Building a stronger Qantas

[TiredOldFlyer]

Qantas earns over $1billion per year from Frequent Flyer points - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business TravellerFYI.

 

[medhead]

That is no worse than it is today, and who knows if this works then maybe the traffic the hub generates means Qantas can steal business from Singapore etc which could mean daily (or more) flights from Adelaide and elsewhere (maybe even Canberra where to leave this country I always have to go via somewhere else) to the offshore hub.

As for the same group, Red Roo has already confirmed the new premium airline will earn Qantas points etc so to me that is a very clear advantage over having to fly another airline altogether. And yes it does look like Qantas international will become a feeder into an Asian hub, as well as feeder into America, South America and Europe. Is that such a bad thing? Qantas does not have a hope in hell of being able to service the multitude of destinations that these hubs will provide from many cities in Australia, so why not provide a high quality, and hopefully higher frequency (for places like Adelaide etc) service to this location? In fact the last point about higher frequencies is where I reckon there is a chance that 787's will appear in Qantas colours on international routes. Ie a smaller more efficient aircraft feeding offshore, just like Thai and Singapore do already.

When you put it like that of course it sounds fine. I just don't see any vision to expand QFi even in the role of feeding hubs. Joyce has clearly stated that QFi is getting limited capital investment until they make a decent return on that capital.

I feel that management have written off QFi. I think this is supported by Joyce's continued reference to QFi and the distinct being made with domestic. Surely qantas is one business. He told us this morning that QFi lost $200 mil. But qantas as a whole made $160mil and how much of the QFF profit is due to Qantas airline. Insisting of singling out QFi and treating it as a stand alone entity does not bode well for it.

I don't find comments like this amusing or other comments on Joyce's heritage/accent etc.

yep I a bit surprised by those comments given the long and proud association Australia has with Ireland.

 

[markis10]

Qantas earns over $1billion per year from Frequent Flyer points - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business TravellerFYI.

Old news, they have been doing so since 09.

 

[pauly7]

I don't find comments like this amusing or other comments on Joyce's heritage/accent etc.

Would more people be outraged if the quote was

"Brand Management 101: Install an Indian bloke to stuff it all up!" or "Brand Management 101: Install an Iraqui bloke to stuff it all up!"

I'm surprised RedRoo continues to post in this forum given some of the offensive and outrageous comments being made on this forum.

Totally agree. Really appalling.

Can't we have just one thread on this forum that focuses on discussing facts rather than name calling and rubbish...

I think AJ is making some tough, very long overdue decisions that ultimately will hopefully secure a bigger brighter future for the group and the QF brand. Some people won't see the forest for the trees - given, but lay off the personal attacks.

Also thanks to Red Roo for all the answers and feedback.

 

[TiredOldFlyer]

Old news, they have been doing so since 09.

Just reminding everyone - and perhaps some that were not aware.

I would have thought that with the "New Spirit" more award seats, particularly International, would be a big step forward in building a stronger
Qantas. Those of us that like to play the "points game" do not look kindly on QF. Many other airlines seem to have a much fairer (read moral, ethical etc)
award system.

Not much good having FF awards if they cannot be used. Building a strong customer base is important to any business. Service is an important
part - and I think that Qantas are letting their customers down badly in this area.

"Its not what you do that's important - its how you do it !"

As a cafe owner told me recently "I can serve customers nearly anything as long as I serve it well"

 

[kamchatsky]

OK, for everyone who are very negative about this announcement, take a deep breath, and read the following:


It is called Stages of Grief. There are 5 stages:


Denial: "No, not me!"
Anger: "Why me?"
Bargaining: "If I do this, you will do that"
Depression: "It's really happened, oh no!"
Acceptance: "Yep, got over it, and I will not try to compare with the hey days 10 years ago"

Kübler-Ross model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


For me I would have not have this because I think it is generally a good thing. But for everyone who are negative,
yes dear, it will take some time .....


As for Red Roo not answering that much here, I think he/she is tied up with what can be answered at this stage. I think everyone should give Red Roo a break, it is better than before, when there was NOBODY from QF participate in the forum.

 

[drewbles]

I was discussing last night with someone, the new "Premium" Airline they're planning.

The conversation went something like:

Me: Is it just me, or does it seem strange to start a "premium" airline using A320's?
Them: Nope, I agree

Which leads me to the question, are narrow body aircraft ever going to 'cut it' as a 'premium' carriers choice of plane?

I know J is obviously available on narrow body jets, and indeed BA run BA1/2 as A319's in all J configuration, but will pax accept them over widebody which seem to have been synonymous with space, comfort and luxury?

