Big B@%$ard in my allocated seat! What would you do?

[adamj]

So im currently sitting in Alice Springs with 5 of my 7 sectors now complete. Unfortunately the small lounge here is completely full but the desk attendant inside was happy for me to take food and drink from the lounge into the terminal. Here is a quick run down of my journey so far which commenced early Saturday Morning.

Flight 1: Mel to Syd @ 7:00am on Saturday - JASA. Well this was my most eventful flight so far. I got on the plane with my boarding pass for seat 2A and was pleasantly surprised by a very hard core looking bikey sitting in my seat holding a boarding pass in his hand for seat 42E. I politely advised him that he was in my seat, he looked at me with a death stare and then proceeded to turn the other way. I must admit i felt very intimidated and didnt want to hold up the rest of the boarding process so I just sat down in 2B. As per usual the FA's didn't bother to greet passengers and therefore did not pickup on the fact that this guy was not sitting where he should have been. Doors closed and the FA's went to there jump seats and the departure was now in motion. So now I had a little dilemma on my hands, if I complain to the FA about this guy several things could happen, 1. he could get into an argument with the FA's and make the plane turn around because the FA's would be scared (no good for me as I had connections to catch), 2. I could advise the front cabin attendant and then have this passenger know that I dobbed him in. 3. I could go to the FA's in the next cabin and explain the situation to them. I decided to go with option 3 once the plane had leveled out after take off. This is how the conversation went:

Adam: Excuse me what does my boarding card say
FA: it says seat 2A sir.
Adam: So why is there a very intimidating person sitting in my seat?
FA: What do you mean?
Adam: I mean that I pay a premium over the other passengers to sit at the front of the aircraft and there is a passenger sitting next to me holding a boarding card to 42E, he is a pretty intimidating looking person and I should not have to be put into a position where I feel intimidated when I fly with your airline, especially in Business Class.
FA: Yes sir this is definitely a problem, lets go back to row 2 and we can have him moved to his actual seat.
Adam: I dont want to come with you to row 2 and have him moved, I dont want this person knowing that I am the reason he is being moved, the last thing I want is this guy and/or his friends confronting me on arrival into Sydney, I should never have been put in this position in the first place and its unacceptable.
FA: Ok, you hide in the galley and as he walks one direction we will signal you and you walk the other direction so you don't make any contact with him.
Adam: OK
This happened and I then went back to my seat (already 30 mins into the flight)
CSM: Hi sir, I just wanted to let you know that we would have realized that he was in the wrong seat as we go through the manifest.
Adam: you would have realised when you serve the food because thats when you would check the manifest for Business Class.
CSM: no, this is not the case we would have picked it up straight away......
Adam: whatever you say, the fact that I had to go and tell FA's in the middle cabin because I felt intimidated is completely unacceptable and this should never have occured. You can see the entire business cabin when you board the plane and the fact that he sat in 2A straight away shows a lack of awareness from your Cabin Crew when boarding the plane.
CSM: enjoy the rest of the flight MR ******.

I have to say in all my years of flying this was definitely the most awkward situation I have been in. I spent the remainder of the flight worried about my personal safety in case this guy saw me when we got off the plane. As soon as i got off I went straight to the lounge to ensure that he would not be able to spot me. I told the staff at the counter at the lounge, they handed me a business card with a web address to the online submission form for complaints.........Wow what an amazing customer service system they have in place, what a disgrace.

<redacted non specific content>

 

[markis10]

The upgrader would have been spotted during the meal service without you having to do anything.

 

[adamj]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

The upgrader would have been spotted during the meal service without you having to do anything.

He wasn't upgraded, just a random guy that saw an empty seat before I boarded and decided to sit in it. He knew exactly what he was doing as I was one of the last people to board the plane so he would have thought that the seat was empty and no one would pick up on it. The fact that after 25 minutes they had not picked up on it is unacceptable, when they offer the welcome drinks they should have realized at the very least that 2B should have been an empty seat. Alarm bells should have rung straight away that both 2A and 2B were occupied at the point of take off......

Did i mention that he was wearing a tracksuit & thongs, had a black eye and a southern cross tattoo on his hand with dry blood in his middle knuckle? Im not so much having a go at was he was wearing but surely all of these attributes would make him stand out from the rest of the passengers on the plane.

