Bonza Airline Discussion

[justinbrett]

Just noticed they had started to remove flights from the app for next week. Then right on cue I get this…

Glad I booked a back up flight. I checked the prices again and it’s gone up by $100 already.

View attachment 356720

I still haven’t heard anything. They’re deliberately dragging this out - if they can send out bulk SMSs like that they should have done so a week ago.

Either they’re hopefully they’ll get the approval for Flair in the coming days (which goes against everything we’ve heard in the media and from the CEO directly), or more likely, Bonza has a cash flow problem and can’t afford to refund everyone at once, so is doing it gradually instead.

That message implies if you have a return fare they’ll only refund the cancelled outbound and not the inbound, you’d have to wait for them to cancel that as well.

 

[Harrison_133]

That message implies if you have a return fare they’ll only refund the cancelled outbound and not the inbound, you’d have to wait for them to cancel that as well.

My trip is only one way but I’ve seen a few comments from others with that scenario, and you’re right. They’re only refunding the cancelled flight. If you’ve still got a return flight, tough luck.

I’ve also read a few comments from people who booked self-connecting itineraries — with plenty of leeway I might add. One example, Darwin to Gold Coast cancelled, Gold Coast to Albury still operating. Passenger was automatically moved onto the Maroochydore flight, with Bonza refusing to also refund the OOL-ABX flight, or at least move them to MCY-ABX.

Regulatory issues aside, they’ve well and truly dropped the ball with their communication on this one.

 

[justinbrett]

My trip is only one way but I’ve seen a few comments from others with that scenario, and you’re right. They’re only refunding the cancelled flight. If you’ve still got a return flight, tough luck.

I’ve also read a few comments from people who booked self-connecting itineraries — with plenty of leeway I might add. One example, Darwin to Gold Coast cancelled, Gold Coast to Albury still operating. Passenger was automatically moved onto the Maroochydore flight, with Bonza refusing to also refund the OOL-ABX flight, or at least move them to MCY-ABX.

Regulatory issues aside, they’ve well and truly dropped the ball with their communication on this one.

Yeah I was only ever going one way (was always flying QF BNE-BDB in the morning of the same day). If I was in the above situations I'd probably try a credit card chargeback - certainly for the return flight as you paid for a return ticket. The self connection one is a bit more difficult.

I don't know how they come back from this. I can't imagine they were making much (if any) profit before, I have to think bookings will start drying up at least for the next couple of months until people forget about it. The average person looking for a cheap ticket will think twice now if there's a risk they'll be stranded. Bonza should have been bending over backwards to look after people and keep its reputation but it's been doing the exact opposite.

I just hope I get my refund before they run out of cash, but I have somewhat written it off (I only spent $70).

 

[N860CR]

Pretty incredible that a foreign owned company thought they could import foreign aircraft with foreign crew and operate domestic flights, without it potentially throwing up a flag!

Yeah, it’s Canada. Whats all this aboot? Where’s my moose? We love aoosies? Why can’t we? Well I can’t just pack up and move to Canada and run my business.

This sets a dangerous precedent. Virgin Australia (operated by Virgin Australia Indonesia)? Whats the difference?

The quicker we get this operation out of our skies the better.

 

[Albert Hoffman]

Well I can’t just pack up and move to Canada and run my business.

Well, Actually you could, with a bit of legwork.

Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP)

The Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) is a free trade agreement (FTA) between Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam.

www.dfat.gov.au

And on the Canadian site it states

• New commitments on temporary entry of business people make it easier for certain categories of Canadian business persons to Australia, including high-skilled Canadian professionals and technicians as well as their spouses.

CPTPP partner: Australia

The Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) is a trading block that represents 495 million people with a combined gross domestic product of CAD $13.5 trillion – a full 13.5% of global GDP. Through the CPTPP, Canada will soon have preferential access to half...

www.international.gc.ca

I imagine the same would would apply to Oztralians wishing to move and do business in Canuck Land.

 

[Saab34]

The paperwork from CASA seems rather straightforward. Comes with a review period once submitted.

I guess it’s the ‘questions’ that follow the submission which takes time. Would be a lot of back and forth, and they only work 9-5 M-F in Canberra from experience.

Not what the rules are around engineering, and if they can just use Bonza’s current arm and providers to service Flair aircraft. Likely one of the many questions being asked.

 

[Brissy1]

I just hope I get my refund before they run out of cash, but I have somewhat written it off

I don't think it's at that stage, yet, but won't you be able to get cr card chargeback if it happens? Or are there insolvency exclusions. Can't remember what happened with previous au airline failures (thinking back, gee there's been quite a few!)

 

[N860CR]

Well, Actually you could, with a bit of legwork.

Don’t think I can take my Australian staff and pay them according to Australian conditions in Australian dollars with no valid visa.

 

[Saab34]

Its Flair offshoot has 300-400m of loans at 18% from 777.

I don’t think Bonza will have issues getting cash, the loans are a profit machine for 777. Whoever takes the keys from Bonza will need to deal with that debt, assuming the debt is tied to 777 on multi year terms.

777 is the winner again. Nobody knows how much Bonza has loaned from 777, however with all this mess you could guess they have taken further funds from them. The two MAX jets would be on terms of at least $1m month between them. Crew costs would be considerable also.

