced-rubbish/
Pods are about 5.5 grams Vs 11 grams in a normal Italian real fresh machine.

I suspect quite a few AFF members are into trendy coffee shops, and hard to beat inner city Melbourne coffee shops. See CoffeeSnobs for everything.
The second secret of coffee is that Australia gets some of the worst quality beans, often made bearable by clever blending. Some of the Swiss Fresh bean type automatic machines do a fair job (Seen at Coles servos and the like) - but the cycle time and the breakdown rate should scare the airlines as will the mess by suburban bogans and the lower classes.

So pen that letter of displeasue. I am not a snob. Only the lower class use that word.

Sorry but Choice is a bad smell that won't go away. They are too happy to manipulate testing to produce the outcome they wish.

Not that I disagree about the comments on fresh v pods, but using choice to back your argument is like sourcing Wikipedia on a report.

 

[justcallmeryan]

As per the previous posts this sounds like a clever (or not so clever!) promotion by the Nespresso marketing and PR team. They've probably paid VA quite handsomely to be in the lounge, for a fixed period of time to get feedback and also to hopefully get all us frequent flyer business types exposed to the brand. This is a marketers dream and hopefully will serve it's purpose for them to find out where they sit in the marketplace.

Personally I don't think it's a cost saving measure for VA as the pods would cost about the same as having someone prepare regular coffee (we've looked in to it for our business). Where the real cost savings would be is if they put in one of the self service machines in, but that would be a HUGE hit to the brand and something I doubt JB would be interested in unless forced to do so.

Side note - I much prefer barista made coffee from a good cafe, but also own a Nespresso machine which I use on the weekends. It doesn't make as nice a coffee as my local, but has the convenience of being quick and easy, and good enough for home consumption. But that's just me!

 

[bean]

I am not surprised that those restaurants have replaced the barista with pods. For the kind of patronage they get, a decent, strong brew is sufficient, even at the three star level. After all, it is the food and experience, and I would be willing to bet nearly all Michelin inspectors wouldn't have a palate for coffee anyway.

The kind of patronage who frequent Michelin star restaurants are exactly the same who would turn their nose up in disgust at a poorly made coffee. Seriously, do you realise the intracies that go into the whole experience??? Im amazed you would think that after all that effort they would think nothing of serving a 'sub par' coffee. The food is the experience, as is the wine, the decor, the ambiance, the service...EVERYTHING, every part perfection...and then just slap up a Instant Roast lol? I think its pretty clear they think highly of what they are offering...

 

[Jet L]

Had a nespresso coffee at the SYD lounge today and it was awful, I couldn't finish it. If they are going to subsidise actual baristas then at least train the people making the coffee not to boil the milk. I may be being a bit to harsh having taken a barista course through school but imo it wasn't drinkable

 

[leadman]

I don't understand the problem with this topic, in Biman lounge in Dhaka you even have to put water in the jug and boil it yourself; Nespresso, bloody luxury!!!!!

 

[anat0l]

The kind of patronage who frequent Michelin star restaurants are exactly the same who would turn their nose up in disgust at a poorly made coffee. Seriously, do you realise the intracies that go into the whole experience??? Im amazed you would think that after all that effort they would think nothing of serving a 'sub par' coffee. The food is the experience, as is the wine, the decor, the ambiance, the service...EVERYTHING, every part perfection...and then just slap up a Instant Roast lol? I think its pretty clear they think highly of what they are offering...

Taking it personally a bit, are we? I didn't know you used to own a Michelin...

Putting aside any arguments of the fraud of Michelin, let's get one thing quite clear: it is Michelin and the inspectors who determine it all, including stars. Not patrons. Patrons are more or less the sheep that rely on the guide, the media not being too much better than this.

Now unless you are associating Nespresso with "Instant Roast", the rest of your argument doesn't make sense. We are comparing Nespresso with hand made barista coffee, not Maxwell House. The fact that they (the restaurant operators) think they offer good coffee in a pod (as a fair "compromise" to human barista) says a lot about what is part of the "experience" that is either incongruent with the views of very few patrons (and likely not a Michelin inspector) or touches on a part of the "flawless" experience that is not regarded with linchpin weight by most to all patrons (including Michelin inspectors). While it is a very large generalisation, for Europeans it would not surprise me that this subtlety is maybe the weakest aspect in the offering of any Michelin star restaurant.

 

[bean]

Taking it personally a bit, are we? I didn't know you used to own a Michelin...

Putting aside any arguments of the fraud of Michelin, let's get one thing quite clear: it is Michelin and the inspectors who determine it all, including stars. Not patrons. Patrons are more or less the sheep that rely on the guide, the media not being too much better than this.

Now unless you are associating Nespresso with "Instant Roast", the rest of your argument doesn't make sense. We are comparing Nespresso with hand made barista coffee, not Maxwell House. The fact that they (the restaurant operators) think they offer good coffee in a pod (as a fair "compromise" to human barista) says a lot about what is part of the "experience" that is either incongruent with the views of very few patrons (and likely not a Michelin inspector) or touches on a part of the "flawless" experience that is not regarded with linchpin weight by most to all patrons (including Michelin inspectors). While it is a very large generalisation, for Europeans it would not surprise me that this subtlety is maybe the weakest aspect in the offering of any Michelin star restaurant.

As with your original post I find this one also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Its quite simple-to get a Michelin star means a great deal.

-The restaurants don't award themselves the stars lol, its the inspectors. So with so many Michelin star restaurants serving Nespresso it obviously can't be that bad, let alone 'undrinkable' as someone above just said lol

-Yes its pretty obvious patrons base their patronage on the reviews of experts in the field...um thats kind of the whole idea

-Pointing out spelling mistakes is normally a sign of last resort when you don't have a strong argument to rely on

-I do find it amusing that some random inter web guy thinks he is more qualified to judge food and coffee than a Michelin star inspector....but this is the internet after all