Bonza Airline Discussion

[Harrison_133]

Unknown as to when Flair starts, seems like they have pulled an aircraft from MEL to OOL base for the moments.

Perhaps still trying to get approval

They pulled an aircraft out of the MEL base when they rejigged the schedule a while ago. MCY has 3 aircraft stationed there now, so they’d be using the spare for initial OOL ops.

Friday/Saturday flights will also be flown by a Bonza aircraft. Sunday is the first day for Flair at this stage.

 

[A321]

Flonza (Flair) still yet to take to the skies. Seems like it keeps getting pushed by a couple of days at a time. Services continue to be operated by Bonza metal.

 

[dk4]

It's not really Flair operated, more of a Flair wet lease, which is different.

I don't think you need to sell as (operated by x) for a wet lease.

How does an Australian registered domestic airline, operate a wet lease using a foreign airline crew and aircraft, on a purely domestic route?

Surely if this was possible; then we would have an influx of domestic shell companies set up by foreign airlines, and the domestic shell company would then wet lease their entire domestic fleet and staff from the foreign parent, to operate domestic only services in Australia? (And no Australians would be employed as flight or cabin crew at all.)

 

[Harrison_133]

Flonza (Flair) still yet to take to the skies. Seems like it keeps getting pushed by a couple of days at a time. Services continue to be operated by Bonza metal.

Friday is the first day for Flair apparently.

 

[HS-TQE]

Friday is the first day for Flair apparently.

If it sticks this time. It would slowly start becoming one stealth like screwup if delayed again due to the mentioned issues.

 

[Harrison_133]

If it sticks this time. It would slowly start becoming one stealth like screwup if delayed again due to the mentioned issues.

Friday is what has been circulated to Bonza staff, so hopefully a bit more accurate than the app.

 

[justinbrett]

How does an Australian registered domestic airline, operate a wet lease using a foreign airline crew and aircraft, on a purely domestic route?

Surely if this was possible; then we would have an influx of domestic shell companies set up by foreign airlines, and the domestic shell company would then wet lease their entire domestic fleet and staff from the foreign parent, to operate domestic only services in Australia? (And no Australians would be employed as flight or cabin crew at all.)

Well it is possible, it’s happening.

I mean most of your description fits VA, except it doesn’t currently wet lease through a foreign airline. I don’t think anything is stopping them though.

VA uses similar shenanigans to operate Australian international flights despite being a foreign owned airline.

 

[HS-TQE]

Not really exclusive to VB/VA. Ansett used it when they were wholly owned by NZ.

REX and Bonza (as foreign owned Australian Domestic Carriers) could also set up international subsidiaries the same way Ansett did and Virgin do if they wish to expand to NZ or the Pacific Islands in the future.

 

[dk4]

I mean most of your description fits VA, except it doesn’t currently wet lease through a foreign airline.

Ummmm, my entire point is about the wet leasing a foreign airline for purely domestic service, not sure how setting up a local company structure, to fly internationally, which would employ Australians to do so, is even a relevant example.

This is about setting up a domestic airline, and crewing it with foreign staff.

I think that Jetstar would be the closest example, not Virgin. And Jetstar only does this on domestic sectors of international flights. I feel fairly certain, that if it was at all possible to import foreign staff to fly solely domestic services, then Jetstar would already be doing it!

 

[Saab34]

Why hasn’t any other operator taken up this opportunity before? Is it just the sheer cost of having such a crew that makes it unviable?

Certainly the others could have done with some ‘extra padding’ in the schedule in recent years with assistance from other wet lease providers.

 

[justinbrett]

Ummmm, my entire point is about the wet leasing a foreign airline for purely domestic service, not sure how setting up a local company structure, to fly internationally, which would employ Australians to do so, is even a relevant example.

This is about setting up a domestic airline, and crewing it with foreign staff.

I think that Jetstar would be the closest example, not Virgin. And Jetstar only does this on domestic sectors of international flights. I feel fairly certain, that if it was at all possible to import foreign staff to fly solely domestic services, then Jetstar would already be doing it!

