Bumped Onto Jetstar To Japan

[jaxjax]

Why don't we have this kind of discussion about other discount carriers?

The problem as I see it with JQ (Dom or Int) is that it will be forever viewed as QantasLite. If you're at a regional airport and flying JQ then this perception is most visible when the checkin, baggage and ground crew are all QF staff. And this story furthers this belief.

Rather than acknowledging this perception and embracing it, QF seem hell-bent on ignoring it. The cynic in me suggests that's because JQ will be sold off at some time in the (not too distant) future and QF wish to distance themselves from JQ, in an operational sense, as a much as possible.

However, there are many things that could be done to improve the service at JQ utilising the capabilities of QF. Given they're largely operating similar equipment on similar routes what bugs people the most?

For someone that is largely forced to travel JQ domestically to visit family (MEL-LST) and QF the other half of the journey (PER-MEL due to PER-AVV with JQ) I'm annoyed by the lack of interlining. I've already proven it's possible to check baggage through from PER-LST with a mixed QF/JQ itinerary - so why isn't Qantas utilising this ability?!? Surely it would mean lower costs (don't have to check me in twice - don't have to double handle baggage) and greater interoperability between the two airlines.

[Edit - a 2nd thought] If JQ wish to operate a true point-to-point LCC model why aren't all Melbourne flights out of either Tullamarine or Avalon? Because QF wish to double-dip. They want to hand low-profit, short haul routes over to JQ (MEL-LST-HBA), while still allowing connection the more profitable high capacity routes on the mainline (MEL-SYD-BNE).

I have no problem flying JQ otherwise on shorthaul flights (I've managed to avoid anything longer than an hour and a half) and other issues have been resolved over time (allocated seating etc). If we're going to be seeing a lot more of JQ as a QF subsiduary in our skies surely they should maximise its potential as an LCC rather than give in to negative perceptions?

Cheers,

jaX

 

[d15.in.oz]

there has been a material failure by Q in the performance of this contract...

Personally, I think QFF has tried to accommodate you, firstly on a flight to NRT, and then on the JQ direct SYD-KIX service…

However, I understand that you are angry, and the passion you place on the value of your QFF points. I recognise that you don’t see the QF & JQ Economy products as equals. There are a wealth of opinions and information posted in this thread advising you of their similarities, as well as their differences.

I know that comparing airline service is difficult. Particularly when, what one airline calls Business Class, another refers to as Economy Plus, and an alternate sells as First Class…

But now, it’s time to bite the bullet, if only for the sake of your wife and to ensure that you can approach your journey from a positive mind set, and perhaps enjoy it or at least relax during it.

So, how are you going to get to Osaka?

Obviously, not in StarClass (QFF has rejected this)… Not by asking for a routing via HKG on another QFF partner legacy carrier (you have rejected this)…

JQ 17 will get you there, on the most direct route!



This Internet forum is a great place to get advice from people, to help understand what "may be reasonable” in this type of negotiation, and what “might be expected”… but in the end if you go in all guns blazing, you won’t achieve your main objective – Osaka!

 

[NM]

36000 FF pts means an economy ticket valued at $1017(Red e deal) or $1252(Supersaver) or $1595 (Flexisaver). If I could take the Sydney-Osaka flight on Q on the day after we travel (April 6) then only the Flexisaver ($1595) is available now.

If I had redeemed the 36000 on Jetstar in the first place, then I would be buying a ticket which is valued at $370 or $1040. (Starclass is $1340)

You would have more credibility if you compared the same type of fare. The Qantas economy VKBB1 fare of $1258 is a return fare. The JetStar StarClass fare of $1348 is one-way, or $2696 return. Both these fares are ex-taxes and surcharges. Even a Qantas Y fare (YKFF1) is only $2432 return.

It is only appropriate to compare FF award values with the lowest fares offered for the flight, not the fares available when all cheap fares are sold out. The QF flights CNS-KIX on 4th and 6th April have no award availability, in fact there is only 1 seat for sale in economy on 6th April and none available on 4th April. If making fare cost comparisons then you really need to compare the fares available at the time the FF awards were booked, and we can be quite certain that V class was available when X class was also available at the time of booking.