 

[markis10]

He wasn't upgraded, just a random guy that saw an empty seat before I boarded and decided to sit in it. He knew exactly what he was doing as I was one of the last people to board the plane so he would have thought that the seat was empty and no one would pick up on it. The fact that after 25 minutes they had not picked up on it is unacceptable, when they offer the welcome drinks they should have realized at the very least that 2B should have been an empty seat. Alarm bells should have rung straight away that both 2A and 2B were occupied at the point of take off......

Did i mention that he was wearing a tracksuit & thongs, had a black eye and a southern cross tattoo on his hand with dry blood in his middle knuckle? Im not so much having a go at was he was wearing but surely all of these attributes would make him stand out from the rest of the passengers on the plane.

He was still an upgrader! And I think you missed the point, during the meal service the FA will have a manifest in front of them, it's more than likely you had a quick departure so the crew were probably concentrating on the safety aspect of the departure rather than the comfort side. What someone looks like in J is irrelevant, plenty of rock bands fly in the pointy end for instance.

 

[bodog]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

he was wearing a tracksuit & thongs, had a black eye and a southern cross tattoo on his hand with dry blood in his middle knuckle

Look I agree it should not have happened and that the FA's should have spotted it but I didn't realise there was a dress code for Business Class? - so as I'm doing my status run to ASA next weekend which of these items should I avoid? Tracksuit and thongs are in my wardrobe..but not planning to get a tattoo during the week or in a scrap on Friday night so should be ok on that front

Seriously though - I can understand you being upset and you should not have been placed in that position

 

[adamj]

He was still an upgrader! And I think you missed the point, during the meal service the FA will have a manifest in front of them, it's more than likely you had a quick departure so the crew were probably concentrating on the safety aspect of the departure rather than the comfort side. What someone looks like in J is irrelevant, plenty of rock bands fly in the pointy end for instance.

Coincidentally I am in the music and entertainment business and my business generally pays for those tickets for the rock bands at the pointy end of the plane so we don't need to have a debate about what is a suitable dress code. I'm sure that my general attire does not conform to what many perceive a business class passenger should be wearing......but this went beyond that. The bottom line is I booked a seat and I should be able to sit in my seat and enjoy my flight in relative comfort without having to worry about my well being because of the passenger sitting next to me who coincidentally is sitting in my seat and is openly holding a boarding pass for 42E which anyone could see. IE, when the FA's check your belts before you take off they could have clearly seen it.

The reference I was making was that based on every pax on the flight this person would have stood out like a saw thumb and therefore during the boarding process I would have thought that they would realize that he should have kept going towards the rear of the plane.

Look I agree it should not have happened and that the FA's should have spotted it but I didn't realise there was a dress code for Business Class? - so as I'm doing my status run to ASA next weekend which of these items should I avoid? Tracksuit and thongs are in my wardrobe..but not planning to get a tattoo during the week or in a scrap on Friday night so should be ok on that front

Seriously though - I can understand you being upset and you should not have been placed in that position

I would avoid having blood on your knuckles for other passengers to see, it tends to make some people feel a little uneasy.........If you have been in a fist fight the night before make sure you wash your hands before boarding

 

[flyingfan]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

CSM: Hi sir, I just wanted to let you know that we would have realized that he was in the wrong seat as we go through the manifest.
Adam: you would have realised when you serve the food because thats when you would check the manifest for Business Class.
CSM: no, this is not the case we would have picked it up straight away......

I do not know when the CSM 'goes through the manifest' and if they do this before takeoff (I seem to see the crew looking at the manifest before the safety briefing) but this freeloader should not have been allowed to remain in his seat after the front door was closed, so if they did go through the manifest they didn't do their job properly. It is most definitely not your job to make sure that passengers are sitting in the seat they paid for and that a squatter doesn't invade your seat.

Im still trying to decide what to do about the incident on my first flight and if I should escalate it with Executive Relations......or just leave it alone and see if either the FA's or the lounge lodged a report and therefore ill get a follow up during the week.

If you haven't lodged a complaint yet I recommend you do so so you're not depending on the crew to do it. I suspect you'll get a form letter of apology but hopefully the crew will be asked to ensure that you're not put in this highly awkward situation again.

The reference I was making was that based on every pax on the flight this person would have stood out like a saw thumb and therefore during the boarding process I would have thought that they would realize that he should have kept going towards the rear of the plane.

