Building a stronger Qantas

[ajw373]

Just what the world needs: more airlines, more websites, more booking systems, etc, none of which will talk to each other.

What a pity they didn't try to do something innovative, like creating a virtual airline across the entire oneworld alliance where customers had the ability to access the value add stuff (eg choose seats, access upgrades, etc) across the network rather than the half-hearted attempt we have now.

Clearly one of the reasons why OneWorld is the 2nd placed alliance. As I mentioned before I wonder why some of the airlines even bothered to join. At least the majority of the star members work closer together, whilst of course still taking care of their own needs.

 

[medhead]

Who said Qantas international wasn't getting any new aircraft? If I am not mistaken they have a fleet of not so old A380's and A330's and 6 of the 747's are not what could be called old. Qantas (excluding Jetstar for a second) are meant to be getting 787's, which are for domestic 767 replacement and Qantas growth, which to me points international rather than domestic.

Excluding new aircraft for a second, how does Qantas international return to profit and grow? Simple by having Qantas owned airlines at hub points flying to destinations Qantas couldn't justify flying to from Australia, feeding those passengers destined for Australia onto Qantas aircraft instead of onto the likes of Thai and Singapore.

Did you miss the bit where Joyce said no capital expenditure for qantas international. 6 A380s deferred until 2019. Refurb some of the 747s and soldier on with those, until 6 of them will be replaced with the deferred A380s. Basically no expansion plan for now and do less as well. Plenty of others have outlined this in the thread already. It has also been announced that the first 787s are going to jetstar, IIRC. But I was specifically talking about qantas international not domestic, so the 787s going to qantas domestic is somewhat irrelevant.

As for what they can do to expand, interesting. But how is letting me fly to Asia via SYD and somewhere else better than flying direct from ADL? How does that help me get to a variety of destinations in Europe more effectively? Sure they are going to get access to heaps of growth in Asia, but that is not for Qantas international, it is for the new airlines.

 

[jwak]

Well just to be different I am really pleased. I travel Asia/Europe at least 8 times a year. Better times to HKG on 29 to meet the BA flight, hopefully another SYD/MEL-BKK(to pick up the BA slack) and hopefully twice daily MEL-SIN. On top of the a new premium carrier to China.

There's my 10 cents worth.

JWAK

 

[goldy]

My humble apologies for going slightly off topic, but as you can see Qantas has been a big part of my life, maybe not as much as many members here, but a part none-the-less.

Dont apologise. This is what annoys me the most about Qantas. Hearing stories like yours and what Qantas meant to you and what you once meant to Qantas versus what it means now is just sad.

AJ... are you listening??

 

[RSD]

Will QFF members get the full benefits of their status on this new Qwontarse based somewhere in Asia?

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Just as Jet Connect serve all NZ flights, it seems the majority of international flights will be served by another offshore entity that neatly gets around Australian wages, safety, working conditions, etc.

Can any AFF member dig up and info on QF FA's + Pilots wages?
I would like to compare QF, SQ, LH and a US Carrier FA+Pilot wages.


Just to add, Fly-Swiss made this remark on FT;

[TABLE="class: tborder, width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: alt1, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]In all that, isn't the main problem of qantas a huge cost base ?
If we were to compare QF in terms of salaries, indemnities for cabin crew and so on with LH, BA, AF and othere similar airlines what would that be ?

I saw the old Swissair go burst because of unflexible cost base, bad management and arrogance. The new Swiss Intl Airlines is now much more efficient, salaries are more reasonable and more comparable with other airlines. They also try to stay in a premium segment rather than the middle market segment.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Justchecking]

So the number if people flying QF out of Australia is dwindling and the fix is.....forget about people flying out of AUS and concentrate on a foreign market where you have little expertise thats saturated by native airlines who undoubtedly understand the market, and their passengers better than you do....excuse me while I calculate the veritable canyon of logical disconnection here.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

Oh dear, I even signed up to coughter so I could follow the announcement.

Found this exchange interesting:





Why to I always get a tight feeling in my nether regions when QF mention Platinums like that ... if they are planning on "looking after us" the way they have with recent enhancements, I'm very concerned.

Platinum has already been devalued as almost as far as you can go. There is not much difference between Gold and Platinum benefits these days. Platinum One will capture the high value fliers leaving a group of fliers who will work hard to aim for Platinum One and another group who will give up and stick with Gold focussing on another carrier as well (which is what I have done). Eventually, QF could merge or abolish the Platinum tier.

