BestJet in Administration

[TonyHancock]

$10m is a lot & many would just walk away

What I found utterly extraordinary was Bestjet's turnover in Q1 of the 2018/2019 financial year - over $200 million........so at $800 million a year the IntegraPay folks would have been rubbing their hands.......up until the 18th December anyway!

 

[ozfflyer]

What I found utterly extraordinary was Bestjet's turnover in Q1 of the 2018/2019 financial year - over $200 million........so at $800 million a year the IntegraPay folks would have been rubbing their hands.......up until the 18th December anyway!

no idea what credit card fee bestjet would have been paying Integrapay, but surely after they paid the banks it could only be something like 0.2%
$800m x 1/5 of 1% = $1.6m

or does anyone have any better insite into what they actually make out of a transaction ?

 

[TonyHancock]

...wait there is more. As the chargebacks proceed there is one bank that has consistently failed to understand what has happened. ING, whilst fortunately unable to bypass or cough up the mechanics of the chargeback process, is totally unaware of IntegraPay and its confused customer service staff members are struggling to understand how Bestjet's bank, NAB, is sending invalidation letters back to them when Bestjet no longer exists. Depending who you seek to there are two theories - 1. NAB themselves are fighting chargebacks or 2. the administrator is instructing NAB.

Bless them.

It hasn't quite occurred to them yet that the particular NAB account belongs to IntegraPay and is not Bestjet's own NAB account.

Valuable lesson for me - don't count on ING sorting stuff out with any degree of competence when things go awry.

 

[TonyHancock]

no idea what credit card fee bestjet would have been paying Integrapay, but surely after they paid the banks it could only be something like 0.2%
$800m x 1/5 of 1% = $1.6m

or does anyone have any better insite into what they actually make out of a transaction ?

I reckon I might settle for $1.6m for an automated process with little overhead cost. (After the initial setup)

I doubt we'll ever know the actual percentage but they start at 1.98% + 0.33 per transaction, then their own merchant fees need to be deducted.. I would guess it would be less for a business like Bestjet with the high transaction value.......or it may even have been more considering the risks. There would have been other fees too. I don't reckon there would be loads of businesses out there that would have a $800 million turnover and use a payment aggregator...but I am only guessing.

I do wonder how big a company IntegraPay is though.

They are laying claim to the funds in Bestjet's account on the basis of a Quistclose Trust. (I'll carry on in a minute after Mr Google has filled you in!!!!










Right you are back!

I have no idea (shock, horror) if it will work, but it is fascinating watching this play out....now that the vast majority will get their funds back. I sort of wonder if those that paid directly into Bestjet's account could use the Quistclose Trust approach?

 

[ozfflyer]

enquired about again getting credit card facilities(Visa/Mastercard only) through ANZ end of last year for a very small family business, rather than use Paypal & try to get buyers to pay 2.6% on Visa/Mastercard/Amex. On our estimated figures(very small, we estimated $100k a year), they quoted 0.99% +GST with a minimum of $29, yes $29 a month, with all transactions being done online, not through an EFTPOS machine, so we had to have details like billing address, security PIN etc. to reduce fraud I guess.

 

[TonyHancock]

enquired about again getting credit card facilities(Visa/Mastercard only) through ANZ end of last year for a very small family business, rather than use Paypal & try to get buyers to pay 2.6% on Visa/Mastercard/Amex. On our estimated figures(very small, we estimated $100k a year), they quoted 0.99% +GST with a minimum of $29, yes $29 a month, with all transactions being done online, not through an EFTPOS machine, so we had to have details like billing address, security PIN etc. to reduce fraud I guess.

I suspect IntegraPays fees from Mastercard/Visa/Amex would be very competitive, given their business is entirely payment processing for others.

 

[cambriamarsh]

enquired about again getting credit card facilities(Visa/Mastercard only) through ANZ end of last year for a very small family business, rather than use Paypal & try to get buyers to pay 2.6% on Visa/Mastercard/Amex. On our estimated figures(very small, we estimated $100k a year), they quoted 0.99% +GST with a minimum of $29, yes $29 a month, with all transactions being done online, not through an EFTPOS machine, so we had to have details like billing address, security PIN etc. to reduce fraud I guess.