I can't agree with you here, to me that sounds making assumptions about where people should be sitting based on appearance. There's been many a time people who very much looked like they didn't belong sat in J (and weren't kicked out during meal service so they couldn't have been squatters), while the suits continued to march on down to Y. I expect crew have learnt not to make assumptions on which cabins passengers have paid for based on how they look.

 

[AaronBradford]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

I told the staff at the counter at the lounge, they handed me a business card with a web address to the online submission form for complaints.........Wow what an amazing customer service system they have in place, what a disgrace.

What exactly were you expecting them to do? This was after the flight.

 

[adamj]

I can't agree with you here, to me that sounds making assumptions about where people should be sitting based on appearance. There's been many a time people who very much looked like they didn't belong sat in J (and weren't kicked out during meal service so they couldn't have been squatters), while the suits continued to march on down to Y. I expect crew have learnt not to make assumptions on which cabins passengers have paid for based on how they look.

Let me rephrase this. When the FA's were boarding the flight and saw the passenger and said hi Mr ***** you are in row 42E down the first isle please. I assumed (yes an assumption) that this person would stand out to them and then seeing him sitting 5 feet away from the door would seem a bit odd, especially when 95% of the plane had already boarded. I suppose the big mistake I made when posting about this was that I should not assume anything as someone that I perceive to be a stand out may not be viewed the same way by others. I was not trying to pass judgment over what clothing he was wearing but rather his overall demeanor and appearance. I just wanted to give a good description of the pax so people could understand why someone sitting next to him (in this case me) could feel intimidated.

Also I need to be clear that I did politely advise him that he was in my seat, and Ill I got back was a serious stare into my eyes and then a turn of the head and look out the window and ignore me. Once I put all of these things together i feel I have some sort of right to be judgmental based on the persons demeanor and how they look and behave. I have no doubt that half the passengers in J look at me and wonder what I'm doing there, the difference is I am polite and approachable and would not do anything to purposely intimidate another passenger.

What exactly were you expecting them to do? This was after the flight.

offer to follow it up for me perhaps? Rather then referring me to the website. I think the human interaction goes a long way

On a completely separate note, I just boarded my asp - Syd flight and got a "mr ***** what are you doing here didnt we drop you off I sydney last night". Yep, turns out to be the same aircraft and crew as my 2 sectors yesterday. I wonder what they are thinking right now.

 

[markis10]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Coincidentally I am in the music and entertainment business and my business generally pays for those tickets for the rock bands at the pointy end of the plane so we don't need to have a debate about what is a suitable dress code. I'm sure that my general attire does not conform to what many perceive a business class passenger should be wearing......but this went beyond that. The bottom line is I booked a seat and I should be able to sit in my seat and enjoy my flight in relative comfort without having to worry about my well being because of the passenger sitting next to me who coincidentally is sitting in my seat and is openly holding a boarding pass for 42E which anyone could see. IE, when the FA's check your belts before you take off they could have clearly seen it.

The reference I was making was that based on every pax on the flight this person would have stood out like a saw thumb and therefore during the boarding process I would have thought that they would realize that he should have kept going towards the rear of the plane.

And the reference I was making is there is NO dress standard for business class, and no one should make assumptions just because of appearance, it's all about the money!

I suspect most other members would have just grabbed a spare seat, recognized the workload of the crew ex Melbourne when the departure runway is adjacent to the QF terminal, and just waited for the crew to sort things out during the meal service when they do check the manifest!

 

[flyingfan]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Also I need to be clear that I did politely advise him that he was in my seat, and Ill I got back was a serious stare into my eyes and then a turn of the head and look out the window and ignore me.

It was clear I would be :evil: had I been in your place.

offer to follow it up for me perhaps? Rather then referring me to the website. I think the human interaction goes a long way

Unfortunately, I would have been a bit surprised if they had done this for you - that would have meant taking ownership of your issue and they probably see their role as staffing the desk. QF service does go the extra mile sometimes... and sometimes it doesn't.

On a completely separate note, I just boarded my asp - Syd flight and got a "mr ***** what are you doing here didnt we drop you off I sydney last night". Yep, turns out to be the same aircraft and crew as my 2 sectors yesterday. I wonder what they are thinking right now.

They probably have a discussion board where they laugh about the crazy runs we do... Red Roo is probably the moderator there

 

[serfty]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

... I got on the plane with my boarding pass for seat 2A and was pleasantly surprised by a very hard core looking bikey sitting in my seat holding a boarding pass in his hand for seat 42E. I politely advised him that he was in my seat, he looked at me with a death stare and then proceeded to turn the other way. I must admit i felt very intimidated and didnt want to hold up the rest of the boarding process so I just sat down in 2B. ...

