BestJet in Administration

[Andyc]

One thing people should keep in mind with chargebacks is that you can only do a chargeback within 6 months. So you might not want to book flights with OTAs further out than that if they aren't paying for them until you fly.

As a merchant, I've previously been told that 120 days is the claim period for fraud but non-delivery of service is 120 days from the point of the service or the point at which you notified the customer of non-service. So if you book a service 6mths in advance, the 120 days is on top of the 6mths.

On one hand, this may seem overly generous to consumers, but my understanding is that businesses (even large ones) with an longer average prepayment period actually have funds withheld or held in trust to cover prepayments. I've never had to do this for my work, but I do know that every few years I have to demonstrate that bookings made at my business are generally for services immediately rendered (or rendered in next few days).

 

[ozfflyer]

price...

booking thru a wholesaler who specialises in that destination is always cheaper. Some actually buy blocks of seats. Was told by one wholesaler, that airlines love them, due to fact the airline has offloaded a % of seats, without any risk of another incident around the world that leads to drop in airline bookings.

 

[ozfflyer]

As a merchant, I've previously been told that 120 days is the claim period for fraud but non-delivery of service is 120 days from the point of the service or the point at which you notified the customer of non-service. So if you book a service 6mths in advance, the 120 days is on top of the 6mths.

On one hand, this may seem overly generous to consumers, but my understanding is that businesses (even large ones) with an longer average prepayment period actually have funds withheld or held in trust to cover prepayments. I've never had to do this for my work, but I do know that every few years I have to demonstrate that bookings made at my business are generally for services immediately rendered (or rendered in next few days).

have been told some airlines don't get paid from credit card payments, until after the flights have been flown, so credit card company/bank is not left holding chargebacks.

 

[ozfflyer]

And as noted in the Luxury Escapes thread if an ATAS accredited TA goes under AFTA immediately ejects them from ATAS accreditation

which means stuff all. ATAS gives you no refunds.

Booked a holiday & paid non-refundable 20% deposit & balance by credit card direct to tour operator overseas. So travel agent did not hold any funds at all. They didn't want to. Not like the good old days when interest rates were 17% & they used to earn a lot having funds sit in their trust accounts.

 

[ozfflyer]

Anchorage capital actually knew exactly and actually engineered an accounting trick to make to books look great and disappeared with $500mil for an initial investment of $10mil cash.

it's very easy .. write a cheque for any amount, drop it into your bank account & at that point get a statement (the fact that the cheque will bounce is not relevant) it strill appears you have bulk funds in your account

 

[ozfflyer]

More in the ABC 'It's upsetting': Bestjet nightmare as woman loses $16,000 on dream trip

I don't understand this bit "but Ms Riley said Visa's conditions mean there are no refunds if a company goes into liquidation." That is certainly not what I understood about a charge-back. It sounds more like a rejected claim on Credit Card Travel Insurance. However there is an interesting note in Citibank's conditions - "Please note that if a cardholder uses your account to make a BPAY® payment, you cannot claim a chargeback. BPAY® only allows refunds of mistaken, unauthorised or fraudulent payments."

Bpay not credit card payments

 

[theblank]

Not like the good old days when interest rates were 17% & they used to earn a lot having funds sit in their trust accounts.

I am *somewhat sure that interest in trust accounts isnt paid to that account, the relative industry organisation got the interest which goes into a pool to fund assistance to consumers

(disclaimer, I know this is correct for Real Estate agent and Lawyers trust accounts - travel agents I am not sure, do they even have trust accounts?)

 

[ozfflyer]

I am *somewhat sure that interest in trust accounts isnt paid to that account, the relative industry organisation got the interest which goes into a pool to fund assistance to consumers

(disclaimer, I know this is correct for Real Estate agent and Lawyers trust accounts - travel agents I am not sure, do they even have trust accounts?)

We had a trust account back in 90s. We used to earn a lot on travel funds held in trust. The amount varied a lot depending on time of year, but averaged 3 million. 17% x 3 million, was over $1/2 million a year just in interest. So always an incentive to pay suppliers at last possible moment.

Now everyone wants to be paid ASAP & discounts if you do.

 

[theblank]

We had a trust account back in 90s. We used to earn a lot on travel funds held in trust.

Ok, I will stand corrected. I imagine that a travel agents trust acccount is not quite the same as a RealEstate/Lawyers trust account. (For the latter the money is exclusively for a client and therefore requires more protection)
For the TA Its more like a holding account (like you might do for GST/PAYG)

carry on.

 

[ozfflyer]

Ok, I will stand corrected. I imagine that a travel agents trust acccount is not quite the same as a RealEstate/Lawyers trust account. (For the latter the money is exclusively for a client and therefore requires more protection)
For the TA Its more like a holding account (like you might do for GST/PAYG)

carry on.

in Qld, the interest from a solicitors trust acc goes straight to law society not client & can be many many millions in trust, with real estate settlements etc. Know cos had a settlement delayed by few weeks, after we'd paid the funds into trust a/c, which added up to about $1000 in interest but we didn't get it.

 

[TonyHancock]

An unusually serious post so you can assume Griselda has once again accessed my account!!

The Bestjet saga took a bit of a twist as the chargebacks started going through. It appears that IntegraPay, a payment aggregator, took on just a teeny weensy bit more risk that it perhaps should have done. IntegraPay handled the credit and debit card payments for Bestjet and customers would never have known that their money was actually going into a "Best Jet" bank account owned by IntegraPay before the money was transferred to Bestjet's own bank account....until that is, the chargeback process started. It is IntegraPay that has been left with the chargeback responsibility and debt.

