Building a stronger Qantas

[Martin J Cowling]

The changes Alan referred to this morning regarding Gold and Silver bonuses is referring to the changes that were made in May. We are not making any further changes to the Qantas Frequent Flyer program as a result of todays announcements. Apologies if this caused any confusion.

Generally Platinum members fly in the premium cabins more than anyone else and therefore the May changes (PY 25-50%, J 50-75% and First 50-100%) were designed to be of benefit to our Platinum members.

Plus, a big benefit to Platinum members and First class travellers, we will be establishing Marc Newson First lounges in LA, Singapore and Hong Kong . And the combined size of our First and Buiness lounges in LA will be three times bigger than today.

Also, as I just mentioned in a previous reply, Qantas Frequent Flyers will be able to earn frequent flyer points and status credits on the new premium airline based in Asia and redeem these through the Qantas Frequent Flyer program. So this will give Platinums a whole new opportunity to earn points and Status credits when they travel.

I hope the above makes you feel better about travelling Qantas as we would hate to lose you.

Cheers,
Red Roo

Too late at my end. Well a reduction as I could not see benefits of Platinum anymore and the way QF handled my concerns about their dishonesty over "enhancements" was so appalling that it was clear I wasnt really valued.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

It's nice to have official confirmation.

Just like we can assume that Qantas would position it for OW membership, but it's not official...

I have been poring over a map to try and figure where this new airline would be. Surely it wouldn't be where there are exisiting OW partners (remove Hong Kong, Tokyo, KL etc..). Would it be where OW are weak? e.g. Mainland China?

For myself, I would love it if OW had an airline in China using one of the main Southern cities as a base. Kunming would be an awesome place to start. Geographically very good as a hub, with a decent sized local population. Any other ideas?

surely its singapore? but who is the partner?

 

[medhead]

My point is that these people used to fly on QANTAS, at higher fares, when LCCs didn't exist.
Now that LCCs do exist, and people are flying them, there is continual downward pressure on prices, especially at the bottom end of the market.

Is moving even further up market a possible strategy? Yes, it could be. But like BMW (mentioned earlier), you can't really do that and be as large as you would be if you were mass market.

I don't agree, people who are flying LCCs now used to drive, take the bus or train. Certainly I did as a teen/young 20 something. $90 BNE to CNS on the train vs $300+ by air. Easy. Low airfares are converting those people who would never fly, over to flying; that is the growth market for LCCs. Sure LCCs push down airfares and Qantas seems to be playing that game, which results in the cost reduction based erosion of the product and declining service standards. Rather than going upmarket, I'm suggesting is that Qantas could maintain it's standards and pricing, and live up to the marketing line of being a premium airline. The people and groups who used to fly with them would then still fly with them. Jetstar taking on the LCC market and then profit considered as a group. Instead Qantas is trashing it's brand as a premium airline with cost cutting, due to treating each part of the Group as a silo instead of part of a whole.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

Dan Warne was pretty close back in May with this article:
Qantas to launch a premium Asian airline? - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

Now he comes out with a new one today:
Qantas to launch premium Asian airline, but it's "not Qantas" - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

He speculates that it will be to compete with Singapore Airlines and may be based in KL or SIN (or other) in order to capture the growing Chinese market and intra-asia traffic.

I still think KL or SIN is smoke and mirrors and that the hub will be closer to Southern China...

definitely wont be KL because its will become a OW hub with MH. My money is on SIN.

 

[Martin J Cowling]

Hi guys, just to be clear I'm answering the right question 'will the upgrade rules on partner airlines' be relaxed? If that's the question, then sadly the answer is no- you're still unable to use your points to upgrade on partner airlines

big fail

 

[Mrmaxwell]

A few more points/questions:

- where are the 1000 job cuts (sorry voluntary redundancies) coming from? Pilots? Cabin crew? Frequent flyer staff? What is the breakdown? AJ has advised 400 cabin crew have already taken VR in 2011!
- how does spending $400 million save the $200 million loss currently incurred by QFi
- Why does AJ harp on about QFi drops in PAX numbers as justification for cutting up QFi? Bad service & old planes are a big reason people have left QFi
- How many QFi pilots will take up AJ's offer to go to JQ under "JQ's terms and conditions"
- Can you believe AJ alluded to the downfall of Pan Am, TWA and Ansett as reasons for this change (2GB interview with Ross Greenwood)

Finally, how can the QF board allow AJ and team to engineer such drastic changes when the QF share price has performed so poorly under his guidance?

 

[Martin J Cowling]

JQ's Asian base / hub is already in SIN.
QF have an existing J and F Lounge in SIN.
QF are building a new F Lounge in SIN.

So with reasonable JQ/QF infrastructure already there, JQ knowledge of the local market, no OW hub there, I would suggest SIN is more a top runner than a virgin airport. The big question with me is who are QF investing with in this JV to build a new premium Asian based airline? One would suggest this new QF group airline will not be welcome by either MH or CX unless they are involved in the JV, which I would not expect to happen. So who are the other investors, BA, AA or a non airline investor?

