Big development! Qantas seat selection!

[JohnK]

Plus, 4 op-ups.

Already! You have only just made QF Platinum and you have had 4 more op-ups than I have had this year. I have only had 3 op-ups flying almost every week SYD-BNE return in the past 12 months. Just about confirms my luck....

 

[NM]

Every customer is important but customers with higher status are more important.

More important in whose eyes?

Why am I reminded of George Orwell's Animal Farm? - "Everyone is equal. But some are more equal than others"

Who is the customer? In many cases it could be argued that the customer is actually the huge multinational corporate that is paying for the airfare and possibly spending millions of dollars each year with the airline. As the customer, and paying for flexible high-yield airfares and with a contract that guarantees Qantas gets a minimum percentage of the total travel budget or a committed minimum annual spend with the airline, they may be warranted in their expectation that their staff will be looked after when it comes to having access to the good seats, whether the individual passenger makes 20 flights a year (and Silver status), 50 flights a year (and a Gold member) or 80 flights a year (and a Platinum member). The "customer" may be buying tens of thousands of flights a year and hence could be considered important to the airline with whom they have a preferred supplier contract.

 

[futaris]

The costs do not vary significantly between a fully loaded flight and a lightly loaded flight.

And yes I understand yield and inventory management without looking it up in wikipedia. It is actually quite simple. Sell as many tickets as possible at whatever price you can get for them, assuming you have achieved break even point, and increase revenue which will ultimately increase profit. Don't sell seats as cheaply as possible and you lose a customer to the opposition and you fly a lot of empty aircraft.

Since you think it's quite simple.

So what do you suggest that QANTAS do? Fly less flights or fly smaller planes more regularly? Because obviously the demand isn't there for 100% of the seats to be occupied at the O class prices... Maybe they should sell unused seats at dirt cheap prices, aka LCC Jetstar, and then have people complaining that the server infrastructure isn't there for people to book the cheap fares?

You can't expect that WP will get you anything beyond the published benefits. Anyone with more value to the airline has to be higher up the pecking order.

You have give preference to the person who spent more on the current fare, because they're bringing in more revenue on the current flight. And you have to weigh this against the perceived value that someone has "earnt" by flying a lot.

So which value is worth more?

And are you better off trying to please the alliance members, owners, shareholders or the customers, etc?

NB, the Animal Farm comment is pretty much spot on.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I am sorry if I do not agree but every person on a flight is just as important as the next regardless of the class of airfare. Every customer is important but customers with higher status are more important. Customers with high QF status who fly predominantly on QF are more important than customers with high QF status who fly on other Oneworld airlines and the same goes for customers with high QF status as opposed to customers with high Oneworld status on another airline.

Last time I checked QANTAS was a company which is setup to make profits for its shareholders - not to benefit status pax. Having a FF program and status is just one way to help make profits, not an end in itself.

As far as shareholders are concerned, the most important customers are those that bring in the most profits, not those with the most status. I don't think the shareholders give two pennies for how many "status" pax fly on QF planes.

 

[straitman]

The costs do not vary significantly between a fully loaded flight and a lightly loaded flight. May as well fill every seat possible at whatever cost people are prepared to pay for the seats. I was on a QF 737-800 SYD-BNE flight last night with 110 passengers on board out of a seating capacity of 180!. The cheapest airfare a few days earlier was $156. Wouldn't QF have loved another 70 passengers on the flight at $94 a seat + $7.70 credit card surcharge? Full compliment of cabin crew already on duty, fuel costs roughly the same, provide a snack and a soft drink worth about $5 probably less when purchasing in bulk. I figure QF could have gotten $5,000+ extra profit on that flight. A lot better than what they got on the flight last night.

Your next paragraph says you understand 'Yield Management' yet you write this. You obviously should do some research on the subject because you are way off target with this.

And yes I understand yield and inventory management without looking it up in wikipedia. It is actually quite simple. Sell as many tickets as possible at whatever price you can get for them, assuming you have achieved break even point, and increase revenue which will ultimately increase profit. Don't sell seats as cheaply as possible and you lose a customer to the opposition and you fly a lot of empty aircraft.

Where is Ansett when you need them?

In all seriousness I wish it were this simple, but it is not :!:
Outside of being raped and piligaged by Air New Zealand, Ansett was bleeding profucely because it had a lousy 'Yield Management' system. If an airline of the standing of Ansett can get it so wrong then a few people with limited knowledge of the subject are unlikely to be any better.

Yield Management is a little like Project Management in that it is really a dark art that needs to be proactive, reactive and extremely flexible. It is a lot more involved than

Sell as many tickets as possible at whatever price you can get for them, assuming you have achieved break even point, and increase revenue which will ultimately increase profit. Don't sell seats as cheaply as possible and you lose a customer to the opposition and you fly a lot of empty aircraft.