The payment aggregator has a tidy income from high revenue, high transaction businesses, but where their customer doesn't own the products it is selling there is potentially a little problem.

Let us say, for the sake of argument, that IntegraPay's customer, let us call him/her "The Merchant" is in the business of selling tickets for cruises.

The Merchant creates a website and puts some excellent cruise deals up for sale on that site. Lots of people like the look of the deals and buy tickets with their credit cards. IntegraPay processes the payments, takes it's cut, and deposits the money in The Merchants account after a couple of days.

The merchant, rather mischievously, doesn't bother to buy the tickets from the cruise line, sells the business to a mate and scarpers. The mate has a bit of a cash flow problem and places the business in administration.

Lots of irate cruise lovers call their banks and initiate a chargeback to what they believe is the now defunct business that offered cruises at fabulous prices.

Quelle Horreur! What they actually find is their chargeback being disputed by IntegraPay, a still solvent business that has no access to information held by The Merchant, and despite challenging the chargeback has little chance of winning because the service The Merchant has sold is not being provided.

The Bestjet case may not have been exactly like this but the one sure thing is that IntegraPay is lacking in the paddle department as it heads up Schitt Creek.

 

[oz_mark]

Another interesting thing, is why were people buying the cruises from the merchant referred to above.

Well, it turns out, that most of its sales leads were from a comparison website, that we shall call Ocean Scanner.

[As an aside, I wonder if Michael and Robert are still friends?]

 

[theblank]

Small success story, and quite a different scenario to most.

WIfe bought a ticket with Bestjet in May 2018for Travel iin Sept 2018, on one of the China airlines (north, south i dunno)
A month before trip the China airline cancels its service out of brisbane, so after much discussion Bestjet agrees to refund, after return of the funds from the airline, they said. << IMO thats a con from the start.

Anyway, she never got her refund, despite several emails back and forth, which of course they no longer replied to after about late november.

I got her to put in a chargeback request to AMEX, and to state " did not receive services paid for, ie a flight to europe" After some communications back and forth, AMEX has just issued the actual refund to her Credit card, albeit the standard disclaimer, which is normal.

I think she was lucky, I had assumed her only hope was to apply as a unsecured creditor, as actually she was owed money rather than a service.
I am sure that it was the careful wording of the charge back request that got her over the line, despite more than 6 months having passed.

 

[Revenge]

So I just got an email from CBA (my credit card provider).

In regards to your dispute for $5,521.54 (INT*BEST JET) - we have received a response from the merchant’s bank, who have advised that the tickets were/are still valid.

In order for us to continue your dispute, we require clarification/verification for the following:

1) Who is the airline company?

2) Were you issued your e-tickets?

3) Did you get notified that the tickets were/are invalid? (We require something in writing from the airline, if possible)

4) Did you contact the airline to verify/confirm if your tickets were valid?

5) Have you re-booked flights?

Can you please also provide a copy of your itinerary/booking confirmation?

This specific information/documentation will assist us in refuting the merchant’s response.

As we have specific timeframes to adhere to, your prompt and urgent attention to this matter would be appreciated.

Outrageous that they are claiming the tickets are valid! I wish that were true!

 

[TonyHancock]

So I just got an email from CBA (my credit card provider).



Outrageous that they are claiming the tickets are valid! I wish that were true!

IntegraPay has been left in a hole and with the debt. They have no access to any ticketing information so need the evidence to prove you:

a) Booked with Bestjet (Your Bestjet Invoice)
b) your flights were canceled or you never received your e-ticket

IntegraPay is receiving many fraudulent requests for chargebacks and needs to weed those out. As of 31st January $1.5 million of chargebacks had been approved. As of today they are about a week behind in processing chargebacks.

 

[ozfflyer]

hopefully Integrapay don't go belly up as well

 

[oz_mark]

IntegraPay has been left in a hole and with the debt. They have no access to any ticketing information so need the evidence to prove you:

a) Booked with Bestjet (Your Bestjet Invoice)
b) your flights were canceled or you never received your e-ticket

IntegraPay is receiving many fraudulent requests for chargebacks and needs to weed those out. As of 31st January $1.5 million of chargebacks had been approved. As of today they are about a week behind in processing chargebacks.

Given your knowledge, I looked up IntegraPay, half expecting to see that the CEO was Tony Hancock

 

[TonyHancock]

hopefully Integrapay don't go belly up as well

They are likely to be up for $10 million plus. Not sure if they have insurance, but I can't believe any company would underwrite that, travel agents are very high risk on the payment aggregator front and one with the background Bestjet had should have stuck out like a sore thumb.

Given your knowledge, I looked up IntegraPay, half expecting to see that the CEO was Tony Hancock

I reckon if I was Mr Urry I'd be running away very quickly trying to make myself look small.

I should add Griselda has been reading a lot of creditor meeting minutes!!

 

[oz_mark]

I reckon if I was Mr Urry I'd be running away very quickly trying to make myself look small.

I should add Griselda has been reading a lot of creditor meeting minutes!!

I am sure there is a reason for that bed time reading

 

[ozfflyer]

They are likely to be up for $10 million plus. Not sure if they have insurance, but I can't believe any company would underwrite that, travel agents are very high risk on the payment aggregator front and one with the background Bestjet had should have stuck out like a sore thumb.



I reckon if I was Mr Urry I'd be running away very quickly trying to make myself look small.

I should add Griselda has been reading a lot of creditor meeting minutes!!

$10m is a lot & many would just walk away