I agree and like you am interested in the partner

 

[wandering_fred]

QF international needs to fly to its SE Asian connection points from PER/ADL/BNE/DRW at least daily to begin to be competitive / interesting choices for most travelers. SIN-PER (2daily) and BNE-SIN (1daily) are the only ones that meet that test. DRW-SIN gets a daily codeshare with Jetstar (with arrival in DRW of 04:25 ??)

Partner (?) CX PER-HKG (10x weekly) BNE-HKG (daily) ADL-HKG (daily albeit with a stop) seems more interested. At least for the moment I have little pleasure in the CX seats and would prefer QFs. But QF 3weekly PER-HKG makes the choice difficult. Competing airlines (EK SQ and MH) normally are more than 7 weekly into PER.
Air Asia is considering more than 7 weekly.

How is QF proposing to connect to this new premium airline (or 3K) in SE Asia from anywhere other than SYD/MEL? Will we see the first daily PER-SIN moved early enough to actually connect in SEAsia rather than only to QF/BA long haul flights? International flights need another widebody (or two) to offer competitive schedules.

Secondly QF needs to reduce the irritations that the more frequent flyers see:
1. The seat choice process/selection with ALL partner airlines with which through ticketing is enabled.
2. Where is the priority boarding that elite FFers have earned?
3. Where are the Premium Economy seats on the 7+ hour regional overnight flights?

Fred

 

[JohnK]

Hard to see anything but negativity in this announcement and another step closer to the end of QF and the continued expansion of Jetstar.

Problem: Qantas does not have a desirable international market share
Solution: Reduce mainline QF international flights and create a new airline to service new routes with single aisle A320s.

I want to be able to have a choice of QF flights into major Asian cities and adding more codesharing, creating a new airline in Asia or transferring routes to Jetstar is definitely not the solution.

 

[goldy]

I am with you. I hate it too. Watching the Silver American Airlines customers invited up to business class before the One World Platinums is quite galling

Hold on there a sec... Why should AA reward you over one of its own?? Youd all be kicking and screaming till the cows came home if QF dared upgrade an AA EXP over a QF SG!

On another note, and im no expert on the AA way, but as I understand it, a lot of them (read: most) aren't complimentary upgrades. AA use 500mile coupons that you as a OW elite don't get. So again, why should you score a freebie when AA silvers are redeeming coupons?

Personally, I think each airline should reward its own first and then those of partner airlines. Im not certain if i think it should be on a same level basis or across the board, meaning AA emerald then OW emerald, then AA sapphire followed by OW sapphire, or AA emerald, sapphire, ruby followed by OW emerald, sapphire, ruby. Im also not sure how you'd differentiate between various OW emeralds ie: would a BA emerald get preference over an IB emerald??

There are always three sides to everything gents, and IMO its vital to keep a lot of perspective and a lot less selfishness. just my 2p

 

[Flying mermaid]

As an aside: the "As one of our most valued customers" bar is pretty low!

I just got the email from AJ and i'm QF bronze and have caught exactly one Qantas flight in the last year (plus a few J* due to my frequent MEL-NTL trips and a few CX flights credited to QF).

Still it's good to know i'm one of their 8million or so "most valued customers." Would be slightly more honest to address me as "As someone who occasionally uses our airline."

We have 1 gold member, 3 silver and 1 bronze in the family - all using my e-mail address, so it is always funny to see the e-mails come in. The Gold one arrived at 10:21 the 3 silver at 10:42 but it took until 14:22 fpr the bronze one to arrive. Time lag doesn't matter with this sort of announcement, but could be useful with sales or special deal announcements.

Not as depressed as I thought I would be over the changes - I like flying BA and we tend to pay for F or J overseas flights and then use points for domestic award flights, so not sure we will be that affected - time will tell. I do think it is a stategic mistake to encourage people to fly on other airlines though. We have been pretty hard core Qantas people, but the more you end up flying on Cathay or Malaysian or whatever, the possibility increases that you will prefer them to Qantas and book them for other flights. A bit like finding the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

We have 1 gold member, 3 silver and 1 bronze in the family - all using my e-mail address, so it is always funny to see the e-mails come in. The Gold one arrived at 10:21 the 3 silver at 10:42 but it took until 14:22 fpr the bronze one to arrive. Time lag doesn't matter with this sort of announcement, but could be useful with sales or special deal announcements.

Woohoo - we have an unpublished SG benefit: receive QF 'enhancement' emails before lower status PAX

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I don't agree, people who are flying LCCs now used to drive, take the bus or train. Certainly I did as a teen/young 20 something. $90 BNE to CNS on the train vs $300+ by air. Easy.

And yet there are plenty of WPs here complaining about $10 increases in fares. So, not all price sensitive people travel by car/train/coach.

There is a market for people who would pay $300 to fly (I did as a student, after experiencing the 24 hour hell it is to travel on train/coach SYD-ADL), but would happily pay $100 for an LCC to take them SYD-ADL and forgo some benefits.