 

[oz_mark]

Sell as many tickets as possible at whatever price you can get for them, assuming you have achieved break even point, and increase revenue which will ultimately increase profit. Don't sell seats as cheaply as possible and you lose a customer to the opposition and you fly a lot of empty aircraft.

It would be more true to say that the idea is to sell as many tickets as you can for the maximum price you can get for them. To get people to pay the 'maximum' price you need to offer them something to do so. One of the things that airlines do is to provide 'flexibility' in the higher fares.

It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that someone on a higher yield fare get access to more coveted seats. It is a fine balancing act, as I do suspect that the business rules around what seats you can pre-select will change over time. Certainly the rules around the seats OLCI presents seem to have had some refinement.

Where is Ansett when you need them?

I have read about a little known factor in the lead up to Ansett's collapse is that Qantas were absolutely thumping them in the yield management due to Ansett's poor Yield Management processes. One of these things was Qantas dropping the Friday (or as it Saturday) night away requirements on their cheaper fares, something that Ansett could not properly respond to.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

If this were a bus trip or a train trip would we even be having this dicussion?

I'm pretty sure it's "first come first served" on most buses (with the exception for giving up certain priority seats for the elderly/pregnant women/handicapped etc).

Similarly, I know people who have to stand - yes they don't even get a seat at all - for 30+ minute train trips. And they do it 5 days a week!

Sometimes I think we take having 4D for a 1 hour flight waaaaaaay to seriously.

 

[docjames]

If this were a bus trip or a train trip would we even be having this dicussion?
.

Depends, do they have a frequent railer or frequent busser program?

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Depends, do they have a frequent railer or frequent busser program?

Well, they do offer a discount if you purchase a multi-trip ticket...

But, its scandalous that they don't offer priority boarding, seat selection for frequent travellers, or even have a status program at all! When I tried to pre-allocate an exit row seat on the bus, the woman at the depot who took my call had no idea what I was talking about. And they wouldn't let me check in my 7 suitcases either. Oh, the horror, the horror. And the to top it all off - having to wait on some wooden seat with all the other pax - it didn't even have a roof let alone a poor food selection to complain about.

 

[jaffa]

Folks l have some feedback,

But l am not sure what to make of it

On Fri l had to make same day return booking (walk on, no luggage) Tsv-Bne-Tsv $1643 rt for today Monday.

Flights QF 969 5.55am Tsv-Bne fully paid J

A client needed a security delivery made by hand, so paid full price as econ was full. This am flight is always one of the most packed out of TSV.

Turned up at the airport at 4.50am, waited till the QC opened and checked in there.

Was allocated 1C for the trip down and was told it was a full flight. when l boarded J was full. 1A was our Fed Member heading to Canberra and 1F was our bishop, heading to pugatory most likely.

2A & 2C were well known channel 9 national personalitys with Plat tags on there hand luggage and had the FA's swooning.

I was also issued with my boarding pass for my flight back which was 1D for QF978 the last flight into Tsv at 9.30pm.

I have been at the Bne QC now for an hour as l got finished here earlyier than l thought and have changed my flight to QF976 to get back as soon as l can and have been allocated 1C again.
I don't know what the loads are like.

I did ask at the QC here in Bne how come as a Gold l scored such good seats both ways at such late notice. Especially since the new allocation system has just come into force and l thought l would be to late for the blocked row 2 for gold's.
The dragon told me it was because of my full fare status.

The reason why l am confused is that l did not OLCI at all. I just turned up at the QC in TSV this Am. I know there were WP's behind me so l cannot make heads or tails of this.
I could have been just lucky.

Need to get ready for the flight back, so will check in here again when l get home and fill you in if theres anything to report.

 

[docjames]

That's because you were in the wrong fare class:

they do offer a discount if you purchase a multi-trip ticket...

(it's dripping this thread......)

 

[serfty]

... The dragon told me it was because of my full fare status. ...

The Altea system has been in action for nearly a year now.

See posts #63 and #220:

The ranking order takes into account FF status, PNR associations, SSRs, booking class, etc.

 

[v8Statesman]

Anyone who thinks that a person on one DONE4 per year with one QF sector is more important or profitable than a person who does 140 QF domestic sectors on cheap airfares is kidding themselves.

On that point QF agree with you. They would still be a NB due to not having 4 QF/JQ flights.

Remember If you by a CX Business ticket from CX and fly CX but credit to QF. QF make money from CX for doing noting other than giving you a few points. Someone has to pay for the poiunts in your QF account. In that case it is CX. So you are still valuable to QF on a DONE4 doing 4 sectors on QF and 12 on others.