 

[Justchecking]

I know J is obviously available on narrow body jets, and indeed BA run BA1/2 as A319's in all J configuration, but will pax accept them over widebody which seem to have been synonymous with space, comfort and luxury?

Narrow bodies are fine when the flight time is under 2hrs. Over that limit and with a full ship it's considerably less comfortable. Number of loo's, available catering and amenities etc. Just ask anyone who's done a transcontinental on a 737. So as long as they don't plan to fly more than 2hrs from SIN they should be fine....oops! That kind of limits them to SE Asia now doesn't it?

 

[connieguy]

It annoys me too - as a proud Aussie who travels all over the world and who promotes all that is great about Australia wherever I am in the world I was always proud to tell people that Qantas was truly one of the world's great airlines, and it was something that all Australians were very proud of. My job takes me to far-flung, off the beaten track places where I am far away from the comforts of civilisation and I am often leaving these places physically and mentally exhausted, but then I would fly from the middle of nowhere to somewhere like Joburg and the moment I stepped onto that Qantas flight back to Australia a lot of that exhaustion would just fade away as I knew that for the next fourteen hours I would be looked after by a group of Australians who really cared about my welfare, and that the guys up front were the very best pilots in the world which really helps a lot when you are a nervous flyer like I am.

These days Qantas is just a fading shadow of it's former self that vainly still tries to claim that it is the Spirit of Australia.

Except for the nervous bit, for years that was me. No matter where I was I could not wait to step foot inside the QF 747 and feel / know I was home. Now that is all gone.

New Spirit of Australia? That is just so disgusting that AJ should be stopped from saying it.

I think the Asian hub with most QF flights terminating there probably looks OK on paper or in an Excel spreadsheet but it fails to consider the human element. I mean why fly onward from Sin/Bkk/Hkg on another airline to your real long haul destination? People will just book the whole flight with whatever other airline that can carry them all the way. QF has said those hub flights will still be Aussie crewed and flown, so where is the cost savings for QFi. All I see happening is less Paxs, less revenue for a significantly reduced QFi and no reduction in costs.

 

[777]

Which leads me to the question, are narrow body aircraft ever going to 'cut it' as a 'premium' carriers choice of plane?

Which leads me to the interesting question that i don't think anyone has actually answered: where are all 787s headed? Obviously many are headed for Jetstar but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them eventually end up flying in Qantasia (or whatever it's called) colours and picking up a lot of the routes in an out of Australia once flown by QF.

 

[N860CR]

Perhaps they need a new catch phrase? This "new spirit" thing has been dragged out again and again over the years. I can remember 10 years ago an ad campain that focused on "there's a new spirit in the air" etc.

Seems everytime they want to change things (for better or worse) it's just called a new "spirit". Perhaps people have started to see through that.

 

[wandersen]

Red Roo - I'd like to know what is going to happen to award bookings on the cancelled flights. I have an F booking on QF 29/30 to London in May 2012. The timetable now shows QF29 terminating at HKG on these dates, and no F....

 

[Leumas]

Which leads me to the question, are narrow body aircraft ever going to 'cut it' as a 'premium' carriers choice of plane?

I think the real question is what does 'premium' mean? At the moment, it just seems you get a checked bag and something resembling 'food' while in the air... Don't expect laps of luxury...

 

[dajop]

Except for the nervous bit, for years that was me. No matter where I was I could not wait to step foot inside the QF 747 and feel / know I was home. Now that is all gone.

Can you tell me is the 747 bit or the QF bit that most appeals to you? If it is stepping foot inside a QF plane (whether 330, 747 or 380 ... I don't understand your comment "Now that is all gone"??? A bit dramatic perhaps? The only place thus far announced that has "gone" is EZE, but if you need to travel home from there on QF it's only a short hop across to SCL which replaces it. Or am I missing something are the other destinations hidden in the QF announcement?

 

[medhead]

Which leads me to the interesting question that i don't think anyone has actually answered: where are all 787s headed? Obviously many are headed for Jetstar but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them eventually end up flying in Qantasia (or whatever it's called) colours and picking up a lot of the routes in an out of Australia once flown by QF.

It seems obvious, doesn't it. IMO QFi will be the last to get any 787s.

 

[drewbles]

Narrow bodies are fine when the flight time is under 2hrs. Over that limit and with a full ship it's considerably less comfortable. Number of loo's, available catering and amenities etc. Just ask anyone who's done a transcontinental on a 737. So as long as they don't plan to fly more than 2hrs from SIN they should be fine....oops! That kind of limits them to SE Asia now doesn't it?