I believe Qantas' offer of economy award seats on the JetStar service is fair and reasonable. I do not believe your demand for StarClass seats is fair or reasonable.

 

[ricco]

NM - thank you for the post.
What is the source of your information on these fares?
I am using the Qantas website and I just checked the Sydney Osaka one way fare and it is $1252.
If you are using the same source or another, I would be pleased to know what that is so I may be better informed.

 

[d15.in.oz]

It is only appropriate to compare FF award values with the lowest fares offered for the flight, not the fares available when all cheap fares are sold out...

I believe the cheapest fare ever offered on that JQ flight was A$87 one way (plus fuel fines, taxes, charges etc...)

 

[JohnK]

In this case, you have the option to be rebooked onto another carrier ( in the same class of service ) or to be refunded the purchase price

I don't think QF offered a booking on CX in the same class of service.

This is what QF have offered; they have offered travel in the economy section of the Jetstar alternative.

I think any frequent flyers aspiration is to book award seats on QF and be downgraded to JQi economy. I can't wait for the day it will happen to me. I really look forward to the experience.

If you are not happy with the alternative then take a refund and book another service

Booked a long time ago on QF using points. What is the chance of getting a decent priced airfare at this late stage? Not much. Another copout from QF/JQi that really needs to be knocked on the head before the idea gets off the ground.

There is absolutely no reason for the airline to provide travel in a higher class of service on the alternative service

I really, really hope that your next TIP flight on QF/BA in FIRST class is replaced by a JQ only service at the last minute with only JQi economy available. You thought you had problems trying to wiggle out of paying 2,500 points extra because TIP was not on the list of available award ticket online destinations....

 

[Dave Noble]

=
I really, really hope that your next TIP flight on QF/BA in FIRST class is replaced by a JQ only service at the last minute with only JQi economy available. You thought you had problems trying to wiggle out of paying 2,500 points extra because TIP was not on the list of available award ticket online destinations....

Yawn, please pop off and find if there are any lives available. There is no relevance to any trips which I might have done on paid flexible tickets when it was an easily accessible starting point for trips in regards to whether QF met their obligations for an award ticket; the passenger stated that it was critical to get to their destination that day and QF booked them on JQ such that they will get there in time

As pointed out by NM, the seating on the A332s is the same as when operated by QF; as a QF passenger he gets the meals et al ; I don't see how it is a significant downgrade for the one way journey

Dave

 

[dajop]

Having watched this thread for some time, I think ricco your biggest complaint is not being told about the changes in a timely manner.

Given you access the meals & a drink for free, I don't think your in flight experience will differ significantly from the QF experience unless you were going to quaff a decent quantity of alcohol on the flight. (although you think they'd throw in the blanket/pillows free of charge!)

The QF 767 you would have been travelling on is probably not the most modern beast in the skies today, and sometimes the mainscreen on the 767's can be difficult to see at the best of times. At least now you have the opportunity (albeit at a cost) to access some AVOD - on the 767 all you would have had a chance to view was a movie or two, a few music videos and reruns of second rate comedies.

Not that it is strictly relevant here, I flew to Japan in '05 and had a choice between SQ via SIN or a QF 767 to NRT for only $100 more. Chose the SQ option, knowing full well the service, drinks, entertainment on SQ 747s would be vastly superior. The QF 767 service I personally rate as pretty close to LCC long haul standard anyway.

Also what happend to your return flight? You keep referring to a paltry refund of 6,000 pts out of 144,000 but surely it is out of 72,000 points - unless put on JQ on the way back as well? FWIW, I value 6,000 pts at around $60-$90 and perhaps 6,000 pts per pax may have been more appropriate, but hey take what you can.

Whatever the case, don't let this ruin your holiday.

 

[NM]

NM - thank you for the post.
What is the source of your information on these fares?
I am using the Qantas website and I just checked the Sydney Osaka one way fare and it is $1252.
If you are using the same source or another, I would be pleased to know what that is so I may be better informed.

The Qantas web site will only show the fares for a specific date. And for the 4th or 6th of April, that will be for the one remaining economy seat on the flight that day. Naturally that one remaining seat is being offered only for the highest fare classes. I used ExpertFlyer to see what fares are being offered by Qantas for travel on that route on those dates, regardless of availability. That shows the fares I stated. Yes the V fares are currently sold out on those days, but they would have been available at the time you booked your X class seats.