 

[JohnK]

Attacked from all sides!

It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that someone on a higher yield fare get access to more coveted seats. It is a fine balancing act, as I do suspect that the business rules around what seats you can pre-select will change over time. Certainly the rules around the seats OLCI presents seem to have had some refinement.

But QF also has a FF program that is supposed to reward status. Am I right? If I am wrong then please igonore the remainder of my comments.

Last time I looked at the Qantas website one of the privileges of Platinum status is preferred seating. And it would appear this is still the case! There is no mention of the class of airfare or how much you need to spend a year or whether you travel on DONE4's regularly or how much your company spends.... None of these references exist under the privileges of Platinum status. Am I still on the right track?

Now if this new system works the way I think it will work then I do not regard row 21 on a 737 or row 42 on a 767 as preferred seating....

 

[simongr]

If this were a bus trip or a train trip would we even be having this dicussion?

I'm pretty sure it's "first come first served" on most buses (with the exception for giving up certain priority seats for the elderly/pregnant women/handicapped etc).

Similarly, I know people who have to stand - yes they don't even get a seat at all - for 30+ minute train trips. And they do it 5 days a week!

Sometimes I think we take having 4D for a 1 hour flight waaaaaaay to seriously.

Hmm - I dont normally pay $450 for my return trip to the city, nor have travel time of 3 hours (including to the station, waiting to board, boarding, getting to take off, take off, in flight, landing, getting to the gate and getting to the city)...

 

[serfty]

... Now if this new system works the way I think it will work then I do not regard row 21 on a 737 or 42 on a 767 as preferred seating....

Try being a QF NB then. On a SYD-MEL 763 in October last year, at OLCI I was allocated row 23, he in row 54 with little ability to move forward - we were travelling on separate bookings, both O class fares.

I was able to allocate 35A/B in exit row seats.

 

[NM]

Last time I looked at the Qantas website one of the privileges of Platinum status is preferred seating. And it would appear this is still the case!

The exact same benefit is listed under Gold and Silver status benefits. I don't see anything on the Qantas FF web site or in their printed terms and conditions that suggests Platinum members get more preferred seating than Gold who get more preferred than Silver. Platinum, Gold and Silver benefits all say the same when it comes to preferred seating. So it would seem that all are equal as far as receiving the benefit of preferred seating is concerned.

 

[drron]

Well, they do offer a discount if you purchase a multi-trip ticket...

But, its scandalous that they don't offer priority boarding, seat selection for frequent travellers, or even have a status program at all! When I tried to pre-allocate an exit row seat on the bus, the woman at the depot who took my call had no idea what I was talking about. And they wouldn't let me check in my 7 suitcases either. Oh, the horror, the horror. And the to top it all off - having to wait on some wooden seat with all the other pax - it didn't even have a roof let alone a poor food selection to complain about.

Now I dont normally ride a bus except in New york city.On one occasion though I was a little damaged-had my knee brace on and a walking stick.The driver made sure i got an exit row!
I dont think QF is alone at trying to work out priorities for their most frequent flyers.Although not into specifics this thread on TB certainly suggests AA is actively into it to.Unfortunately there are many of us who are not going to be as important as we think we should be.

 

[oz_mark]

Attacked from all sides!

...more incoming....

But QF also has a FF program that is supposed to reward status. Am I right? If I am wrong then please igonore the remainder of my comments.

Yes, this is one of the reasons people aim for status

Last time I looked at the Qantas website one of the privileges of Platinum status is preferred seating. And it would appear this is still the case! There is no mention of the class of airfare or how much you need to spend a year or whether you travel on DONE4's regularly or how much your company spends.... None of these references exist under the privileges of Platinum status. Am I still on the right track?

It is also a benefit of silver and gold status

Now if this new system works the way I think it will work then I do not regard row 21 on a 737 or row 42 on a 767 as preferred seating....

Row 21 on the 733 does have good proximity to the galley

 

[simongr]

Last time I looked at the Qantas website one of the privileges of Platinum status is preferred seating. And it would appear this is still the case! There is no mention of the class of airfare or how much you need to spend a year or whether you travel on DONE4's regularly or how much your company spends.... None of these references exist under the privileges of Platinum status. Am I still on the right track?

Now if this new system works the way I think it will work then I do not regard row 21 on a 737 or row 42 on a 767 as preferred seating....

They also have never defined preferred seating either...

I think you have a legitimate annoyance JohnK - something has changed and you are not benefitting from that change - other people are. I think the issue is that to some people this makes business sense - but obviously not to you.