Exactly my line of thinking.

Playing devils advocate...

a) QF introduces new Premium Asia-based airline
b) QF delays order of 787's for a year or two (baring the ones that are coming to JQ and the A330's that go back from JQ to QF)
c) QF announces closure of some routes for QF mainline
d) QF announces that 787's are going to new Premium Airline
e) QF announces 'new and exciting enhancements" to the "QF Group of Airlines" and new routes for Premium Airline. These new routes just happen to be the same, or substantially similar to those axed in c), probably 12-24 months earlier.

Am I totally out of line in my thinking?

From what I can see, this is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors attempt to get cheaper labour (not saying off-shoring, just cheaper labour) and wait for QF mainline staff to go away and retire, only to be replaced with other cheaper staff. There's that new spirit in the air, it's the young'uns vodka!

</pessimist>

*edit*

Oh and for those simply wanting a laugh... [video=youtube;_NRKrmEjVNM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NRKrmEjVNM[/video]

(ignoring the fact that the user who posts these is pretty clearly a QF Pilot Union Stooge, it's still a funny take on it).

 

[connieguy]

Perhaps they need a new catch phrase? This "new spirit" thing has been dragged out again and again over the years. I can remember 10 years ago an ad campain that focused on "there's a new spirit in the air" etc.

Seems everytime they want to change things (for better or worse) it's just called a new "spirit". Perhaps people have started to see through that.

As I see it, under the AJ plan, QF will become a smallish regional player. Just flying to the closest airport on the other edge of the pond of that surrounds Australia. No longer will QF be an truly International airline. As this reduces the number and distance that QF metal will fly, QF FFers will be disadvantaged over the FFers of the onward metal FFer program.

I see this change as a loss for Australia and a loss for QF FFers that use the advantage gained on QF medal. Sad event really.

For what it is worth, my son was a RAAF Orion pilot who tried to get a job with CX. Why CX? Because CX paid their 747 pilots more than QF paid their 747 pilots. So go figure with what we are told. What was the CX profit last year? Did someone say A$1.8 billion?

Hey maybe the real agenda is to reduce the value of QF so much as to make it a target to go private?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Red Roo - I'd like to know what is going to happen to award bookings on the cancelled flights. I have an F booking on QF 29/30 to London in May 2012. The timetable now shows QF29 terminating at HKG on these dates, and no F....

unless you really needed to go to hong kong... the best thing about this is that you will be re-routed on another qantas service... meaning first class of the A380! in anticipation of this announcement I booked several award tickets in first for my family on the qf29/30... you will NOT need to rely on award inventory being available on the a380 as essentially you have a contract with qf that it's own terms and conditions will allow either a full refund or re-route on another qf service...

note that it is likely that only ONE change onto the a380 will be allowed... if you need to change your flights after that then normal award availability will apply.

 

[harvyk]

I don't find comments like this amusing or other comments on Joyce's heritage/accent etc.

Would more people be outraged if the quote was

"Brand Management 101: Install an Indian bloke to stuff it all up!" or "Brand Management 101: Install an Iraqui bloke to stuff it all up!"

I'm surprised RedRoo continues to post in this forum given some of the offensive and outrageous comments being made on this forum.

I agree that Joyce's heritage should not come into play (but you can feel a "but" coming into it can't you)
but him standing there delivering a "we're Australian as Australian can be" in a non Australian accent is something that nonews posters could potentially lap up as "proof" that QF is no longer Australian.

Remember QF's brand (I've listed out what the brand really is a few times now), and at the top it's "we're Australian and only use aussies where possible, having AJ deliever the message in a non Australian accent does dilute the brand (as sad as it is).

As a side note it's not just Australia that is like this, most of the world thinks that the stuff their own country produces or stuff which their own country does is the best, and often OS brands will leap on that with their marketing (within their own country)

 

[serfty]

...
On another note, and im no expert on the AA way, but as I understand it, a lot of them (read: most) aren't complimentary upgrades. AA use 500mile coupons that you as a OW elite don't get. So again, why should you score a freebie when AA silvers are redeeming coupons? ...

Actually, most would be complmentary. AAdvantage "Executive Platinum"¹ get complimentary space available upgrades. These are assessed before those "Platinum"² and "Gold"³ who would use 500 mile 'stickers'.

More here: Upgrades (AA) - FlyerGuide Wiki

¹ "Executive Platinum" is oneworld Emerald
² "Platinum" is oneworld Sapphire
³ "Gold" is oneworld Ruby