A bit OT but I wish we could credit card rates like that in NZ! Very difficult to get anything under about 1.6% and even that is low.

 

[ozfflyer]

A bit OT but I wish we could credit card rates like that in NZ! Very difficult to get anything under about 1.6% and even that is low.

guess it all depends on transacrion size & industry(retail has less fraud than say travel) & if only getting authorised online, with more details, probably less fraud again.

 

[UP4014]

something out this morning........

'I may have seen her once': Bestjet staff say former director was rarely in office

 

[aerotravel]

So I placed a dispute transaction with Amex for J class ticket worth $3k SYD-HKG via SIN with SQ end of Jan 2019.

SQ placed my ticket in a Reserve state (no e-ticket number issued) and I explained to Amex that the money from Bestjet never paid SQ, hence, the ticket was not issued. My dispute was rejected on the basis that the ticket was not "CANCELLED" by the airline. I called Amex asking to re-open the dispute to where the money is in limbo and I never received a confirmed/paid ticket.

SQ called me about the hold ticket situation and I advised that the payment is under dispute with Amex where Bestjet did not make the payment to SQ and they wanted to know if I wanted to pay them over the phone which I politely declined as I am still in dispute with Amex/Bestjet.
The reserved itinerary is now cancelled by SQ.

UGH! I don't know what else I can do now... I also provided a copy of the receipt from Bestjet and itinerary from SQ showing that the ticket was not issued when I re-opened the case and reached out to SQ to provide me a written confirmation that the ticket is cancelled.

 

[TonyHancock]

So I placed a dispute transaction with Amex for J class ticket worth $3k SYD-HKG via SIN with SQ end of Jan 2019.

SQ placed my ticket in a Reserve state (no e-ticket number issued) and I explained to Amex that the money from Bestjet never paid SQ, hence, the ticket was not issued. My dispute was rejected on the basis that the ticket was not "CANCELLED" by the airline. I called Amex asking to re-open the dispute to where the money is in limbo and I never received a confirmed/paid ticket.

SQ called me about the hold ticket situation and I advised that the payment is under dispute with Amex where Bestjet did not make the payment to SQ and they wanted to know if I wanted to pay them over the phone which I politely declined as I am still in dispute with Amex/Bestjet.
The reserved itinerary is now cancelled by SQ.

UGH! I don't know what else I can do now... I also provided a copy of the receipt from Bestjet and itinerary from SQ showing that the ticket was not issued when I re-opened the case and reached out to SQ to provide me a written confirmation that the ticket is cancelled.

First up did you get written confirmation from SQ that your initial ticket was either cancelled or never issued?

Amex will need this to refute IntegraPay's invalidation of the chargeback. IntegraPay is processing the chargebacks but has no access to any ticketing information. There are reports of fraudulent chargeback attempts so IntegraPay is using a blanket statement by IATA to invalidate chargebacks.

If you get the information to Amex you should be fine.

 

[aerotravel]

First up did you get written confirmation from SQ that your initial ticket was either cancelled or never issued?

Amex will need this to refute IntegraPay's invalidation of the chargeback. IntegraPay is processing the chargebacks but has no access to any ticketing information. There are reports of fraudulent chargeback attempts so IntegraPay is using a blanket statement by IATA to invalidate chargebacks.

If you get the information to Amex you should be fine.

I re-opened the case 2nd time, went to SQ website and pulled my itinerary and printed straight from the site that had a message on screen saying it's not a confirmed ticket (which I hope it means to the investigator that it's not issued). I have now asked SQ to send me a confirmation of cancellation of the ticket to be attached to the dispute claim.

First time around, the agent on the phone said, leave it with us and no need to supply any documents / evidence.

Cross my fingers second time around...

 

[theblank]

So I placed a dispute transaction with Amex for J class ticket worth $3k SYD-HKG via SIN with SQ end of Jan 2019.