 

[wannabaff]

Just got the email times to go our after the news conference:

This is spin. When you read it, what does it actually say of substance. Continuing to be owned by Australian shareholders is just an Australian Govt requirement. If Qantas is my Australian airline, then it is not only providing airline services to Australians, but is also based here and providing jobs, training, and maintaining the safety standards and service standards that we have experienced in the past. Having just flown MEL-AUK-LAX-VAN-SFO-LAX (the SFO-LAX leg on AA with very poor communications to delayed passengers at LAX), the only great thing I can say is that the pilot got us safely through a night of turbulence. The amount of plastic being handed out for the on-board service is appalling (and presumably costs a lot - maybe a better approach to sustainability would assist in cost savings).
I'd like my Qantas back that flew to lots of destinations, had good quality service, had happy staff crewing the flight, and was an enjoyable experience for passengers coming home or looking forward to a trip. Why are we destroying it?

 

[chonetsao.co.uk]

Have been through all 31 pages of replies. I notice some trends:

1>, Most people are unhappy with the codeshares, not because of QF metal being great experience, but rather clearly that they think BA is cough in thje way that BA has little or none consideration for QF passengers.

2>, People debate on the new Qantas Asian unit seems did not read the news that Qantas intends to base the new airline in either KUL or SIN. Which is the cornor of SE Asia, aka doing little to Chinese market. Will people in China be able to fly from China to Japan via Sin? Possible but I would imagine 99 out 100 would rather not. If QF is going to waste money to set up a new airline in the cornor of East Asia and hope foolish people from China will buy it. Good luck. So I guess either the press or AJ got it wrong.

3>, Set up an airline in China is not that difficult if you have the right source. the legislation would allow it, with a maximum of 49% investment. But whether airline industry would open up for foreign direct investment under WTO agreement is questionable since I do not have the stats. However, I would say if QF is keen on a China market oriented airline. It is possible for them to make an offer to one of the smaller local carrier provided that 99% of employees are Chinese and capital investment is below 49%. Otherwise, I would recommend Macau, Hong Kong or Taiwan being the best geographic located for intra-Asia flights. However again according to the news, QF is burying themselves in the option of either KUL or SIN.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

That's not the case actually. There are no plans to replace Australian crew or aircraft on flights out of Australia.

You are correct. No Australian crew/flights will be REPLACED, they are being CANCELLED with staff being offered voluntary redundancy.
Not exactly positive.

The plan is for the new airline to service destinations outside of Australia from a location outside of Australia, with the flights from Australia being operated by Qantas using Australian based crews paid Australian wages etc.

You cannot be that naive...this is Jet Connect II for QF International - join the dots.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

Dear Qantas,

If you expand your code sharing agreements, please look to ensure that when I book I can then select my seats online as normal. Please make sure Qantas systems 'talk' to the other airlines systems.

Don't make me have to ring a call centre who then give a message that they too can only select Aisle or Window but to "not worry as a WP I'll be assured a good seat". But then only to find I'm up the back somewhere next to the toilet. I also like to look for better seats as they become available. I also like to ensure the aircraft type hasn't changed at the last minute.

To me seat selection is important. I fly Qantas when Qantas fly end-to-end (or the majority of the route). Where Qantas doesn't I now use an airline that does. Failing that, I fall back to Qantas.

Personally, I hate code share. Typically I often find my WP benefits don't seem to carry across or don't carry the full "value" with the other airline.

So I have no issue with code sharing. Just make it transparent to me. Make it look like Qantas. Make it look like what I'm used to using. Don't make me have to learn something else when I just want to get somewhere.

May be I've just been unlucky.

I am with you. I hate it too. Watching the Silver American Airlines customers invited up to business class before the One World Platinums is quite galling

 

[Martin J Cowling]

Will BKK still be QF1 \ 2 or will they now route QF1 \ 2 via SIN?

Thats a good question!

 

[connieguy]

...However again according to the news, QF is burying themselves in the option of either KUL or SIN.

JQ's Asian base / hub is already in SIN.
QF have an existing J and F Lounge in SIN.
QF are building a new F Lounge in SIN.

So with reasonable JQ/QF infrastructure already there, JQ knowledge of the local market, no OW hub there, I would suggest SIN is more a top runner than a virgin airport. The big question with me is who are QF investing with in this JV to build a new premium Asian based airline? One would suggest this new QF group airline will not be welcome by either MH or CX unless they are involved in the JV, which I would not expect to happen. So who are the other investors, BA, AA or a non airline investor?

 

[ajw373]

Did you miss the bit where Joyce said no capital expenditure for qantas international. 6 A380s deferred until 2019. Refurb some of the 747s and soldier on with those, until 6 of them will be replaced with the deferred A380s. Basically no expansion plan for now and do less as well. Plenty of others have outlined this in the thread already. It has also been announced that the first 787s are going to jetstar, IIRC. But I was specifically talking about qantas international not domestic, so the 787s going to qantas domestic is somewhat irrelevant.