Im sorry to have written such a large post but thought that some members on here may find it interesting and if this situation has occured with any members previosuly and what was the outcome? ...

...

I suspect most other members would have just grabbed a spare seat, recognized the workload of the crew ex Melbourne when the departure runway is adjacent to the QF terminal, and just waited for the crew to sort things out during the meal service when they do check the manifest!

In over a thousand flights I have found my allocated seat already occupied on several different occasions - although not by such an intimidating figure.

I don't expect the FA doing the greeting to observe the movements of every passenger after scoping their PBs on boarding so such can easily happen.

Given 42E was openly being displayed, I would have done a U turn and discretely approached the FA doing the door greetings and advised them someone was in my allocated seat (nothing else) and left it to them to sort out before the flight departed.

I certainly would never directly approach such an occupant (whom obviously was working by Bluff/intimidation) nor would I have simply taken another seat in these circumstances.

 

[eastwest101]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Regarding the first flight with a "self upgrader" in your seat. My own take on it would to say

"Sorry - looks like a mix up and we have both been assigned the same seat, let me get the flight attendant to see whats going on."

I don't even ask for the other persons boarding pass, I just check that my own is correct. Its usually diplomatic, saves face, and allows for genuine seating screw ups to be solved without aggro, non-confrontational and better sorted out immediately at the gate in case anyone wants to kick up a stink about it. If there is a big problem or a fuss - better off to have it at the gate than in the air.

I agree that this should have been picked up in the J cabin at the drinks or the look over the J manifest stage, not in the air.

 

[scaredeycat]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

I got on the plane with my boarding pass for seat 2A and was pleasantly surprised by a very hard core looking bikey sitting in my seat holding a boarding pass in his hand for seat 42E. I politely advised him that he was in my seat, he looked at me with a death stare and then proceeded to turn the other way. I must admit i felt very intimidated and didnt want to hold up the rest of the boarding process so I just sat down in 2B.

I wouldn't have told him that he was in the wrong seat - I would have told him he was on the wrong airline.

And then I probably would have run away....

 

[simongr]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

I am not sure what I would have done in this situation - most likely gone back to the FAs. After the murder at SYD some time ago I would expect there to be more fear and perceived risk in this situation than previously. I certainly wouldn't have confronted the person directly.

I would not have expected the crew to identify this issue prior to meal service though. If I was going to approach the FAs I wouldnt have waited until we were in flight though.

 

[amaroo]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Would have been interesting to see if the crew would have acted once they reviewed the paperwork.....& then taken a look at him

By the sounds of it, this bloke was working the con like a pro.

 

[harvyk]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

I would have made the complaint to the CSM without actually sitting down in 2B. If the plane is still sitting at the gate and the person is asked to move by the CSM but doesn't, it's pretty easy for them to call the AFP over have have the person removed from the flight whilst still on the ground. Prob wouldn't have eaten into your flight time too much either. Besides if it's part of your status run you prob won't be spending too much time in SYD before continuing, plus you'd have had the safety of the J lounge to retreat into .

As an aside, yes I know there is no dress code in J, but I also know of the type you are talking about, and yes he would look out of place in J.

 

[anchew]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Wow Adamj, that certainly was an interesting status run. I had something similar happened to me before where there was someone sitting in my seat on boarding. I just headed back to the door and advise one of the FAs, but that time it was just a couple who wanted to sit together, not a scary bikie

 

[docjames]

Re: First status run kicking off soon. Qantas lady thought I was playing a joke on he

Ignoring all the comments on dress/intimidation etc, the place to sort out seating issues is on the ground, and it may have been better to approach an FA prior to takeoff.

The "it looks like there's been two of us allocated to the same seat" approach (to both the pax and the FA) is better than "s/he's sitting in my seat".

There would also be a chance in a similar situation to this that the person was allocated the same seat but had boarded the wrong flight (yes there are checks to prevent it happening but i've still seen it happen).

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Has happened to me before as well where a self upgrader plonked themselves next to me. Crew didn't notice so I made the comment 'crew are supposed to dress up in business'. When he said he wasn't crew I asked to see his boarding pass.

Put them on the spot. Although not your job ... You had options at the time.



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