The main determiner of what is classed as an Australian airline, is the nationality of the airline business. It must be Australian. For domestic it ends there, for international it has an additional requirement of being majority Australian owned. (Ie, Australian domestic can be foreign owned, but the business itself must be Australian). It is not the nationality of the crew nor the country the aircraft is registered. I brought up the VA international example as it too is setup to meet these requirements.

Australian international airlines are more heavily regulated than domestic airlines (hence ownership restriction above), and yet QF had no problem wetleasing from AY. Bonza wetleasing from Flair is perfectly legal. Of course, Jetstar are using international crews on JQ (Australian) flights.

Now if a domestic airline solely wetleased - I'm not sure, the government might decide that doesn't meet the threshold of an Australian airline; however there is provision in Australian international air licences for them to be exclusively wetleased. In any case this isn't what's happening here, it's a seasonal surge.

Could JQ wetlease from 3K to operate DRW-SIN? I really can't see why they couldn't (although I don't know why they would).

 

[Harrison_133]

Could JQ wetlease from 3K to operate DRW-SIN? I really can't see why they couldn't (although I don't know why they would).

I think it’s been done before? My memory is a bit fuzzy but I think there was a period where 3K operated CNS-DRW-SIN on JQ flight numbers many years ago. JQ57/58 rings a bell.

There was definitely a period where a 3K aircraft/crew operated that sort of service for JQ.

In other Bonza news, cabin crew were injured yesterday when a Rockhampton to Sunshine Coast flight experienced unexpected severe turbulence:

https://www.news.com.au/travel/trav...ws-story/cbc81c6e73b962dd5babbc559a7188ed?amp

 

[oz_mark]

Ummmm, my entire point is about the wet leasing a foreign airline for purely domestic service, not sure how setting up a local company structure, to fly internationally, which would employ Australians to do so, is even a relevant example.

This is about setting up a domestic airline, and crewing it with foreign staff.

I think that Jetstar would be the closest example, not Virgin. And Jetstar only does this on domestic sectors of international flights. I feel fairly certain, that if it was at all possible to import foreign staff to fly solely domestic services, then Jetstar would already be doing it!

The issue with foreign staff operating purely domestic services would be having to deal with the migration/visa situations. Even for tag flights, I think they need a special visa subclass

 

[justinbrett]

The issue with foreign staff operating purely domestic services would be having to deal with the migration/visa situations. Even for tag flights, I think they need a special visa subclass

They're handed out like candy though. Not difficult to get with an appropriate sponsor (ie Australian airline).

 

[Harrison_133]

Schedule has now been extended with all routes on sale through to September 1st 2024. Also, they have 20% off during selected travel dates in 2024 using the promo code ‘PURPLE’

 

[Saab34]

Amazed that Tamworth and Toowoomba are continuing that far.

OOL still showing Flair seat maps which is odd?

 

[justinbrett]

I just booked on BDB-OOL for mid Dec. $8 extra for row 2 isn't bad. Hopefully the flight occurs as I've booked QF BNE-BDB in the morning the same day.

Annoying you can't pay with Amex.

 

[dajop]

I just booked on BDB-OOL for mid Dec. $8 extra for row 2 isn't bad. Hopefully the flight occurs as I've booked QF BNE-BDB in the morning the same day.

Annoying you can't pay with Amex.

Which of the two flights are you more worried about occurring?

(Rhetorical questions QF is I assume operated by QFlink which seems to be doing OK from a reliability perspective other than SYD/CBR).

 

[justinbrett]

Which of the two flights are you more worried about occurring?

(Rhetorical questions QF is I assume operated by QFlink which seems to be doing OK from a reliability perspective other than SYD/CBR).

The one that runs twice a week, not the one that runs three times a day.

 

[dajop]

The one that runs twice a week, not the one that runs three times a day.

I was just having a joke at Qantas's expense.

In any event, if they have to cancel, Bonza might even put on a bus to get you there

(I kid you not, they did that for MQL-MEL pax once when one of the flight crew called in sick and they had to cancel. I guess some would have taken a refund, but for some folk, probably better to arrive 5 hrs late, that evening, than have to wait several days or rebook on QF or ZL at much higher cost the next morning).