Clearly you missed the opening headline on one of Qantas many media releases that said "Qantas today announced it will invest almost $400 million in new international lounges, new inflight entertainment and aircraft refurbishment to improve the customer experience." Sounds like capital expenditure and improvements to me, although yes your right no new aircraft and 6 deferrals that were specifically mentioned with that money being used elsewhere (presumably in areas that can generate more return on that money). My point with the 787's though was Qantas (the airline) is getting a heap of them, more than enough to replace the 767's so where do you reckon the rest may well end up? Who knows some may well end up with Qantas international, in fact they would be ideal aircraft to fly from the major capitals to the hub of the new offshore airline, leaving the A380's to serve the long thin routes towards the America's. Now I know your going to say that Jetstar will do the flying top the offshore hub, but to be honest I think not, if that's what the plan was then there is no point for the new Asian airline to be a premium carrier it would just be an expansion of Jetstar asia.

As for what they can do to expand, interesting. But how is letting me fly to Asia via SYD and somewhere else better than flying direct from ADL? How does that help me get to a variety of destinations in Europe more effectively? Sure they are going to get access to heaps of growth in Asia, but that is not for Qantas international, it is for the new airlines.

Who said you would be flying via Sydney and who said that a route you could already fly direct from Adelaide to is still not going to be there? I was talking about new opportunities generated by this new offshore airline by giving connection options (offshore) on the same group, as opposed to the current method which is to fly to an offshore hub with Qantas or on another airline then fly a non Qantas airline. The routes I am talking about are ones where direct flights to/from Australia are unviable do to distance and low traffic volumes, but viable when combined with other ports at the hub.

For example soon I am flying to Colombo. My options are fly to Singapore with Qantas or SQ then SQ to Colombo. Do the same to Bangkok with Qantas or Thai, then Thai to Colombo, or even go the long way to Hong Kong on Qantas or CX and then down with Cathay or maybe even Emirates to Dubai then back track. Now there is no hope that a direct flight could be justified from Australia, and if there was it would only be from one port, so the arguments about hubbing through Sydney or Melbourne etc would crop up, so to me if this new airline flew to Colombo out of the hub location served by Qantas then I have a one group flight, rather than being forced to change airlines mid way or fly another airline all the way.

 

[jamesatfish]

We are planning to implement a new wifi infrastructure platform across all our lounges (domestic and international). We are aiming to have the rollout to our key ports completed by end Nov with the smaller regional lounges implemented by Q1 2012.

Thanks Red Roo - glad to see the lounge connectivity issues are being addressed with some definite timeframes for completion.

 

[ajw373]

JQ's Asian base / hub is already in SIN.
QF have an existing J and F Lounge in SIN.
QF are building a new F Lounge in SIN.

So with reasonable JQ/QF infrastructure already there, JQ knowledge of the local market, no OW hub there, I would suggest SIN is more a top runner than a virgin airport. The big question with me is who are QF investing with in this JV to build a new premium Asian based airline? One would suggest this new QF group airline will not be welcome by either MH or CX unless they are involved in the JV, which I would not expect to happen. So who are the other investors, BA, AA or a non airline investor?

It certainly makes sense, especially as Singapore already has flights from most Australian capital, albeit not every city on a daily basis. The question though is which market is this new airline going for. If primarily China then I would lean towards Hong Kong, but if Asia in general than Singapore makes sense, with KL as 2nd option.

 

[Bob]

Sad day for Qantas...all about profit and nothing more. I understand a business needs profit, but a truly great business can be profitable AND serve the needs of both its customers and employees.

I agree - of course a business needs to be profitable - in the same way that we need air to enable us to breathe. But for what purpose do we breathe? Surely not just to breathe air!

I would suggest that a truly great business (e.g. one that will thrive for another 90 years) must constantly remain true to a purpose that is worthy of all its stakeholders - in Qantas case a purpose that really does reflect the spirit of Australia.

In my view if you have enough front to claim you are the spirit of Australia then you had damn well better have a purpose that resonates with Australians.

 

[ajw373]

You are correct. No Australian crew/flights will be REPLACED, they are being CANCELLED with staff being offered voluntary redundancy.
Not exactly positive.

Sometimes in business you need to contract to grow, so don't see an issue.

You cannot be that naive...this is Jet Connect II for QF International - join the dots.

It may well be the case, however I don't believe so. If anything this is a good compromise of having offshore people serving offshore passengers at offshore rates, and Australians serving Australian routes at Australian rates. And besides I don't believe in conspiracy theories.

 

[jwak]

For example soon I am flying to Colombo. My options are fly to Singapore with Qantas or SQ then SQ to Colombo. Do the same to Bangkok with Qantas or Thai, then Thai to Colombo, or even go the long way to Hong Kong on Qantas or CX and then down with Cathay or maybe even Emirates to Dubai then back track. Now there is no hope that a direct flight could be justified from Australia, and if there was it would only be from one port, so the arguments about hubbing through Sydney or Melbourne etc would crop up, so to me if this new airline flew to Colombo out of the hub location served by Qantas then I have a one group flight, rather than being forced to change airlines mid way or fly another airline all the way.

I agree. For those people not going to the major ports the new airline would suit. It remains to be seen if it will be part of the group though....