SQ placed my ticket in a Reserve state (no e-ticket number issued) and I explained to Amex that the money from Bestjet never paid SQ, hence, the ticket was not issued.

I think you made a mistake here. There is no way that you can know that Bestjet hasnt paid SQ thats an internal matter between to companies, and by bringing this up its overcomplicated the case.

You should have simply said that Bestjet has not provided you with the service you have paid for, and left it at that.

 

[Virgin Bart]

Well... Today I get a letter from credit card provider..... Extremely frustrated. I have an email from Virgin saying it's cancelled. Am disputing and further and sending that email (email).

 

[33kft]

Well... Today I get a letter from credit card provider..... Extremely frustrated. I have an email from Virgin saying it's cancelled. Am disputing and further and sending that email (email).

This appears to be the work of a desperate IntegraPay trying to save their tails. It is quite wrong and I wonder what legal liability they are opening themselves up to.

 

[TonyHancock]

This appears to be the work of a desperate IntegraPay trying to save their tails. It is quite wrong and I wonder what legal liability they are opening themselves up to.

I suspect they are rejecting every chargeback, whether the customer sees the rejection or not will depend upon their own bank's handling of it. I don't think IntegraPay has a choice. Anecdotally it has been reported that there have been many cases of fraudulent claims and IntegraPay has no access to any ticketing information to prove or disprove a claim. IntegraPay in order to weed out the fraudulent claims has to seek proof from the customer. I suspect they aren't too happy about doing that, it will cost them extra for every successful claim. (I'm not defending them because I think they should have known the risks when they took Bestjet on as a customer. Bestjet was hardly squeaky clean.)

 

[theblank]

Well... Today I get a letter from credit card provider..... Extremely frustrated. I have an email from Virgin saying it's cancelled. Am disputing and further and sending that email (email). View attachment 157151 View attachment 157152

You need to tell your bank the right words, if you say it wrong, then you wont get your money back.
Disputing the transaction means you did not authorise it, so DO NOT say you are disputing it, because it is a fact that you did authorise it.

You must report that you did not receive the services that you paid for and thats it. If your bank asks for some more evidence that you did not recieve your ticket, be ready to provide that.

Read your credit cards disputed transaction terms and conditions to make sure you get this right. My missus went through exactly they same process, the first response back was they indicatoed the chargeback would be refused, but we provided evidence and eventually they did it.

 

[TonyHancock]

If your bank asks for some more evidence that you did not recieve your ticket, be ready to provide that.

Part of the problem here is that IntegraPay is using a statement from IATA that all bookings made up to and including 10th December 2018 were ticketed. This is largely the case but not 100% true.

I booked on the 2nd December and took my trip without problems in January. If I was dishonest I could initiate a chargeback and IntegraPay would not be able to demonstrate whether I did or didn't travel. In chargebacks the onus is on the merchant to provide the evidence. That is where the IATA statement comes in because it pushes back on the consumer to provide evidence, in this case that the tickets were canceled or not received. In the cat where tickets were received the cancellation information - either by the airline, Bestjet, or CVFR (consolidator) is what IntegraPay is looking for as well as the ticket confirmation.

 

[Ains]

I want to cancel some flights I booked through best jet with the Oman Air.
When I rang Oman Air they said we cannot cancel the flights you need to do that with the ticketing agency. But I can’t because best jet do not exist.
I put in a dispute of the transaction through Amex. Only for whoever is dealing with this to say they cannot refund the money because the money has been paid to the airline and to contact the airline. Again...the airline will not deal with me on wanting to cancel.

Should I put in another dispute with Amex?
I will keep trying the airline too.

Any advice on how I can cancel the flights and get some money back would be welcome.
Many thanks, Ains

 

[theblank]

Any advice on how I can cancel the flights and get some money back would be welcome.
Many thanks, Ains

I think you need to ring the Travel Agent who now owns this ticket arrangementr. BestJet does not exist but the operator they go through does. I am sure others have mnetioned this in this thread before, have you read through all of it. There is a longer thread at Whirlpool also, that might have similar tales to you.