But the fares are not relevant to FF awards. Qantas FF award tickets are not based on the monetary cost of the fares on the specific route. They are based on the distance zone into which the flight falls and the cabin in which you are to fly. There is nothing in the QF FF terms and conditions that says different routes cost different amounts of points, and the published tables clearly state the different points rates for different carriers. So as far as a Qantas FF award ticket is concerned, QF Economy and JQ economy cost exactly the same. Nowhere in the Qantas Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions (at least as far as I can see) says that a JQ economy seat has a lower points cost, or that Star Class award seats cost the same as Qantas Economy for travel in the same zone.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

I really, really hope that your next TIP flight on QF/BA in FIRST class is replaced by a JQ only service at the last minute with only JQi economy available. You thought you had problems trying to wiggle out of paying 2,500 points extra because TIP was not on the list of available award ticket online destinations....

JohnK,

I think this has gone on far enough now. For someone, who by their own admission, has never travelled on JQi you seem to have a deepfelt feeling of the inferiority of the product that appears to border on the irrational.

As others have done a point-by-point comparison of the two products, you have descended to this sort of argument. It's simply unbecoming of you.

As for the upgrade to StarClass - I don't think this is going to happen. Do you think QANTAS will upgrade every person that was originally booked in Y into StarClass? There wouldn't be room.

Since QANTAS is unable to fulfil the original terms of the contract, then per the contract, the OP is entitled to a refund. I realise that QANTAS dropped the ball in not informing them of the change, and as such should do something. But flight wise, I don't see how JQi could be as bad as you say it is.

 

[ricco]

For what it is worth, Qantas paid Jetstar for two Jetsaver seats on this flight for us - $443 each ($284 for the ticket plus $159 surcharge, taxes etc.)

Make what you will of that.

 

[NM]

Just one more thing to keep in mind is that the CNS-KIX flight on the "QF 767" is actually operated by Australian Airlines, not Qantas. The aircraft is painted in Qantas colours with a QF flights number, but operated by AO tech and cabin crew.

Not too long ago (and I don't know how long ago ricco booked his flights) it would have been operated by a single-class orange coloured ex-Qantas 767 aircraft using Australian Airlines crew. Australian Airlines was the first attempt by Qantas to create a Low Cost Carrier subsidiary (along with JetConnect for 737 Trans-Tasman and NZ ops). At that time it had an AO flight number and been offered for QF FF awards at the same points cost as any QF flight in the same award zone category. The change to a QF flight number from AO flight number happened around July 2006 if memory serves correctly.

Here is a photo of an AO aircraft operating to KIX. And the inside of the single-class 767 config. This is what CNS airport looked like back when AO flights were operating.

The CNS-KIX flight is still operated by a Australian Airlines crew, but the aircraft has now returned to the QF paint scheme and is back to 2-class configuration. The flight now has a QF flight number instead of the AO flight number.

So it would seem that in less than 12 months, the CNS-KIX flights have gone through several changes, from single-class 767 of AO, to two-class 767 of Qantas operated by AO, now to 2-class A330 of JetStar.

 

[Rampage]

JohnK,

I think this has gone on far enough now. For someone, who by their own admission, has never travelled on JQi you seem to have a deepfelt feeling of the inferiority of the product that appears to border on the irrational.

As others have done a point-by-point comparison of the two products, you have descended to this sort of argument. It's simply unbecoming of you.

As for the upgrade to StarClass - I don't think this is going to happen. Do you think QANTAS will upgrade every person that was originally booked in Y into StarClass? There wouldn't be room.

Since QANTAS is unable to fulfil the original terms of the contract, then per the contract, the OP is entitled to a refund. I realise that QANTAS dropped the ball in not informing them of the change, and as such should do something. But flight wise, I don't see how JQi could be as bad as you say it is.

For me, my perception of Jetstar being an inferior product to Qantas is due to the prices of the two products. Thats natural consumer behaviour, although I suppose in reality there may be little difference once on board (and I get the point youre making).