 

[justinbrett]

Its Flair offshoot has 300-400m of loans at 18% from 777.

I don’t think Bonza will have issues getting cash, the loans are a profit machine for 777. Whoever takes the keys from Bonza will need to deal with that debt, assuming the debt is tied to 777 on multi year terms.

777 is the winner again. Nobody knows how much Bonza has loaned from 777, however with all this mess you could guess they have taken further funds from them. The two MAX jets would be on terms of at least $1m month between them. Crew costs would be considerable also.

Not much good if Bonza goes into administration before they can sell it. And who on earth would buy it now.

Then it is 777's problem.

 

[Saab34]

Don’t think they will let it slide into administration. They have continued to loan cash to Flair and they will continue to do so here. They also have aircraft deliveries they need to slot it with Bonza.

The next couple of months will likely be a both messy in Bonza land, and won’t probably improve until they get another 3 aircraft, 2 for OOL and 1 spare. Then perhaps they should just sit on that for a year or two, then Western Sydney opens.

Sitting around on 6 ish aircraft doesn’t bring scale or profits either. So they will need to grow considerably, growing brings its own challenges. You can see why nobody invests in airlines.

 

[justinbrett]

Don’t think they will let it slide into administration. They have continued to loan cash to Flair and they will continue to do so here. They also have aircraft deliveries they need to slot it with Bonza.

The next couple of months will likely be a both messy in Bonza land, and won’t probably improve until they get another 3 aircraft, 2 for OOL and 1 spare. Then perhaps they should just sit on that for a year or two, then Western Sydney opens.

Sitting around on 6 ish aircraft doesn’t bring scale or profits either. So they will need to grow considerably, growing brings its own challenges. You can see why nobody invests in airlines.

Unless they're interest free loans, there comes a time (quick) where they can't service the interest of the loans. That is insolvency.

Bigger companies have failed for less.

In any case if the debt builds to a certain level, it creates a hole it's never going to get out of, making Bonza unsellable. If Bonza had a good business model where they could be raking in J fares this might not be a problem, but when the max fare on most flights is closer to $100, they're up cough creek.

 

[Saab34]

It’s a bizarre setup. Flair has already said its day of reckoning will be coming soon, as it’s financially stuck in a rut. Considering they have probably burnt half a billion in cash in Canada, no reason why that won’t happen here. Tiger burnt $1b over its time here.

Probably best to buy out Bonza while still in its infancy before they burn mega bucks. Sadly this whole Flair drama has cost them many millions.

Looking at Flair’s situation, I see no reason why anyone would go near it with its debt situation. Bonza doesn’t carry much baggage, well yet.

 

[MooTime]

Probably best to buy out Bonza while still in its infancy before they burn mega bucks. Sadly this whole Flair drama has cost them many millions.

What's to buyout at Bonza???

 

[Saab34]

What's to buyout at Bonza???

They put a $100m valuation on it.

Who knows how they came to that conclusion. The bit where all the cash is tied to high interest loans and re leased aircraft at premium prices is enough to scare me off.

Always someone who wants bragging rights to own an airline. Twiggy said he was interested in Virgin at one point.

 

[justinbrett]

They put a $100m valuation on it.

Who knows how they came to that conclusion. The bit where all the cash is tied to high interest loans and re leased aircraft at premium prices is enough to scare me off.

Always someone who wants bragging rights to own an airline. Twiggy said he was interested in Virgin at one point.

The true value is only what someone is willing to pay for it. I'd suggest that's in the negative territory right now.

Completely different buying an airline with assets and reputation (like VA) even if in financial strife than to buy an airline with virtually no assets, a bad reputation and in financial strife. Better off remaining on the sidelines and picking up the remains from the administrators.

 

[HS-TQE]

REX and Bonza (as with Virgin) has very limited to virtually no unencumbered assets. I suspect/assume that Bonza has no Assets with everything basically leased. REX group I'd assume their SAABs are unencumbered/owned, although very minimal value at most.

At least in VA's case, a handful (4x) of 20-year old VB-era 738s (non BSI) as well as the two legacy 73Gs are now unencumbered (Value of the 20-year-old VA aircraft, IIRC was subsequently written down to Zero) whilst renegotiating mortgage arrangements with the remaining 23 mortgaged 738s.

 

[Brissy1]

The true value is only what someone is willing to pay for it. I'd suggest that's in the negative territory right now.

Completely different buying an airline with assets and reputation (like VA) even if in financial strife than to buy an airline with virtually no assets, a bad reputation and in financial strife. Better off remaining on the sidelines and picking up the remains from the administrators.

AirNZ offered Ansett for $1. No takers. (admittedly after piling it up with more debit, sad).

 

[justinbrett]

Are they serious? Surely at this point they're just trolling us.

Bonza toys with Canberra take-off | Canberra CityNews

Australia's newest airline could be adding Canberra to its routes, but not just yet, reports SCOTT MAYMAN.

citynews.com.au

 

[Saab34]

Trying to cover waaaaaaay too much too soon.

They need to just stick to one or two bases for the first couple of years.