Judging by the posts here, there are many who are on BFD policies with their companies to. That eats into QF's bottom line, even if the pax are not going to LCCs - they could be going to DJ (domestic) or SQ/EK/DL/UA/TG/etc. for ex-Aus travel

 

[Flying mermaid]

Woohoo - we have an unpublished SG benefit: receive QF 'enhancement' emails before lower status PAX

At least they always get this one right - the e-mails have never arrived out of order (unlike priority tagged luggage ).

 

[dajop]

surely its singapore? but who is the partner?

At one stage there was talk that the co-owners of Jetstar Asia would be potential partners of a new airline that QF were looking to set up. All speculation of course.

Talking of speculation, with the aircraft order cancellations etc, is it certain there will be now only 2 services a day to LHR, or is there room for three ... the day time option from Asia to London is quite a neat way of getting there having done it twice ex HKG (NZ, QF) and once ex-SIN (SQ)... wonder if that is on the cards with the o/night connections from Australia that could also feed the new carrier (if based in SIN) + Jetstar Asia ...... no I guess not SYD curfew kills that concept.

 

[Bob]

We have 1 gold member, 3 silver and 1 bronze in the family - all using my e-mail address, so it is always funny to see the e-mails come in. The Gold one arrived at 10:21 the 3 silver at 10:42 but it took until 14:22 fpr the bronze one to arrive. Time lag doesn't matter with this sort of announcement, but could be useful with sales or special deal announcements.

Still waiting...

 

[YQY]

Tone of this forum

Noticed this quote on another forum site.

"Brand Management 101: Install an Irish bloke to stuff it all up!"

Ouch!

I don't find comments like this amusing or other comments on Joyce's heritage/accent etc.

Would more people be outraged if the quote was

"Brand Management 101: Install an Indian bloke to stuff it all up!" or "Brand Management 101: Install an Iraqui bloke to stuff it all up!"

I'm surprised RedRoo continues to post in this forum given some of the offensive and outrageous comments being made on this forum.

 

[medhead]

And yet there are plenty of WPs here complaining about $10 increases in fares. So, not all price sensitive people travel by car/train/coach.

There is a market for people who would pay $300 to fly (I did as a student, after experiencing the 24 hour hell it is to travel on train/coach SYD-ADL), but would happily pay $100 for an LCC to take them SYD-ADL and forgo some benefits.

Judging by the posts here, there are many who are on BFD policies with their companies to. That eats into QF's bottom line, even if the pax are not going to LCCs - they could be going to DJ (domestic) or SQ/EK/DL/UA/TG/etc. for ex-Aus travel

Budget and price sensitive are 2 separate things. Every traveller is price sensitive and would rather pay $10 less. But budget means as low as possible and also will not pay more to fly, or to fly qantas. Budget says it costs me $140 in petrol to drive SYD-ADL there is 4 of us, so I'm not flying if the airfares are more than $50 each.

 

[ajw373]

There are 3 flights a week with QF ADL-SIN and vv. 3/7 for direct flights and 4/7 via SYD or MEL. That's the point, it is more likely that I have to fly via somewhere in Oz first. So why not just fly SQ or MH direct and cut out the middle man. As for the "same group" thing, minor point but it is a separate airline according to Joyce. But more importantly as I said that is good for access to asia, but that is only good for the new airline. Qantas international become little more than a service to that Asian hub. So again not good for expansion of Qantas international.

That is no worse than it is today, and who knows if this works then maybe the traffic the hub generates means Qantas can steal business from Singapore etc which could mean daily (or more) flights from Adelaide and elsewhere (maybe even Canberra where to leave this country I always have to go via somewhere else) to the offshore hub.

As for the same group, Red Roo has already confirmed the new premium airline will earn Qantas points etc so to me that is a very clear advantage over having to fly another airline altogether. And yes it does look like Qantas international will become a feeder into an Asian hub, as well as feeder into America, South America and Europe. Is that such a bad thing? Qantas does not have a hope in hell of being able to service the multitude of destinations that these hubs will provide from many cities in Australia, so why not provide a high quality, and hopefully higher frequency (for places like Adelaide etc) service to this location? In fact the last point about higher frequencies is where I reckon there is a chance that 787's will appear in Qantas colours on international routes. Ie a smaller more efficient aircraft feeding offshore, just like Thai and Singapore do already.

 

[ajw373]

Hard to see anything but negativity in this announcement and another step closer to the end of QF and the continued expansion of Jetstar.

Problem: Qantas does not have a desirable international market share
Solution: Reduce mainline QF international flights and create a new airline to service new routes with single aisle A320s.

I want to be able to have a choice of QF flights into major Asian cities and adding more codesharing, creating a new airline in Asia or transferring routes to Jetstar is definitely not the solution.

Actually if anything this announcement probably signals the end of the expansion/threat of Jetstar out of Australia anyway. With Jetstar being confined to LCC flying, the new carrier doing premium flying in Asia, connected to and within Australia by Qantas. Your theory about the A320's is probably it bit off the mark as they don't have the legs to fly to the major population centres in the east coast of Australia.